Radical suggestion for how realm skill points are awarded

[Cozak]

I would suggest some non-balance-threatening thing as a reward for high RRs, one idea being to have a title before your name in-game.
Albion could be something like:
RR6: Sir
RR7: Lord
RR8: Baron
RR9: Earl
RR10: Duke
...or whatever, obviously there'd be the female equivalent for each one too (can't remember what they all are ATM). So in the cosmically unlikely event of my little Paladin, Quorthon, getting to RR6, he'd have Sir Quorthon over his head. Lets those around you know the heights you've attained, without further altering balance.

Discuss.

...

Weeeeee! EverQuest AA titles warrior went from Baroness -> Veteran -> Marshall

 

[GrisomWarshadow]

How about when you make a new char you can choose "PvE Only" and then you get realm skill points at each lvl but can't enter any RvR zone?

hmm not sure how that would work mate due to home frontiers like odins for mids i suppose they could get around it tho maybe change it so you cant go past gate or you get ported back or something

 

[Lejemorder]

...I thought they were RvRing because they enjoyed RvRing?

dont sound that to me all the time i think they both do it coz they enjoy it, but also to be "the best"

 

[Moo]

yeah in uo you had karma and fame

+karma from doing good deads like killing bad mobs
-karma from doing bad deeds like PKing people or killing nice animals like horses etc or NPCs

+Fame from any kill of any mob, the harder the mob the more fame. Eg chain killing demons gives +fame, also pking people and etc.
-Fame from you yourself dying in any way.

titles changed all the time but the top ones were Lord soandso or Lady soandso while karma changed the title you received from the good version to the bad version etc like a -100% karma dude with +100% fame would be a DreadLord soandso while the +100% karma +100%fame would be just Lord

 

[Svartmetall]

yeah in uo you had karma and fame

+karma from doing good deads like killing bad mobs
-karma from doing bad deeds like PKing people or killing nice animals like horses etc or NPCs

+Fame from any kill of any mob, the harder the mob the more fame. Eg chain killing demons gives +fame, also pking people and etc.
-Fame from you yourself dying in any way.

titles changed all the time but the top ones were Lord soandso or Lady soandso while karma changed the title you received from the good version to the bad version etc like a -100% karma dude with +100% fame would be a DreadLord soandso while the +100% karma +100%fame would be just Lord

Nice...maybe have the Lord version for normal servers and DreadLord for PvP servers...

 

[Flimgoblin]

I like the current RA-system because the difference between low RR and high RR is quite small in most cases. The NF RA-system suggestion, however, is pretty bad - as I can see it RR11 is needed for most essential RAs, imo :/

currently MoC requires 24 points
RP requires 19

there's only one level of them (the highest)

now admittedly they do get nerfed however what they also do is put in lower versions of them at cheaper costs.

currently a RR7 char has many more powerful toys than a RR4

in new frontier sthey'll have the same toys just better versions.

 

[Saggy]

...I thought they were RvRing because they enjoyed RvRing?

So...

How about if we reduce the max level to 20, make level20 mobs to drop bag of coins worth of 1p and all the "uber" items and reaching LGM would require making 2 items (1s/item)? I bet there would be lots and lots of unhappy players crying on the time wasted on leveling X amount of lvl50s LGM crafters with uber gear and 100p cash and depending on the what the X amount is they would get new tittle above their head as a new reward for their hard work

...you wouldn't mind if they change things to that? Getting max realm skill points at RR5 would have worked if it had been like that since the beginning, not now when people have done lots and lots of hard work reaching RR11 to max out their characters. Also its not like people stop RvRing when they reach RR11 (well, some people do just like some people start leveling new character after lvl50 ;o).

 

[Balbor]

So...

...you wouldn't mind if they change things to that? Getting max realm skill points at RR5 would have worked if it had been like that since the beginning, not now when people have done lots and lots of hard work reaching RR11 to max out their characters. Also its not like people stop RvRing when they reach RR11 (well, some people do just like some people start leveling new character after lvl50 ;o).

Hard work or finding ways was 'are not intended' using over power classes and ability, Buffbots etc. Someone that just buys a RR7+ character off ebay hasn't done anything to earn that. Some people have more money than other and can have 2 accounts, more than one PC to run them on, faster computers, faster connection, more internet access etc, all stuff thats outside the game yet have a huge impact on it. If everyone got all there RSP by RR5 then the play field would be more even, more people would be able to get groups and so more people would RvR, the rest of the RvR zones will start to fill up and life will be better.

 

[Svartmetall]

If everyone got all there RSP by RR5 then the play field would be more even, more people would be able to get groups and so more people would RvR, the rest of the RvR zones will start to fill up and life will be better.

Someone who 100% got what I meant, and also what I intended .

 

[Jenkz]

They should just add other ways to obtain realm points (not extreme amounts, but say ~50k a week on avg.) other than the current methods of farming RPs we see.

Say if courier missions gave realm points, if keep guards from a claimed keep gave realm points, keep takes gave more realm points - couple this with the NF "radar-map" and all of these could build up to an alternative way of getting RPs.... (in sensible amounts, ofc)

This would get more people out into the RvR zones but they would still be vulnerable (and hence farmable by the gank-squads), remember the days of mids XPing in yggdra, that was the only time I actually felt I could impact on another realms progress - there needs to be a reason for the average john smith to go out into the frontiers on a regular basis, currently there isnt (I RvR rarely - I have no reason to apart from ~40k to RR6)

I have no idea how many RPs you get off the "RP pool" come NF, but I gather it is not a great amount, as long as the only way of getting RPs is by farming people then the only ways of making "acceptable" levels of RPs is off optimal group sets.

the playfield would be more even if everyone had opportunity to get to RR11 all be it slower. I personally dont really like the fact that the only way to reach RR11 is off optimal groups, it's unrealistic for 99.5% of the server population. Not trying to take away anything that the RR11s we see atm have achieved, it would be nice however if RR11 was an achievable goal for anyone, even if it takes three/four times longer than gank-group RvR. Currently my character(s) have no LWRP unless i activley go out there and RP farm - why should I have to farm to get RPs? Would it not be more productive/beneficial to go out there and do something (that involves a risk of a PvP encounter) to gain a small but noticable amount of RPs (ie. courier missions/keep engagements)

Yeah but the average player is lucky to get 10k realm points in a week. Only the lucky few in decent gank groups can achieve 100k+ a week and then it takes a long time.

It isnt quite true, you can make good RPs in small groups if you actually go out there and find a way of killing people (off peak hours, or hours when emain is not overrun by lots of optimal groups that kill you). Bigchief made ~150k LWRP on his necro solo, others manage it too outside of gank groups.

You are obviously right in saying that gank squads are the optimal way of making realm points (other factors play a major role too, such as an extremely optimised high ML/RR group in an underpopulated realm is most likely going to earn more LWRP - as they have more to farm). They are definatly not the ONLY way of making decent RPs. It's possible to get over 10k RP off a single keep defence/offense - if you can do that every night you have ~70k LWRP..... If you want to is another matter

This sounds somewhat contradictory, but it's still a matter of going out there and *farming* other players - there should be a PvE method (in frontier zones) to make a small (but noticable) amount of RPs.

 

[Saggy]

Someone who 100% got what I meant, and also what I intended .

And also totally misunderstood my point Sure, getting max realm skill points at RR5 would even the things between the casual and hardcore players but doing it now, ~2-years after RAs were introduced, would be a very rude slap on high RR players face. Radical changes should be a new game, not an patch or expansion. Good tip is to try to look things in as many differend point of views as possible - removing leveling from the game would be great for those who play because of the RvR but it would surely suck for those who have spent 300 days /played leveling 20 lvl50s ---> not such an good suggestion.

Take a look at ToA for example : were those new bonuses needed? Yes, pre-ToA capping SC-suits was way too easy -> ToA fixed Daoc-PvE (more rewarding). Was it a good thing in general? Hell no, the edge of casual players and hardcore players increased which shouldn't be Mythic's aim, imo. Those bonuses should have been introduced at the same time with SC. I for one had a plan on how much time I have to play and by following that plan I made X amount of lvl50s and got decent gear for them. Thanks to ToA I would have had to spent much more time on playing or playing only one of my characters -> had to retire 6 of my lvl50s -> wasted lots of time -> not a good thing

 

[inviteme]

Serious constructive suggestion: make things so you get two realm skill points per RR mini-ding, so that when you hit RR5 you have the full 100 skill points.

Why...?

1: The current huge gap between high and low RRs, in terms of both basic stats/attributes and active RAs, is greatly narrowed. This would make it a lot less intimidating for low RRs to get out there and get involved in RvR, because they'd have a lot more tools available to help them stay alive a bit longer. RvR needs to be made more, not less, welcoming to players. Doing this might just make more people - particularly low RRs - want to RvR for its own sake, since the playing field would be a lot less stacked against them. The longer you can survive, the more fun you can have.

The huge gap is not caused by RA:s, most low RR people wont have the skill to compete. Segregation whould prolly work better, atleast it's a direct solution to the problem :

2: A much greater sense of achievment for doing RvR early on, and much greater tangible rewards for participating. The very high costs of RAs after Frontiers are going to be pretty off-putting for a lot of people. I had really hoped Mythic might realise that RAs should be more, not less, accessible for lower RRs, but apparently they haven't; being farmed by people against whom you have very little chance is NO fun. RvR should ideally be something you do because it's enjoyable in and of itself, not something you endure with gritted teeth, keeping one weary eye on the RP meter (which is how it is for a lot of people).

Yes, more RA:s whould cause more diversity and in that sense whould be more fun.
However, the more RA:s you add and the more they affect your character the greater the chance of imbalances. And considering how much fotm:s theres been in daoc i think small steps is better than leaps. This also doesnt have much to do with the reasons that you die all the time.

3: People who only RvR to get RAs for PvE (there are a lot of those, and I'm one of them) won't have to spend 1,000,000 years, subjectively, doing something they actively dislike to get what they need. RR5 is still a hell of a lot of RvR to have to do to get all your RAs if you don't like RvR. And RvR is an EXTREMELY inefficient way to get realm skill points, which are for many people the only point of doing RvR - so at present it takes a very long time indeed stuck doing something you don't enjoy to get the RAs you want.

I kinda get the impression that you think there is a catch-22 situation for RR5- people? I guess i could say that it takes forever to ding 50 by soloing greencons, and that PvE thus prevents me from doing RvR. The problem is that it whould be way too fast for skilled people, imagine a total n00b like you getting 500k/week, what whould people like NP or DH be raking in? Again segregation whould solve this problem somewhat. I think a better solution whould be to make it easier to build competative groups, an efficient lfg function, build in voicecom, maybe even some sort of auto targetter .

4: People who only play DAOC for RvR won't be stuck with people who only RvR to get RAs for PvE for anywhere near as long . Plus, RvR-only types would know for SURE that skill was the only factor in their victories after RR5, since everyone would be on the same RA playing field, which would make victories all the more satisfying.

When you know how to play you know if you played good or bad, and it's only a few mistakes you can spot other people doing so a victory may just be that they played bad and you played slightly better. Statistics on wins and losses, and especially number of times in a zerg whould be alot more fun .

5: Maybe, just maybe, if RvR was less alienating and more rewarding, more players like me would get a taste for doing it for its own sake? I've seen people many times referring to RvR as something you "stick it out" in till you hit RR5...which I thought was very revealing comment on how un-fun RvR currently is. I'd like to WANT to RvR, but as it is it's simply not enough fun to be a worthwhile way to spend my in-game time. I do it just for the RAs, since fun is very rarely a factor...the so-called "endgame" is NOT the focus of DAOC for a lot of players.

If you did put in the effort that other gankgroups do, you whould prolly see how much more fun it is to run a competative group. Merely running with a skilled group for 1 day whould probobly give you some insight in how fun RvR can be .

Make the rewards faster and more tangible, make the playing field a lot more level, and you'd find a lot more people WANTING to RvR rather than RESIGNING themselves to having to do it, since it wouldn't be such a thankless, joyless endurance test.

I would suggest some non-balance-threatening thing as a reward for high RRs, one idea being to have a title before your name in-game.
Albion could be something like:
RR6: Sir
RR7: Lord
RR8: Baron
RR9: Earl
RR10: Duke
...or whatever, obviously there'd be the female equivalent for each one too (can't remember what they all are ATM). So in the cosmically unlikely event of my little Paladin, Quorthon, getting to RR6, he'd have Sir Quorthon over his head. Lets those around you know the heights you've attained, without further altering balance.

Discuss.

...

I think it's pretty ok as it is, at RR7 you have the basics (as a healer). The title idea isn't bad tho, but alot of people prolly want some sort of reward when they get RR:s.

 

[Sarumancer]

Well theyre making massive changes to allow you to XP in rvr, so I dont see why a lil boost to Rps via Pve wouldnt be impossible.

Oh and I think we're going to have to see something like the XP penalty in RVR across groups.

Name codes could be by RR, much the same as Mob Levels are now.

Same +1/ -1 Realm Title, yellow - Normal RP worth
+2 Orange +15%
+3 Red +30%
+4 Purple. +50%
-2 blue - 30%
-3 green -50%
-4 grey. - 90%

Adjust the rp's earnable for that player and you have a "fairer" system, as the RR8s would get jack shit for steamrollering an RR1 or RR2 group, who simply COULD NOT compete. Conversely if the lowbie RR group manages to get lucky and drop some of the RR8s etc, they get a substantially bigger RP Reward. There you are, theres your segregation, theres your "Fg vs Fg we want a fair fight" argument, perfectly answered. If youre interested in a good fight, you'll go after the groups that provide the most reward. If your group is "The Best" youre going to have every other group gunning for you, make your rvr experience a lot more lively. You can still turn around and crush an RR1 group, but you wont be rewarded similarly. No more "Easy" Rps.

Basically, the game is going to HAVE to implement some form of BULLY / GRANDFATHERING clause, because people who have been playing longest, can pick the newbies up and slap them senseless and theres bugger all the newbies can do about it.

 

[Laston]

How about when you make a new char you can choose "PvE Only" and then you get realm skill points at each lvl but can't enter any RvR zone?

buh but what about epic quests that you need to do in the frontiers?

 

[Escape]

Gaining realm ranks has the most obvious benefit of better RA's. Give all the RA's to RR5 and what's the point of RvR'ing anymore?

Some RvR groups are only interested in Last Week RPs, on the herald. That will still be there
Others want good fights, but they can't due to the lack of rvr-groups on each server, hence the zerg whines.


The average player will port to emain, can't join a gankgroup so joins a random. Random groups gets ganked, so they start to zerg. By giving all RAs at RR5, it's opening the game for casual players and will benefit hardcore rvr-groups too(who'll now have more groups to fight against)

High RR will be more important than ever in NF, thus, widening the gap between casual and dedicated players. Hybrid tanks even have the chance to rvr, but they need to be higher RR to fully benefit from the new RA's. So it's another deadend. The RA's are there, but you need to RvR for months before you get them.

If Mythic wanted to open the game to everyone, they would bring all RAs down to RR5. Fun for casual players and RvR groups alike. But Mythic will always be the developer who made a superb game, then totally shafted it.

The huge gap is not caused by RA:s, most low RR people wont have the skill to compete.

Alot of things factor into RvR, but skill is the least of them.

 

[inviteme]

Well theyre making massive changes to allow you to XP in rvr, so I dont see why a lil boost to Rps via Pve wouldnt be impossible.

Oh and I think we're going to have to see something like the XP penalty in RVR across groups.

Name codes could be by RR, much the same as Mob Levels are now.

Same +1/ -1 Realm Title, yellow - Normal RP worth
+2 Orange +15%
+3 Red +30%
+4 Purple. +50%
-2 blue - 30%
-3 green -50%
-4 grey. - 90%

Adjust the rp's earnable for that player and you have a "fairer" system, as the RR8s would get jack shit for steamrollering an RR1 or RR2 group, who simply COULD NOT compete. Conversely if the lowbie RR group manages to get lucky and drop some of the RR8s etc, they get a substantially bigger RP Reward. There you are, theres your segregation, theres your "Fg vs Fg we want a fair fight" argument, perfectly answered. If youre interested in a good fight, you'll go after the groups that provide the most reward. If your group is "The Best" youre going to have every other group gunning for you, make your rvr experience a lot more lively. You can still turn around and crush an RR1 group, but you wont be rewarded similarly. No more "Easy" Rps.

Basically, the game is going to HAVE to implement some form of BULLY / GRANDFATHERING clause, because people who have been playing longest, can pick the newbies up and slap them senseless and theres bugger all the newbies can do about it.

This still whouldn't prevent a gankgroup from steamrolling a low rr group, and how you make that out to segregate (separate) gankgroups from low rr groups is beyond me, id easily go for the group worth 20k RP:s than the one worth 2k. And altho i rather have a "fair" fight, being hunted by 3000 n00bs isnt fair to either them nor me. Personlly i started RvR:ing with a rr1-3 group, and winning a group like VGN (they had rr6+ ppl!!1) was very hard but doable. In all honesty no decent group whould fire off a RA against 1 FG n00bs, even using instas is overkill. The easiest part with being low RR was that you never faced any RA:s (except passives).

Im pretty sure that of those people who think it's impossible to get RP:s due to them being low RR 95% whould be just as useless with a rr20 char (duels excluded).

Alot of things factor into RvR, but skill is the least of them.

Just because everyone is capable of learning it doesn't mean they do, however easy to attain skill is a huge factor. Try playing with a n00b on a rr11 char and compare that to a regular GG player on a rr1 char.

 

[Svartmetall]

The huge gap is not caused by RA:s, most low RR people wont have the skill to compete.

You're telling me someone with several levels of Det, Purge, Aug stats, MOBlocking and LW (or whatever) etc doesn't have a huge advantage over a low RR who cannot afford the same RAs yet? Not only does the low RR have less experience in the RvR arena, he or she also simply has less tools available. If the 'skills' RvR players talk about are so impressive, and so important, then even if everyone had the same amount of RAs available then RvR players would still win, yes?

Yes, more RA:s whould cause more diversity and in that sense whould be more fun.

And more fun is surely an unequivocally good thing?

However, the more RA:s you add and the more they affect your character the greater the chance of imbalances.

Ah, like the imbalance between high and low RR, yes?

I kinda get the impression that you think there is a catch-22 situation for RR5- people?

There is such a situation for low RRs nowadays. They're up against people who not only have more experience but who have just inherently tougher/stronger etc characters. It's totally stacked against low RRs at the moment, far more than it was when RvR started up because everyone was low RR then. There were no high-RR groups out there at that point - if there had been, the problems and inequalities in RvR now would have become immediately apparent.
And having the deck stacked against you in two ways (experience/skill AND stats/abilities) is no way feel encouraged to go join in...at least making the RA playing field level by the time you hit RR5 would make things a bit less intimidating and depressing for low RRs, you wouldn't feel quite so helpless.

I guess i could say that it takes forever to ding 50 by soloing greencons, and that PvE thus prevents me from doing RvR.

Huh? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

imagine a total n00b like you

More flaming of PvE players by RvR players. Interesting. You are aware that going around calling people 'n00bs' has a tendency to just make you look like the worst kind of arrogant RvR-elitist? And FYI I've been playing, and playing a LOT, since August 2002.

If you did put in the effort that other gankgroups do, you whould prolly see how much more fun it is to run a competative group. Merely running with a skilled group for 1 day would probobly give you some insight in how fun RvR can be .

Gankgroups...? Team Deathmatch with swords is all gankgroups are, to be honest. That's not why I, or a great many other payers, play DAOC. If I want Team Deathmatch I'll play Quake 3 - which, by the way, requires a lot more direct hands-on skill than DAOC. It's much much faster and more demanding. And if you want to talk skills, I've been in the world top 100 for it in Capture The Flag, the most team-orientated style of Q3 play.
And I've run in groups with Ladonna and Ardamels. Yes, got a lot more RPs with them than with a normal PUG...so what? The gameplay itself was still just run-around-farming-RPs in the end. I was bored, and just kept an eye on the RP meter till I dinged another RR level and could go get the next RA I was after and have fun with it in PvE.
Many RvR players sneer at PvE (and some of them, for some reason, seem to feel it necessary to sneer at PvE players as well), calling it boring - well RvR is boring as well, if you don't like it. Maybe, just maybe, not everyone enjoys the same things in the game you do. Radical concept, eh? My proposal would have NO impact on RvR players' ability to enjoy their part of the game, but it would make it vastly more fun for PvE players, either in terms of getting RAs for high-level PvE or in terms of making RvR less awful. Would you really have a problem with either of those two aims...?

...

 

[Escape]

Just because everyone is capable of learning it doesn't mean they do, however easy to attain skill is a huge factor. Try playing with a n00b on a rr11 char and compare that to a regular GG player on a rr1 char.

Low RR players are not n00bs as you suggested earlier.
n00bs = ebayer or someone who hasn't learnt to play the game after soo many months.

Out of people who know how to play the game, it's not skill that decides the fight, but the group's spec and class abilities. By lowering RA requirements, it will give low RR groups a chance to compete with high RR gank squads.


Gank squads are more likely to have fixed groups and have worked together for months/years. A considerable advantage over random groups... then add the RAs a RR9-10 group will have and there's very little chance for the random group to win. The idea behind this thread is to give that random group all the RA's they'd need to compete, giving them a chance to win and giving the gank squads better fights.

 

[inviteme]

Low RR players are not n00bs as you suggested earlier.
n00bs = ebayer or someone who hasn't learnt to play the game after soo many months.

Out of people who know how to play the game, it's not skill that decides the fight, but the group's spec and class abilities. By lowering RA requirements, it will give low RR groups a chance to compete with high RR gank squads.


Gank squads are more likely to have fixed groups and have worked together for months/years. A considerable advantage over random groups... then add the RAs a RR9-10 group will have and there's very little chance for the random group to win. The idea behind this thread is to give that random group all the RA's they'd need to compete, giving them a chance to win and giving the gank squads better fights.

Yes, perhaps i was abit unclear since i only meant the explicit advantages of being high RR, the implicit ones are however attainable for anyone. My point is that take away all RA:s and they will still beat you 99% of the time, playing with the same people everyday for a long period of time is what makes these groups good, and of course that they have the motivation for it. My point is that removing RA:s wont level the playing field, if you want a level playingfield where n00bs are just as good as other players removing RA:s isnt gonna cut it.

 

[Balbor]

And also totally misunderstood my point Sure, getting max realm skill points at RR5 would even the things between the casual and hardcore players but doing it now, ~2-years after RAs were introduced, would be a very rude slap on high RR players face. Radical changes should be a new game, not an patch or expansion. Good tip is to try to look things in as many differend point of views as possible - removing leveling from the game would be great for those who play because of the RvR but it would surely suck for those who have spent 300 days /played leveling 20 lvl50s ---> not such an good suggestion.

Take a look at ToA for example : were those new bonuses needed? Yes, pre-ToA capping SC-suits was way too easy -> ToA fixed Daoc-PvE (more rewarding). Was it a good thing in general? Hell no, the edge of casual players and hardcore players increased which shouldn't be Mythic's aim, imo. Those bonuses should have been introduced at the same time with SC. I for one had a plan on how much time I have to play and by following that plan I made X amount of lvl50s and got decent gear for them. Thanks to ToA I would have had to spent much more time on playing or playing only one of my characters -> had to retire 6 of my lvl50s -> wasted lots of time -> not a good thing

There should be other rewards for RR6-10, but ones that don't gave such a huge impact on RvR. Like no con penilty in PvE deaths, reduction in RS, Rez spell becoming more effective when can on High RR players

 

[Balbor]

Yes, perhaps i was abit unclear since i only meant the explicit advantages of being high RR, the implicit ones are however attainable for anyone. My point is that take away all RA:s and they will still beat you 99% of the time, playing with the same people everyday for a long period of time is what makes these groups good, and of course that they have the motivation for it. My point is that removing RA:s wont level the playing field, if you want a level playingfield where n00bs are just as good as other players removing RA:s isnt gonna cut it.

many people, including high RRs use BBs. it does get to the point where its doesn't matter how good you are just the person with the best gear, RAs and maybe even a BB wins, even if they are fighting someone thats a better gamer than themself.

 

[inviteme]

You're telling me someone with several levels of Det, Purge, Aug stats, MOBlocking and LW (or whatever) etc doesn't have a huge advantage over a low RR who cannot afford the same RAs yet? Not only does the low RR have less experience in the RvR arena, he or she also simply has less tools available. If the 'skills' RvR players talk about are so impressive, and so important, then even if everyone had the same amount of RAs available then RvR players would still win, yes?

det4 is 12 points or around 12000 RP? purge is indeed an advantage but only so every 30 mins, and a fight wont be won due to 1 tank having purge up or not. MOB3 is 9% unmodified block? or a staggering 4.5% bonus vs dualwielders, lw1 is 1 point and many dont find it useful at all. If this is the reason you are loosing i suggest getting another relic worth 10% instead?
The real powercards arent gonna get played against you anyway, since its a waste. The only thing you got right was that RvR players whould still win.

And more fun is surely an unequivocally good thing?

Read the entire paragraph, taking things out of context is boring.

Ah, like the imbalance between high and low RR, yes?

Exactly my point, the advantage that RA:s give high RR gankgroups isnt an issue for n00bs like you.

There is such a situation for low RRs nowadays. They're up against people who not only have more experience but who have just inherently tougher/stronger etc characters. It's totally stacked against low RRs at the moment, far more than it was when RvR started up because everyone was low RR then. There were no high-RR groups out there at that point - if there had been, the problems and inequalities in RvR now would have become immediately apparent.
And having the deck stacked against you in two ways (experience/skill AND stats/abilities) is no way feel encouraged to go join in...at least making the RA playing field level by the time you hit RR5 would make things a bit less intimidating and depressing for low RRs, you wouldn't feel quite so helpless.

I guess it whould have a placebo effect for a few days. But i agree that it's harder to start out with a slight stat disadvantage. But no way in hell close to what you try to make it out, since ive actually done rr1-6 in a rr1-3 group AGAINST high RR groups. I fail to see why anyone else couldnt do the same aswell.

Huh? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Since your a PvE guy thats the relation we whould share in PvE if we compared our RvR experiences.

More flaming of PvE players by RvR players. Interesting. You are aware that going around calling people 'n00bs' has a tendency to just make you look like the worst kind of arrogant RvR-elitist? And FYI I've been playing, and playing a LOT, since August 2002.

I whouldnt hesitate to flame a RvR player either, theres morons in both camps. Actually showing people why they are wrong, especially in a public forum and with the tone i use is what makes you think im an arrogant RvR-elitist. if you have played for 2 years without learning what the community expect from the word n00b your either dumb or soloing.

Gankgroups...? Team Deathmatch with swords is all gankgroups are, to be honest. That's not why I, or a great many other payers, play DAOC. If I want Team Deathmatch I'll play Quake 3 - which, by the way, requires a lot more direct hands-on skill than DAOC. It's much much faster and more demanding. And if you want to talk skills, I've been in the world top 100 for it in Capture The Flag, the most team-orientated style of Q3 play.
And I've run in groups with Ladonna and Ardamels. Yes, got a lot more RPs with them than with a normal PUG...so what? The gameplay itself was still just run-around-farming-RPs in the end. I was bored, and just kept an eye on the RP meter till I dinged another RR level and could go get the next RA I was after and have fun with it in PvE.

Not to be rude, but ladonna and ardamel is an example of a bad RvR group. I've also never said anything about Q3 that whould prevent you from playing it, i agree that it's alot faster pace than daoc tho. Yea, and the gameplay of soccer is a ball and 22 men, what your point?

Many RvR players sneer at PvE (and some of them, for some reason, seem to feel it necessary to sneer at PvE players as well), calling it boring - well RvR is boring as well, if you don't like it. Maybe, just maybe, not everyone enjoys the same things in the game you do. Radical concept, eh? My proposal would have NO impact on RvR players' ability to enjoy their part of the game, but it would make it vastly more fun for PvE players, either in terms of getting RAs for high-level PvE or in terms of making RvR less awful. Would you really have a problem with either of those two aims...?
...

Both aim's i agree with, but i doubt your means whould have that effect.
I never said everyone enjoy the same things that i do, i assumed you wanted to have a chance against gank groups, a level playing field as you put it. However you fail to realise that the advantage a gank group holds over a n00bgroup isnt RA:s, its also alot of skill. I could whine that i wanted Q3 to be fair (i dont know the maps/guns/jumppoints/spawns) but refuse to learn them, or practice at all, but of course the only reason you whould win is because you can find the rail and i cant!!1

 

[Shike]

There should be other rewards for RR6-10, but ones that don't gave such a huge impact on RvR. Like no con penilty in PvE deaths, reduction in RS, Rez spell becoming more effective when can on High RR players

would rather see a tonedown of RAs alltogether tbh.

 

[Arindra]

The logical extension of this would be to apply titles and not abilities for ML6-10. And similarly, to reward artifact or legendary dungeon encounters with baubles rather than equipment.

As it stands....

PvE players get specific abilities and rewards for pve encounters.

RvR players get specific abilities and rewards for rvr encounters.

The best balance for most people is to do some of each.

I don't see how this is a bad thing.

 

[Shike]

seems to me some ppl just want everything without doing what it actually takes to get it.

 

[inviteme]

The logical extension of this would be to apply titles and not abilities for ML6-10. And similarly, to reward artifact or legendary dungeon encounters with baubles rather than equipment.

As it stands....

PvE players get specific abilities and rewards for pve encounters.

RvR players get specific abilities and rewards for rvr encounters.

The best balance for most people is to do some of each.

I don't see how this is a bad thing.

In a game most people want to be rewarded for things they like, that in turn affect the character in a area important to them. PvE whores are forced to do some RvR, and RvR gents are forced to do some PvE. The best thing whould be a plethora of content where you never was forced to do anything and got instant rewards, theres no game that simulates drug abuse tho .

 

[Shike]

In a game most people want to be rewarded for things they like, that in turn affect the character in a area important to them. PvE whores are forced to do some RvR, and RvR gents are forced to do some PvE. The best thing whould be a plethora of content where you never was forced to do anything and got instant rewards, theres no game that simulates drug abuse tho .

wouldnt it be kinda boring if you got everything served on a silverplatter?

 

[Margaret]

PvE whores

RvR gents

Stop that.

 

[Svartmetall]

seems to me some ppl just want everything without doing what it actually takes to get it.

What, like RvR players wanting to level purely from RvR kills and do no PvE at all?

 

[Svartmetall]

det4 is 12 points or around 12000 RP? purge is indeed an advantage but only so every 30 mins, and a fight wont be won due to 1 tank having purge up or not. MOB3 is 9% unmodified block? or a staggering 4.5% bonus vs dualwielders, lw1 is 1 point and many dont find it useful at all. If this is the reason you are loosing i suggest getting another relic worth 10% instead?

You know what I meant. Don't get bogged down in the particular RAs I quoted, I just mentioned the first ones off the top of my head. Also the very high cost of RAs in NF is going to make it even harder for low RRs to feel like they're geting a tangible return on the time invested in RvR.

The only thing you got right was that RvR players whould still win.

Right, so why do some RvR players seem to have such a problem with my suggestion?

Exactly my point, the advantage that RA:s give high RR gankgroups isnt an issue for n00bs like you.

Yet more namecalling from RvR players, and if RAs aren't an issue then why insist that people who hate RvR be forced to endure a subjective eternity of it to get all the RAs they need?

I guess it whould have a placebo effect for a few days. But i agree that it's harder to start out with a slight stat disadvantage.

It's extremely discouraging to be low RR and go against high RR people who are both more skilled at RvR AND have better stats/abilities etc. Calling it 'slight' is to gravely understate the situation for low RRs nowadays.

if you have played for 2 years without learning what the community expect from the word n00b your either dumb or soloing.

Using the word 'n00b' just shows someone to be both arrogant and ignorant.

Not to be rude, but ladonna and ardamel is an example of a bad RvR group.

More arrogance.

Yea, and the gameplay of soccer is a ball and 22 men, what your point?

The point was obvious - that RvR players find running around killing players endlessly for RPs to be fun, but that not everyone does. In fact if RvR's such great fun and everyone wants to do it, how come most people aren't out n the frontiers all the time?

Both aim's i agree with, but i doubt your means whould have that effect.

I don't, I think giving all players all RA points by RR5 would be a very positive step for the game as a whole and RvR in particular. And for the RvR players who appear to think that PvE players should be forced to endure RvR for ages even though they hate it - we'd still have to reach RR5, which is a hell of a lot of RPs to have to accumulate when you don't enjoy the process of getting them.

I never said everyone enjoy the same things that i do, i assumed you wanted to have a chance against gank groups, a level playing field as you put it.

No, I've made it very clear that what I would like is a far faster and more efficient way for everybody to get their RAs, either for PvE or RvR. In my case it would be a case of get to RR5 - in other words, all the RAs I want - and never have to RvR again.

I could whine that i wanted Q3 to be fair

Q3 is fair, it's a 100% level playing field...unlike DAOC. My suggestion would level the playing field for all, just a little, maybe just enough to help low RRs feel less put off by it all.

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