Holiday Rail and Post Strikes in the UK?

[SilverHood]

Christmas strike misery as Post Office workers stage five-day walkout and rail services are hit by industrial action

Thought all this nonsense ended with Bob Crow. Don't really mind people striking if they have a real grievance, but at Christmas? That's just poor form. The fact that they're striking in the time period I'm in the UK and needing the damn trains... Just means I'm unlucky.

 

[Scouse]

Don't really mind people striking if they have a real grievance, but when it inconveniences me?

It's a shame the working classes have no solidarity.


Edit: Looking at the article in the torygraph it seems they may have an effect:

Ministers are looking at every option, they are going to have to start taking action which previously everyone hoped we could avoid.

 

[SilverHood]

It's a shame the working classes have no solidarity.


Edit: Looking at the article in the torygraph it seems they may have an effect:

Because legislative action will fix the underlying issues they are striking over? Short of re-nationalising the misery that is Southern Rail, I don't think so. That said, banning transportation workers from striking across multiple days would be a good thing.

 

[Scouse]

banning transportation workers from striking across multiple days would be a good thing.

That's just taking away the only power they've got.

The police can't. It'd cause uproar. But transport is massively inconvenient to people, so ban them too. The NHS is already under orders. How about banking staff? Or those at the utilities? Perhaps McD's? It's fucking annoying when I can't get my Chicken McDouble Shitburger.


Instead - when transport workers strike turn the anger towards the government who privatised the lines on shit contracts and the companies who are still making a hefty profit by exploiting those contracts to the detriment of all, staff and public alike...

 

[Ch3tan]

Southern fail are being propped up by the government. It's ridiculous. They should have been fined multiple times for failing to deliver their timetable.

I use them daily, and I am with the drivers and staff on this one. They've banned overtime, cut staff numbers. They had this coming. Modernisation of the rail ways isn't going to happen overnight, the operators need to phase it in and should have some respect for those they employ during that transition.

 

[Raven]

Punishing the public, standard union behaviour.

You're best off hiring a car, its usually cheaper, quicker and cleaner.

 

[Bodhi]

Anyone who suggests the railways would be better in public hands clearly never lived through the misery that was British Rail. If we went for a Model like in Europe where the railways were under public ownership but run as a business then yes, great idea. Sadly that would involve dirty words in our public service like "efficiency" or "customer service", so we'll end up with BR Mk2.

I agree Southern Rail need a kick up the arse, I'd just take the franchise off them and give it to someone else who'll invest in it (I'm thinking that bloke with a beard and a record company).

 

[Ch3tan]

Punishing the public, standard union behaviour.

You're best off hiring a car, its usually cheaper, quicker and cleaner.

Clearly a man who has never driven in south London, or looked at parking in central

 

[Raven]

God no.

Still correct though, hire car from point A, drive to drop off point at point B. No need to park and still cheaper for longer trips, or at least comparable in price.

 

[DaGaffer]

Anyone who suggests the railways would be better in public hands clearly never lived through the misery that was British Rail.

LOL. How old were you when BR was privatised? 10? Privatisation did very little to change the misery. It just made it more expensive misery with added wifi.

There's one reason why other countries have better railways than the UK, and one reason only; they pay for them.



Pretty stark isn't it?

 

[Raven]

I don't get why they can't just automate trains, its not like the drivers do a lot except press stop and start based on messages from a computer. A computer won't habitually go off on the sick for 6 months either.

 

[Job]

Trains are fucking shit.
They should have been dropped as soon as tarmac was invented, rip up the tracks, sell the steel and turn them into roads, just imagine how much better everything would run using coaches instead..no more congestion caused by rail crossings.
Tracks split towns up..endless dead ends, pinch points at crossings, insane long waits for a hundred people to go past on a heavily subsidised outdated transport.
We have to think ahead for the driverless car..the train has to go.

 

[Embattle]

LOL. How old were you when BR was privatised? 10? Privatisation did very little to change the misery. It just made it more expensive misery with added wifi.

There's one reason why other countries have better railways than the UK, and one reason only; they pay for them.

View attachment 35028

Pretty stark isn't it?

Yes but thankfully I'm paying less to subsidise a form of transport I never use, just glad my Scooter is going strong.

It is ironically much more likely to increase the need to automate the whole system if they keep getting paralysed by strikes, considering the fact it is harder to have driver less cars yet they are appearing more and more it seems odd we still hang on to drivers in trains.

 

[Scouse]

I don't get why they can't just automate trains

Because of humans.

Auntie works at a rail company. They got rid of the second guy who performs safety checks and said the driver had to do them. Queue strikes.

Predictably, limited time, too many things to do and kids dicking about and what happens? Kid dies in the exact sort of incident that the second guy was there to look out for.

The driver's life is fucked. The company profits stayed safe tho...

 

[Bodhi]

LOL. How old were you when BR was privatised? 10? Privatisation did very little to change the misery. It just made it more expensive misery with added wifi.

There's one reason why other countries have better railways than the UK, and one reason only; they pay for them.

View attachment 35028

Pretty stark isn't it?

ROFLMAO!

Sorry to burst your condescending little bubble, but I was 17 when privatisation was completed, and since then passenger numbers have gone through the roof and customer service has improved, whilst the amount we have had to subsidise the entire thing (after an initial rocky start w.r.t safety) has gone down. Rolling stock has improved, and the whole train experience for those of us who live in the civilised part of the country has improved immeasurably. I've also seen that with my own eyes, and experienced trains our here in Europe - can't say they're a whole lot better out here if I'm honest.

Whilst I will never agree that Southern Rail are a salt of the earth company we should all look up to, I'm not entirely sure if I really get the concerns from the Union themselves - if we take them at face value. Over a third of all trains on the UK rail network work on a driver only basis, without death, destruction fire and brimstone befalling every journey - including the bulk of the trains on the WML where I live, which seem to do marvellously with the guard being at each station where people get on and off rather than needing one a train. Pretty sure it's not worth even going there on how the DLR manage without even a driver on board. So I'm guessing it's less about safety, more about job preservation - even though Southern have said no one is getting laid off.

From what I gather Southern have even offered to have an extra chap on the train just for safety purposes, but again the unions have decided they'd rather cause misery to millions rather than realise their industry is changing and they might have to as well.

 

[Bodhi]

Because of humans.

Auntie works at a rail company. They got rid of the second guy who performs safety checks and said the driver had to do them. Queue strikes.

Predictably, limited time, too many things to do and kids dicking about and what happens? Kid dies in the exact sort of incident that the parents were there to look out for.

The driver's life is fucked. The company profits stayed safe tho...

Fixed that for you.

 

[Scouse]

Fixed that for you.

School age kids. Unless you think that parents should be around them 24/7?

Either way - it's predictably callous from you Bodhi. Deaths happen when corners are cut for profit. We'd all love to live in your privately-owned automated transport-related utopia but it turns out you're just as deluded as you accuse me of being.

Live in the real world eh?

 

[Himse]

Costs me £11.50 (Return) to do a 20 minute journey 4 stops, a dirty train and its always full to the point everyone is crammed in.

Can do a similar length journey from Schiphol to Amsterdam Grand Central for 8 euros (return). Same time, clean train, 99% of people are seated.

They haven't replaced the trains on my line for as long as I can remember, used to go to work with my Dad in the holiday when i was 4-5, i'm now 26 and they're still the same design, same carpet & seats. Sigh.

/moan over

 

[Moriath]

School age kids. Unless you think that parents should be around them 24/7?

Either way - it's predictably callous from you Bodhi. Deaths happen when corners are cut for profit. We'd all love to live in your privately-owned automated transport-related utopia but it turns out you're just as deluded as you accuse me of being.

Live in the real world eh?

Darminism tbh. If you cant follow the rules and the safety messages without someone standing behind you all the time then we need to route those out by natural stupidity.

Wont happen cause there must be someone to blame for someone else being stupid and therefore lots of money to be won

 

[Bodhi]

School age kids. Unless you think that parents should be around them 24/7?

Either way - it's predictably callous from you Bodhi. Deaths happen when corners are cut for profit. We'd all love to live in your privately-owned automated transport-related utopia but it turns out you're just as deluded as you accuse me of being.

Live in the real world eh?

Ah, so you mean youths then? If you're going to live your life as a pedant then at least get it right.

And I do live in the real world. I live near Stafford station and if I want to get to Birmingham, it's around 12 quid to jump on a train with just a driver and some "guards" who stay on the platform itself. Only time I dont get a seat is if I travel at peak times, which I avoid unless I've to be at Brewdog for 6pm

Biggest problem I can see on our railways isn't the lack of guards or the fact the train companies want to make a bob or two, is lack of capacity. Through lines that were taken down and not replaced, or stuff we didn't rebuild after WW2 (check out why BR was formed in the first place), there just isn't enough space on the lines for the trains we need - which is the only justification for HS2 I can see, is that it will take the express lines away from what is currently there.

 

[Scouse]

Lol! We have to call kids 'youths' now do we? Riiiiight.

Strong argument there bodhs. Totes unassailable. #sick. or somesuch.

 

[Tom]

Darminism tbh. If you cant follow the rules and the safety messages without someone standing behind you all the time then we need to route those out by natural stupidity.

I'm wondering how darwinism applies to passengers at risk of attack from idiots emboldened by the lack of any visible staff.

 

[DaGaffer]

ROFLMAO!

Sorry to burst your condescending little bubble, but I was 17 when privatisation was completed, and since then passenger numbers have gone through the roof and customer service has improved, whilst the amount we have had to subsidise the entire thing (after an initial rocky start w.r.t safety) has gone down. Rolling stock has improved, and the whole train experience for those of us who live in the civilised part of the country has improved immeasurably. I've also seen that with my own eyes, and experienced trains our here in Europe - can't say they're a whole lot better out here if I'm honest.

Whilst I will never agree that Southern Rail are a salt of the earth company we should all look up to, I'm not entirely sure if I really get the concerns from the Union themselves - if we take them at face value. Over a third of all trains on the UK rail network work on a driver only basis, without death, destruction fire and brimstone befalling every journey - including the bulk of the trains on the WML where I live, which seem to do marvellously with the guard being at each station where people get on and off rather than needing one a train. Pretty sure it's not worth even going there on how the DLR manage without even a driver on board. So I'm guessing it's less about safety, more about job preservation - even though Southern have said no one is getting laid off.

From what I gather Southern have even offered to have an extra chap on the train just for safety purposes, but again the unions have decided they'd rather cause misery to millions rather than realise their industry is changing and they might have to as well.

Fuck me you're older than I thought. Problem with your narrative is that the tax payer has actually saved fuck all (the state owned BR didn't cost more than the subsidy now being paid plus the 30 bn in bonds the state has given to Network Rail to redevelop stations and network); and the counterfactual of a public-owned rail service with modernised unions and proper investment has never been seen in the UK, although it obviously has been seen elsewhere. Even Thatch admitted that the railways were a poor fit for privatisation, but at the time the Major government did it, it was in the belief that it was being privatised to manage its eventual decline.

The reflexive public ownership=bad isn't automatically true just because we've all drank the kool-aid; industries like railways work on much longer investment cycles with lower returns than other industries, even in transport and the divvying up of the network into regional groups is an artificial competition model that has no impact on actual pricing because there's no customer choice at point of purchase.

As for staffing; the main reason is rolling stock and station designs aren't as fit for purpose as they need to be, and its cheaper to keep guards than redesign stations (there was debate about it here recently because the call was between no guards on trains or no staff at stations, and the guards cost less than station staff).

 

[BloodOmen]

People that strike at Christmas are cunts, simple as that. I can understand strikes at any other team, but Christmas? fuck off you bunch of miserable whiny cunts.

 

[Moriath]

I'm wondering how darwinism applies to passengers at risk of attack from idiots emboldened by the lack of any visible staff.

One guard that u never see on a train isnt gonna stop that.

 

[Bodhi]

Fuck me you're older than I thought. Problem with your narrative is that the tax payer has actually saved fuck all (the state owned BR didn't cost more than the subsidy now being paid plus the 30 bn in bonds the state has given to Network Rail to redevelop stations and network); and the counterfactual of a public-owned rail service with modernised unions and proper investment has never been seen in the UK, although it obviously has been seen elsewhere. Even Thatch admitted that the railways were a poor fit for privatisation, but at the time the Major government did it, it was in the belief that it was being privatised to manage its eventual decline.

The reflexive public ownership=bad isn't automatically true just because we've all drank the kool-aid; industries like railways work on much longer investment cycles with lower returns than other industries, even in transport and the divvying up of the network into regional groups is an artificial competition model that has no impact on actual pricing because there's no customer choice at point of purchase.

As for staffing; the main reason is rolling stock and station designs aren't as fit for purpose as they need to be, and its cheaper to keep guards than redesign stations (there was debate about it here recently because the call was between no guards on trains or no staff at stations, and the guards cost less than station staff).

So apart from the fact it hasn't saved the taxpayer any money (a large part due to the safety improvements brought in after the Hatfield crash), the only real opposition to privatisation is on ideological grounds - by all metrics apart from subsidies (which would have gone up anyway with the improvements needed to the Infrastructure), the railways have improved since we did it.

Not sure about the lack of competition at point of purchase - if I want to get to Birmingham or Manchester, I have 3 options from Stafford - CrossCountry (faster but more crowded), London Midland (the rattler) or, if I'm feeling flush, Virgin. All with notably different experiences and with reasons to choose each.

I would also suggest, that if railways work on longer investment cycles than other industries, is subjecting them to the 5 year parliament cycle really the way forwards?

 

[Bodhi]

Lol! We have to call kids 'youths' now do we? Riiiiight.

Strong argument there bodhs. Totes unassailable. #sick. or somesuch.

No, call kids kids? However "kids" assumes they were children and with parents - when your example was older than that and changes my reaction entirely.

Accuracy dear boy, kind of important

 

[Gumbo]

I'm in a lot of meetings these days involving kids and youths. You have to call them 'young people' or the social workers get very upset.

 

[Raven]

Won't "Special snowflakes with delusions of grandeur" do?

 

[Scouse]

"kids" assumes they were children and with parents

In 43 years I've never had any trouble with it. But talking to you...