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Scouse

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Crops that are resistant to their main pests without pesticides are bad somehow?

Bollocks.
Yep, it is indeed bollocks that Bt Brinjal is grown without pesticide use. In fact - it's exactly the same situation as in the article I posted.

It doesn't fucking work @Wij. It's the farming version of smoking with just as powerful a lobby. In fact it's worse, because we have a working alternative that achieves the objectives without harm - death free fags.
 

Scouse

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No. It works really well. Science.
I guess it backs up your argument when you ignore the science I posted that shows reduced pesticide use isn't a great indicator of harm (so, original post has refuted your subsequent ones, and you've ignored the other arguments).

We can increase consumable calories produced (in excess of those gained via a strain of eggplant) without resorting to chemical use.


Edit:

BTW - from your article:
Individuals in households growing Bt brinjal were less likely to report symptoms consistent with pesticide exposure, such as chronic respiratory illnesses or skin disease.
"Less likely" still means "farmers report symptoms due to pesticide exposure".

They don't have to be exposed at all. None of us do.
 

Wij

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The article you posted shows a reduction in harm to vertebrates but not to insects which it attributes to the use of neonics. It's based on US data since neonic use is more limited in the EU.

Neonics are not a GM crop. It's a different thing.

Also where's your evidence that organic farming can have higher yields than modern farming and do so without pesticides?
 

Scouse

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Posted it before m8. I'm not going to get into a linkwang.

15 minutes till my first meeting and the sheep have got out. And it's snowing. :)
 

Raven

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The obvious problems with GM is lack of bio diversity and the fact that the manufacturers (big pharma again) control the crops, not the farmers.

Every field, genetically the exact same crop...as if that won't cause problems later down the line.
 

Wij

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The obvious problems with GM is lack of bio diversity and the fact that the manufacturers (big pharma again) control the crops, not the farmers.

Every field, genetically the exact same crop...as if that won't cause problems later down the line.
We've been growing monocultures long before GM. That's not a problem with GM itself. It would be perfectly possible with GM to produce several strains with the same trait and breed from them as normal. Things just need managing. It's a useful tool, not a magic bullet.
 

Scouse

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We've been growing monocultures long before GM. That's not a problem with GM itself.
No, but it IS a problem and one that's compounded, not alleviated, by GM.

It's hubris to think we can manage ourselves out of a problem we barely understand. Our lack of knowledge around the risks and impacts across the ecological web is huge.

Meanwhile we have a more labour intensive but biodiverse and chemical free solution to our problems.

We should take it - whilst aggressively ramping up the science to build our knowledge, rather than continuing to dump millions of tonnes of toxins on monocultural wastelands.
 

Scouse

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And yet nature herself sees fit to do the same thing randomly and without planning or forethought:

In tiny limited cases that become a success over generations (or not), giving the overall ecology time to adapt to the different paradigm whilst maintaining equilibrium.

Or we do it artificially and directly, (like in Bt Brinjal, where they've been trying to do it by crossbreeding unsuccesfully for fucking years, because it doesn't seem to want to take naturally) and then we roll the whole fucking thing out en-mass into giant monoculture farms, supported by a wholesale chemical extermination industry.

Fucking win win there @Wij. Bravo!
 

Scouse

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Which bit of vastly reduced pesticide use did you miss?
Monoculture.
Chemical use.

Which bit of those things are so desireable to you that you don't want rid of them - especially considering they're not mandatory?

And, as the scientists have pointed out (where the law allows them access to the data) less of a different chemical quite often means a more toxic chemical with more devastating consequences. Even in the "well regulated" west.

But I guess you love crop spraying, so...
 

Wij

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And I've already said that Monoculture isn't the fault of GM and organic farming still uses pesticides.
 

Scouse

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And I've already said that Monoculture isn't the fault of GM and organic farming still uses pesticides.
Who cares if they're not causal. Their use goes hand in hand. Like fish and chips*.

As for your second point it's laughable - it's a totally false equivalence.



*Or GM monoculture and massive toxic chemical use.
 

Wij

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Who cares if they're not causal. Their use goes hand in hand. Like fish and chips*.

As for your second point it's laughable - it's a totally false equivalence.



*Or GM monoculture and massive toxic chemical use.
 

Raven

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That's what happens when you destroy ecosystems.

Idiots still blame cats because that is what they are taught to do. Has nobody noticed how clean their windscreen is after a long drive these days?

The sea is only one of the badly reported issues, insect life is being decimated and is critical to our survival.
 

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