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Wij
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- #31
So is Plotinus or Immanuel Kant your meta-ethics-hero ? 
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nothing
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- #32
not sure, ain't finished Sophie's World yet.
It's probably Sophie, actually.
It's probably Sophie, actually.
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Guest
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- #33
You're right of course, and I've been (pleasantly) surprised at the reasoned responses to your original post.
It would, however, be nice to know that there's a place where I can go without being reminded of all the shit that's happening around us.
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xenon2000
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- #34
I guess Kez's point about lack of intersesting threads on the "SPAM" thread kinda paid off, huh?
Congrats peeps on the detailed arguments
carry on now...
Congrats peeps on the detailed arguments
carry on now...
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Embattle
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- #35
There is only one place, space.
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old.Quorthon
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- #36
Originally posted by xenon2000
I guess Kez's point about lack of intersesting threads on the "SPAM" thread kinda paid off, huh?
Congrats peeps on the detailed arguments
carry on now...
Xenon m8,
Its like I said on same thread, the xmas season could really be called silly season, and has spawned some ludicrous threads, which while fun while they lasted, are not the bread and butter of boards like these. I think a thread like this proves that most peeps around here, know when a subject is to be treated seriously, so while a thread about the best film of 2k might for example be turned into one about oooh shoolgirls or summat (U KNOW WHO YOU ARE M8
) summat like this gets a bit more diplomatic treatment. A good start to the new year lads.
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old.TUG
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- #37
reminds me of big brother and that was just as nasty...
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bodhi
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- #38
SoWat and ono, so Moo, SPAM and "I hate washing" had a lot to do with gaming didnt they.
Anyway concerning the Jamie Bulger killers. In my opinion "not knowing any better" is not an excuse for their actions. What they did was probably one of the most horrible crimes in recent memory (I have 3 nephews, all around the same age as Jamie Bulger), and for me the punishment should fit the crime (Cut off their Goolies should ring a bell with all you Not the Nine o Clock news fans out there). Considering its probably safer for them to be inside (witness paedophile vigilantes - only probably much worse), I honestly believe they shouldnt be released at all. As for them remaining anonymous, I dont believe that will be possible tbh. Like someone said, the anonmymity only applies in England an Wales, so it would be perfectly feasible for the scottish Sun to print everything.
Its a shit world we live in really innit. ah well.
Anyway concerning the Jamie Bulger killers. In my opinion "not knowing any better" is not an excuse for their actions. What they did was probably one of the most horrible crimes in recent memory (I have 3 nephews, all around the same age as Jamie Bulger), and for me the punishment should fit the crime (Cut off their Goolies
should ring a bell with all you Not the Nine o Clock news fans out there). Considering its probably safer for them to be inside (witness paedophile vigilantes - only probably much worse), I honestly believe they shouldnt be released at all. As for them remaining anonymous, I dont believe that will be possible tbh. Like someone said, the anonmymity only applies in England an Wales, so it would be perfectly feasible for the scottish Sun to print everything. Its a shit world we live in really innit. ah well.
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*Kornholio*
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- #39
To quote James Hetfield : "Justice is lost, justice is raped, justice is gone... pulling your strings - justice is done"
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Mr B
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- #40
...seeking no truth, winning is all, find it so grim, so true, so real...
:/
:/
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*Kornholio*
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- #41
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old.Quorthon
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- #42
oh fuck, dont remind me that Metallica were once a band worth following.
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Mr B
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- #43
I take it you missed the release of the Cunning Stunts DVD
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old.Quorthon
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- #44
yes, deliberately on purpose liek
I shall line their pockets no more.
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I shall line their pockets no more.
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Mr B
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- #45
That's alright, I bough the VHS and the DVD version
I regularly line the pockets of British Rail, who provide me with possibly the WORST service imaginable...I am quite prepared to line the pockets of people who's "services" I actually appreciate
I regularly line the pockets of British Rail, who provide me with possibly the WORST service imaginable...I am quite prepared to line the pockets of people who's "services" I actually appreciate
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*Kornholio*
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- #46
I've got the Cunning Stunts dvd too... pretty cool
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old.Quorthon
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- #47
Oh dear, you poor people, anyway this is OT so If you want to continue the discussion about how Metallica are crap now compared to the way they used to be, I would be more than willing to share my views on another thread
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Embattle
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- #48
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nothing
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- #49
To Wij: it's Kant. I also have a negation for Decartes' approach to philosophy if you want to hear it. Just email me: mungo2jerry@yahoo.com
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xenon2000
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- #50
TUG, I really am ashamed of you
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xenon2000
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- #51
Nah really, that sort of thing (embs last post) is sick. I mean; why the hell are people interested in child porn? 13+under year old girls hardly have much to desire in the body department as it is (TUG, you stay out of this one ), and to publicly spread your fantasies about them on the net sucks bigtime.
), and to publicly spread your fantasies about them on the net sucks bigtime.
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nothing
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- #52
I quite agree. And seriously, the only kind of person that would do that is one who is so pathetic he can't pick up a girl and has to spend his sick fantasies through graphic representation.
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old.TUG
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- #53
Even I agree with this... child porn and often subsequently affiliated acts of abuse are just plain not on AT ALL and having rings on the net secretly being sick cunts is just sad as hell and I'm glad those guys were caught.
Yeah I know I say I like schoolgirls here and there but they are all 15+ and it aint about anything... erm... sexual
Yeah I know I say I like schoolgirls here and there but they are all 15+ and it aint about anything... erm... sexual
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*Kornholio*
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- #54
My opinion : They should either be strung up by thier bollocks, or locked in a room with that bollock biting bird from the other thread... sad people...
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ReActor
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- #55
10,000 pictures. Each. That's the part I can't get over. I had no idea that there was that amount of child pornography going on, on the internet.
"This has got to send out the message that you can't hide on the Net"
Maybe, but the message it sends to me is that if people can hide over a million pictures of child porn on the net for several years, WTF else is going on out there that we don't have a clue about? The internet has got a long way to go.
But that raises another question - do we want to get there? I mean, to a point where net traffic is meticulously policed? I don't know enough about the technical side, or the law to comment, but I'd like to see other people's views.
BTW, it's great to see this sort of discussion going on, no matter where. Perhaps because it reminds me that some people who post here do have brains, and interests outside entertainment.
"This has got to send out the message that you can't hide on the Net"
Maybe, but the message it sends to me is that if people can hide over a million pictures of child porn on the net for several years, WTF else is going on out there that we don't have a clue about? The internet has got a long way to go.
But that raises another question - do we want to get there? I mean, to a point where net traffic is meticulously policed? I don't know enough about the technical side, or the law to comment, but I'd like to see other people's views.
BTW, it's great to see this sort of discussion going on, no matter where. Perhaps because it reminds me that some people who post here do have brains, and interests outside entertainment.
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stu
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- #56
ooh, interesting.
Not going to reply to everything.
On the original topic, to everyone who has posted their opinions, most were reasonably well thought out/intelligible. However before you make your minds up either way about the rights/wrongs of the ruling (especially by going so extreme as saying "the entire judicial system is crap"), can I suggest you actually read it? And the case files too, if you're that interested. Do yourselves enough justice not to be drawn into the obvious media trial that this whole event started.
Don't forget the media is there for one reason, and one reason only. Not to provide you with unbiased news for thoughtful discussion. Not to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me god/allah/jehovah/insert deity here. But to sell papers. As a result, they will print anything suitably sensationalist, regardless of accuracy. Read the actual judgement, and the judge's summation, and I think many of you may change your perspective.
Moving on - child pr0n is 'sick' yes. It's illegal, yes. Does it mean we should police the net? In my opinion, no. People will always have their own little diversities and foibles (and if you think I'm 'belittling' child porn, remember things are only 'sick' if society as a whole doesn't agree with them, eg cannabalism was perfectly acceptable amongst many societies for a fair amount of time), and people will always find a way to express or get off on them. Policing the net would not have stopped this occurring, because by the very nature of what these people were involved in (ie it is morally, legally and socially condemned), it is kept secret regardless. Hence, anything that is sufficiently abhorrent to cause a major calling for such a restriction would be unaffected by the restriction anyway.
And finally, Metallica are pants
Not going to reply to everything.
On the original topic, to everyone who has posted their opinions, most were reasonably well thought out/intelligible. However before you make your minds up either way about the rights/wrongs of the ruling (especially by going so extreme as saying "the entire judicial system is crap"), can I suggest you actually read it? And the case files too, if you're that interested. Do yourselves enough justice not to be drawn into the obvious media trial that this whole event started.
Don't forget the media is there for one reason, and one reason only. Not to provide you with unbiased news for thoughtful discussion. Not to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me god/allah/jehovah/insert deity here. But to sell papers. As a result, they will print anything suitably sensationalist, regardless of accuracy. Read the actual judgement, and the judge's summation, and I think many of you may change your perspective.
Moving on - child pr0n is 'sick' yes. It's illegal, yes. Does it mean we should police the net? In my opinion, no. People will always have their own little diversities and foibles (and if you think I'm 'belittling' child porn, remember things are only 'sick' if society as a whole doesn't agree with them, eg cannabalism was perfectly acceptable amongst many societies for a fair amount of time), and people will always find a way to express or get off on them. Policing the net would not have stopped this occurring, because by the very nature of what these people were involved in (ie it is morally, legally and socially condemned), it is kept secret regardless. Hence, anything that is sufficiently abhorrent to cause a major calling for such a restriction would be unaffected by the restriction anyway.
And finally, Metallica are pants
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old.Quorthon
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- #57
Originally posted by Stu-
ooh, interesting.
Moving on - child pr0n is 'sick' yes. It's illegal, yes. Does it mean we should police the net? In my opinion, no. People will always have their own little diversities and foibles (and if you think I'm 'belittling' child porn, remember things are only 'sick' if society as a whole doesn't agree with them, eg cannabalism was perfectly acceptable amongst many societies for a fair amount of time), and people will always find a way to express or get off on them. Policing the net would not have stopped this occurring, because by the very nature of what these people were involved in (ie it is morally, legally and socially condemned), it is kept secret regardless. Hence, anything that is sufficiently abhorrent to cause a major calling for such a restriction would be unaffected by the restriction anyway.
And finally, Metallica are pants
Stu, I dont agree with net censorship either, but it has to be said that the net undoubtedly has made it easier than at any other time in history to get this kind of thing. Now the really seriously deviant types will find a way of getting it anyway, but I suspect that no matter what you might think, that maybe 7 or more out of the 10 individuals who have been arrested might never have gotten into this but for the ease of access through the internet. I think therefore that it is proper that the net be policed as it is at the moment, ie most stuff is left alone with particular focus and targetting of the more heinous stuff that exists.
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Guest
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- #58
Censorship, in any form, is the thin end of the wedge. Governments will expand any powers they have (look at MI5/6's new role, and the RIP bill)
The real question is whether we accept censorship as a necessary evil, or whether we decide to function as responsible adults, without the 'guiding' hand of government.
I personally feel that each individual (adult) should be responsible for his/her own actions. If they do something illegal, then they shouldn't be surprised at the consequences.
I really do feel that governments the world over have infringed on the personal liberties of their citizens. Not by introducing sudden, draconian laws, but by the steady drip, drip, drip of legislation designed, supposedly, to get the 'bad guys' (drug dealers, porn merchants, whatever).
The real question is whether we accept censorship as a necessary evil, or whether we decide to function as responsible adults, without the 'guiding' hand of government.
I personally feel that each individual (adult) should be responsible for his/her own actions. If they do something illegal, then they shouldn't be surprised at the consequences.
I really do feel that governments the world over have infringed on the personal liberties of their citizens. Not by introducing sudden, draconian laws, but by the steady drip, drip, drip of legislation designed, supposedly, to get the 'bad guys' (drug dealers, porn merchants, whatever).
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old.Quorthon
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- #59
Problem is Sowat, this would be fine if you could trust each adult to take the right decision every time - fact is a lot of them dont, so enforcement has to be introduced for the rest of us.
If you apply your way of thinking to the extreme, why have motorway police or speed cameras? We all know we should stay within the speed limit, not drink and drive etc, but if there was no enforecment there, lives would be lost in greater numbers than they are today. Merely stating that everybody should be responsible for their own actions and will be punished should they be caught, would reduce society to anarchy. This is merely another form of law enforcement.
Now I dont agree that, for example, the powers of the govt should extend into political web comment, or other adult areas that would be acceptable if only they werent on the internet.
I do believe in this case however, that the combined police forces have done the world a good turn by breaking up this ring, and I hope they are given resources to break some more. After all, I am sure this is only the tip of the iceberg.
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*Kornholio*
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- #60
I think that statement just about sums it up for me... we all have had the freedom to do as we wish with the internet, and some complete numb-nuts have screwed it up, forcing the law to get involved... now we're all gonna get policed, whether we like it or not...