Rant: Guild Only and "we're ok" Groups

[old.Witchunter]

What's wrong with these people?

I've noticed an increase in the number of people not letting you into their group, because it's "Guild Only". This I can partially understand, but I still think these people have lost the plot.

Worst still, are the "we're ok" groups. 4-5 man groups who won't let anyone else enter.



What annoys me is, most of the people doing this are experianced players with alts(I'm currently levelling a low level alt and this trend 'has' spread to pre-lv10 players


If I start a group, I'll let in people regardless of class, guild or even if we're doing fine as we are.


Personally, I'm blacklisting players and if too many people from the same guild hold the same 'guild only' attidute, I'll black list and refuse to group, or help them if they're dying.



Indeed, one of the Infiltrators in our guild made me laugh, when a group wanted him to join them in RvR, he reminded them how they refused to group him in Lyonesses, so why should he join them now


I can't care much for people like that and I'd suggest anyone who feels the same way should blacklist these players, so mabye they'll realise being an arse doesn't help their game

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

when you reach the highlvls and has to xp on tanglers and gobbos, you will see why you cant have a group of 8 players, since the xp will be crap then, and 3-4 players can kill the mobs without that much trouble.
Yes I agree not getting to join a group because its guild only or dont need more players is not much fun, but one must simply accept this and either join another group or start one self.
The idea of blacklisting people because they cant have you in the group because they're fine or guild only is repulsive.

 

[Tasans]

Guild-only: We have arranged a guild hunt we are 6 and we have two members coming, so why would i let anyone else join the group when i have 2 friends inc?
Also looting. I would prefer to have a trusted g members in my group that would give me without second thought an item or have a stranger that would bitch over it?(edit)
In my level i have grouped with plenty non guild guys and i generaly know who to let in a group and who not(never to group list) but when i have a spare spot and someone from /gu asks me, then later another 1-2 lvls higher come and ask i would say simply no i have a friend coming.
We are ok: 4 tanks and a shaman chain killing low orange scavs, why would i let other tanks in? If we a healer is lfg i join him then ask the previous guys (if they were polite not smartasses) if they want to join us now that we are going for serious xp.
I fail to understand the error of my thoughts.
(2nd edit) Stupid mistake

 

[[TNN]Aardvark]

Originally posted by Witchunter
What annoys me is, most of the people doing this are experianced players with alts(I'm currently levelling a low level alt and this trend 'has' spread to pre-lv10 players

Tangler groups, fine. Pre level 10? They can piss off and die as far as I'm concerned if they do this.

 

[old.Kihon]

As I have found out to my shame its far too easy to see only one side of a situation.

If a group of friends want to hunt with each other, in a environment which is bordeline xp wise, they may not want someone they dont know in the group, as it will also mean the group will either get unsatisfactory xp, or will need to find a different spot.

Now one POV of this is - so what? They can find a better spot. But the other side could be, what if the group is HAPPY where it is? they get to spend time chatting, while killing mobs with low risk, and still progress their chars?

 

[oldnick]

Had a funny one the other day

Asked to join a 4-5man tangler group and was told "were fine"

I got my 0.2 bubs to lvl with another kind group and went off to join RvR.

On the way i come across two of the previous group dead by the telamons

Oh if only I had the guts to laugh and run off, but nooo i rezzed them. Then i meet them at the grouping point for RvR

Nick

 

[Tasans]

They can find a better spot

In my lvl that doesnt apply. We can have a 4 tank group getting decent xp from some mobs and when other tanks ask me to join i simply say no. This is because another tank wont mean the difference between moving to a harder mob area since in Mid good xp areas baf like crazy, so we would need a shaman(rare) or even better a healer(rarer). So why bother we are ok

And yes i know im trolling the boards im off to play the game im talking about

 

[Vell]

I'm not really sure I understand what your problem is.

Many different people play this game, from many different backgrounds, and many different reasons.

Maybe you stumbled across a group of real-life friends who just want to play together.
Maybe the group really doesn't need anyone else, if it's doing fine as it is.
Maybe you are not an appropriate level to join in, or the wrong class. No point in too many people doing the same role.
Some guild do actually organise 'guild-only' events, for whatever reason they want to.
Maybe they have friends on the way, or are waiting for people to log in.
Hell, maybe you have even been blacklisted by someone already in the group, and that's why you're getting turned down.

Of course there are guilds who do this. Why shouldn't they? Who are you to tell them how they must play the game?

And then there are guilds (points to sig) who will quite happily group with others, as long as they do not make a nuisance of themselves, and aren't waiting for people.

It's up to the individual, or group, how they play the game. Not you. Sorry.

 

[old.blackonyx]

What a load of rubbish.

I have a 40+ Char and I am levelling 2 alts at the moment. I regularly XP with a Healer friend and quite frankly I don't want anyone else in the group why the hell should I.

I am an extremely sociable person in game but with the Alts I know how the healer plays (We have played various RP games over the last 2 years) and he knows how I play the 2 of us can tank Oranges and build nice XP to get to about lvl20 when it makes more sense to group play without one of us using an AE Cos it looks cool (Yes it happened). To be honest as an older player I get fed up of some of the attitude which often finds its place with the lower level chars.

As for the Guild thing, again why not I am in an excellent Guild which has regular multi group hunts, many of the members are pretty good OL friends now and a lot of the chat banter is specific to historical events so there is a good chance a non guild member would not enjoy it any way. But that is what a guild is all about helping each other, enjoying each others company so if we organise a guild hunting trip then don't bitch about it, organise your own, speak to your GM or join another guild!

Flame away

 

[old.Andromalius]

There's a good reason in my guild we sometimes do not accept non guildies: we keep group spots for guildies we know will log soon.
Otherwise, we have no problem grouping even nightshades or rangers (wrell, as long as there are not four of them in the group already lol)

We had fun yesterday showing the Cursed Forest to a lvl 28 non guildie we kept out of harm. (He only died once due to an add that resisted all CC attempts and one shot him).

Basically, there are two kinds of gameplay we have:

-Ok time to get a lvl, we go for efficiency. If 5 players get the cap without downtime and a sixth would make us go under it, sorry, but the XP share is what we're about tonight. If taking someone in keeps us above the cap, no problem.

-We're on the "have fun" setting, please come along! I have no problem taking a lowbie on EZ rampages, as long as I do not have to rez him every 5 minutes.

 

[Verena]

This is complete bullshit. So what if someone says no to you, maybe I missed something but did we just loose the right to hunt with a few friends? Hell it doesn't even have to be a group of good friends but if I want to say no, I say no. None of your whining will change that.

People like you are the problem, not the group who refuses you. I've hunted with good friends too but why should I be forced to take someone into my group when I just don't feel like it. The reason doesn't even have to be that the exp will drop but it can just as well be another reason. Get refused? Move on and find another group or start one yourself where you can apply all your silly rules.

Blacklisting people who say no to you? Pffff, get a life.....

 

[Flimgoblin]

I normally just go 'what the heck, tag along if you want' - but that's why I have my 'Seeking All' flag on in the group panel.

I can see why some people might not want to lose their little 4 person group.

You're just getting settled in, everyone knows what they're doing. Suddenly you're 5 people, you're going to have to move. Cue arguments about what to kill.

Also, if you've been grouping with people you get along with you can be loathe to get someone else in incase they don't get on. If you don't know them you can't tell if they're going to be a loot-hoarder or an AE-happy type.

Just because people have a group with spaces free doesn't mean you have a right to one of them.

Use 'looking for group' and 'find'. If someone want's you they'll have it flagged.

If they don't have it flagged then don't be surprised if they don't suddenly change their mind when you run up and jump around them.

 

[Bleri McThrust]

There are times when you could approach me and ask to join the group Im in and get a no sometimes a yes.

We could be 3,4,5,6 or 7. Could be all guildies or not. And the reason you were refused could be many.

There could be 4 of us just chatting and killing while we chat. Not going for the exp but just enjoying the company.

We could be 6 waiting for 2 more (who could be guildies or maybe not) specifically setting up a group to help someone with either exp or items.

Maybe a group is after something particularly hard and only wants memebers that have grouped together regularly and who know the way each other fights?

We could even be hunting for exp and invite you in with open arms.

The reason for acceptance or refusal into a group are numerous. Refusal shouldnt be taken personally.

 

[Jupitus]

I think it's up to the players to decide and the person wanting to join should just accept the answer without whingeing. Being a part of quite a large guild, I usually find if we don't have a full all-guild group we have so many players logging in and out that any spaces created are usually very quickly filled, so if we have one space it is usually only temporary, and hence I would sometimes tell players no on that basis. On a quieter time, or if we have a few spaces I would usually invite players to join if they asked to do so, but not always.

When you have a group of players in a guild who often hunt together they will build a solid understanding of one another's play and tactics, strengths and weaknesses - losing this understanding in a group through adding players from outside the normal 'circle' can (and does IMHO) lead to screw ups and deaths. For example - I play an infiltrator, and have a very good understanding with Lunar, a sorceress and our regular crowd-control (not suprising having grouped with her almost full-time for 40 levels retail + 20 levels beta ). Even if we have tanks in our group, I will often be the one who pulls mobs because Lunar and I work well as a partnership and can usually do so as quickly as possible but still safely. There have been occasions when the understanding is lost as players join and rush in (despite being told how we are operating) hitting mezzed mobs that aren't the next pull and generally screwing it up.

I would fully understand being told 'no, all guild' or 'no, we're ok', or even 'no, wrong class'.... why can't others?

Just my opinion.

Jup.

 

[old.Alwych]

If i play alts its with my brother sometimes and also with some close friends who i tend to group with all the time. Non stop i am asked to let people join the group.

The fact is that i have every right to say no. Im playing with friends who i know and am having fun and we are taking stuff out thats getting us good exp so why should i have to invite every stranger who happens to want to join? I dont pay a fee to level any of you guys up i pay a fee to have fun in this game.

Usually with alts i will make up an excuse saying we are all leaving soon so sorry its no point to let you join us. I shouldnt have to make excuses but you feel bad when you are non stop 5 ppl every 10 mins asking to group. I have to say on excal albion i have found that when i say no and give some excuse they then say stuff like pffttttt N00000000000000000000bssssssssssss!!!

So why the hell should ppl HAVE to invite you to their group?

Join a guild or play with friends. Dont expect to be able to walk into groups who are close friends and who are comfortable chatting to each other. Sometimes people just like to join a group an just chat to friends as they play and inviting strangers into the group means thats alot harder to do.

You play your way i will play mine. Blacklist people if you like who wont let you join their group but i think you will just be alienating yourself from even more people if you do that.

 

[oldnick]

I think the main point is lots of people are calling for higher lvl albs to catch up with the mids. So a lot of people are looking to gain lvls as fast as possible to help in RvR. Being refused doesnt bother me much. My standard answer is "Oh well more lower lvl albs in rvr".

Nick

 

[old.stroke]

I'm only repeating what others have said already, but want to state my view on it.
You can't demand people to invite you. Most people have had experiences with bad groups and if they realise they're in a good group that is getting good xp, they're ofcourse reluctant to invite another, unknown, player.
Just accept that. I'm an infiltrator AND unguilded so i know how hard it can be to find a good group. I usually tag along on people i know from earlier on and if they're full or can't invite me, fine, i'll either stick around nearby waiting for more people to come, or check out another place.
Picking on people for not inviting you into their group will only lead to less opportunities for you.

 

[old.Witchunter]

Sure, it'll take a while longer to level when hunting pygmies or something, because you took on extra people, but you're helping them aswell.

If players and guilds want to seclude themselves and restrict access to their groups, it's not doing much for the realm as a whole. Obviously Albion/Prydwen has a problem with this.


What I said is I don't like these attitudes at lower levels. Players at higher levels will know who they do and don't want to group with, but at lower levels, it's pretty unlikely for a group of lv8'ish players being friends. Specially when from different guilds, or unguilded...

More so in Mithra(lv8+ dungeon), where a group has just formed, and you can't get in because you cannot tank or heal.

As I say, pretty selfish behaviour from the group leader. Normally, the person I pm, will reply and not feel so good about the GL's decission. Can you still say these are friends grouping? Or random people grouping?



Although, from reading some of the replies, it seems like more people are involved in restricting groups then I previously thought.


roll on the pk server!

 

[[TNN]Aardvark]

Well my normal standpoint is to invite people in if they ask and there's room. Even if they're not the right class for the job, we MAKE it work. 7 tanks and one healer at pygmies? Hell we'll try it. 5 wizards, 2 healers and a tank? Ditto.

The only, ONLY limitations I have are through basic necessity, such as at least one tank, one healer, and one CCer if necessary. XP may be harmed, but having a full group means EVERYONE is getting something out of it.

I thought I was doing the right thing, that I'd be selfish to keep my own and a couple of others XP maxed, while some poor sod is groupless for hours.

Oh well, as its the norm, I'll treat others as they treat me. I won't blacklist, but I won't group ppl who have kept me or my friends out of a group for reasons of 'it'll hurt our XP'. Sue me, its my choice, just as much as not letting me in your group was yours.

 

[Solarius]

What makes you so certain that the players at under level 8 'can't be friends'? Whilst most of the time when grouping with my alts I will be willing to accept other players into a group that's not full, i the truth of the matter is that, when I do, more often than not I'll regret it. I really hate it when someone asks to join you group, you accept then suddenly they start demanding this item from the drops, or that we move to another (and usually risker) are so they can level themselves quicker. It's even got to the point where I have found myself telling a player who's just joined that we won't move areas and if they don't like that, they can leave. They joined my group, not the other way round!

Many times I am grouped with guildmates alts also, these are friends and we're often happy with the members we have. We work towards the whole group, and items are handed to any player who can use the item, or has an alt who can. An outside player disrups this. Recently, some friends of mine were in a group in Sprag den, when I recieved a pm from a player who wanted to join (Noone in the group knew the player). I said fine, and they asked me to meet them at the entrance to help them past the cutters. Two of the group died to unfotunate aggro from a wondering spraggonote when clearing the cutters, no sign of the player. When I asked where they were, they were in TNN still, and haden't even started to come along! When the player finally did arive, he was insistant that we keep moving around trying to find more mobs quicker, even to the point of being downright insulting to the rest of the group. Reason? He'd been RvRing most of the day, and wanted quick xp to make up for the lost time.

I have one thing more to say. The game allows you to play the way you wish. Players shouldn't be expected to change this just because YOU think they should. If you want a group, and can't find one where you want to hunt, start your own!

 

[SFXman]

They is a load of sense in not taking more people in if you are gaining good exp with ease... sure the game is about fun but you have to level sometimes. Class may not be as important when considering taking people into a group but level sure does make a huge difference...
Also if your group just takes anyone of any class or level.... you will end up maybe dying a lot (happens often in badly thought-out groups), getting little exp etc...
People can decide if they want more people in a group or not.
For example a scout duo might not want a third person (like me and my cousin) because they can pretty much take down oranges with close to zero downtime at a very good pace, not much sense to take on some other class in this case... sometimes maybe but often not.
You will always find anther group even if one denies your entry.

 

[Meatballs]

There is this thing called CHALLENGE CODE in the game. If you're group has too many people, and the monster con is too low, then instead of just distributing the exp across more people, it decreases the total exp as well.

I'll black list and refuse to group, or help them if they're dying.

mabye they'll realise being an arse doesn't help their game

Is so hypocritical

 

[SFXman]

I must agree Meatballs. Just because people know how the game works doesn't mean they deserve some person being extremely sour towards them tbh.

 

[cadiva]

Flags

My personal view is that there are flags there for people to use when looking for a group or when a group is looking for people - they put them there for a reason - why not use them?

Quite often my guild goes out on guild hunts, there are only 10 of us in the guild and it's a rare occasion when all 10 of us are online together. If that happens, we make two groups and go hit things we know won't add too much to the BAF code.

It's rarer still we'll invite non guild people into our groups for the simple reason that we've all played together for months and know how each other person plays their character - less deaths, more xp and everyone is happy.

Just as often I go out hunting on my own and being spammed with group invites when the person spamming you hasn't even said hello is even more irritating imho.

No-one has a right to a group, it's up to the individuals in each group as to whether or not they want anyone else in it.
Bitching and moaning about it won't gain you any friends either. There are plenty of people out there, not joining one guild only group isn't going to kill your character is it?

I've been on both sides of the group debate and personally I'd far rather group with my mates than risk it on a group of strangers who usually end up getting me killed either through stupidity, bravado or occasional bad luck.

My two coppersworth, do what you will with it.

 

[SilverHood]

I've been in group of 4-5 players, where the xp was awful.... but at least we had loads of fun chatting while killing easy mobs without any problem..... Wouldn't have let anyone join that group:

other times, especially in Varulvhamn and spindelhalla (midgard), if you have 2 people, you dont get BAF, if you have 3-5 people, you generally get 2 BAF, more than 5, and you get 3 bafs

now, if were 5 people, and strugling, and another player joins, we're gonna get our asses handed to us, unless that person has a friend with him....

and complaining about people who wont group isn't exactly the best way to go about it......

add people you like grouping with to your friends list.... if no one is flagged as looking for a group, then ask the people on your friends lift (those your level) if they have need of you.... I can tell you, in 70% of cases, they wont mind having you along if they have room, especially if you play a Tank or healer calss.... for stealthers, its a bit harder, but I have a scout, and while getting groups can be hard at times, my friends list has never let me down

 

[Wend]

Originally posted by Witchunter
What I said is I don't like these attitudes at lower levels.

Thats not really what you said. But it's OK at higher levels? 45+? Where levelling becomes a REAL pain in the rear?

Should people always let others in their exp groups, even if it hurts exp (possibly considerably), because it is the sociable thing to do? Why?

 

[Armolas]

Awww come back to hib, you know we will always group you over here

 

[deadparrot]

What r u whining about? u make it sound like u have a godgiven right to join ppls groups.

When someone makes a group its up to them who they invite, its not like every group HAS to have 8 members.

If i ask if a group has any space and they say "no we're fine " I move to the next group/solo, simple as that.

Sorry for the flame but its such a dumb topic to start.

 

[Tigerius]

Lets turn the tables a bit, I'm sure most of you know the scenario of a group killing mobs they are happy with killing. Be it a friend/guild group or just any group. Then another person is invited to the group, quite possibly turning the before bearable exp too low, either way the new guy starts demanding you switch to new mobs giving better exp. Not unlikely getting the entire group killed, most certainly ruining the mood of the group. I'm sure it's happend to all of us. Now ask why people should always be expected to invite if they have room?

Today the guild went on a Dartmoor trip, we took along 1 stranger. After less than an hour he started whining about the poor experience and how we should do witherwoodes, being fairly deep in DM at the point we couldn't just disband him on spot so trying to negotiate a bit we stop in different sites to make more pulls (as opposed to our normal fairly moving approach). In a bit we got killed and released. We ended up with about 0.4 gained, a couple of items, nothing amazing but as usual the guild had fun and didn't take alot of time. The stranger however called it a complete waste of time and was generally rude. Had he lost exp I could have understood him, but considering he did gain and we didn't spend too much time there it can in no way have been that unbearable. We'll most certainly keep inviting strangers, we've had been along that have been great fun and had great fun, but events like these sure make you think twice about it. Guess we should start warning people optimal experience is not guaranteed.

 

[old.Pempula]

I can understand perfectly well 'guild-only' and 'we're fine' groups. I dont think there is anything wrong with either of them. It's not the way I group mostly, but if I were to limit my group I would limit it to 'guild-only' or 'we're fine' (we're fine probably equals the group knows what it is and isn't going to kill and doesnt need anymore people to do it, makes things a lot more simple xp/drop wise if that were ever a question). And 'Guild-only' groups are probably what guilds are for, dont you think?

Anyway, IMO people could use the in-built 'looking for group'-Group looking for xxxx'-system a lot more than they do. Single players would bother groups a heck of a lot less with 'Have space questions?', which is a silly thing to ask anyway. Experience has shown that if a group needs/wants more people in, the group can invite the single players in (and using the correct flag would help, but... that system just doesnt seem to be used to its full potential).