Proposed Duel League

[Mr_Horus]

Me and my mate FatnaP ane planning to run a QW Duel Leageu.
Before we go any furtherm we would like to make sure players are interested in it, so what follows is a brief run down of some of our planes.

The l33t Plan: =]

Scoring
Rather than having the usual 3 points for a win system, we are going to follow the Goal Difference" system used in most foot ball leages. That means your Frag Difference is your score.
To work out your FD, subtract the ammount of frags scored against you from the ammount of frags you have scored. Simple (we hope).
Players are ranked in order of their Frag Difference.
This, we believe, will allow for a more competitive leage and make it less "stuffy".

Structure
We are currently aiming for 3 Divisions of 10 players each for a smooth running, manageable leage.
Obviously, if there aremore then 30 applicants then we wil more then likey add a few more divisions.

Ping
This is a thorny issue and one we are currently undecided one. We currently favour mixed divisions but some people want separate LPB and HPW Divisions and this is something you should comment on in your mail.

Enjoyment
QW is nearing the end of it's lifetime and we see no sense on another rigid league with tough rules so we would like all the players, above all, to enjoy themselves. Obviously cheating is not allowed as it ruins the game not only for the cheater but for everyone else.
Generally follow two rules:
i) Do unto others as you would wish done tuno yourself
ii) Dont take the piss


Well, if you are interested then please mail me at horus@quakeclan.net and i will get back to you with further information.
Even if you no longer play QW then now may be a good time to dust off your Quake CD and instal it again and rediscover your old joys =]

 

[old.EmryS]

Sounds good to me, mad dueller that I am

I would have to say that regarding the ping rules you should go for separate leagues, unless there are some HPB's who actually want to be in the LPB league. No LPB's should be allowed into the HPB league.

Easy?

Frag difference. Well, that's going to cause a problem IMO. Here's why: on DM4 a good player will expect to whop a duff player with maybe a 30 or 40 frag difference, on another level say DM2 or DM6 a good player (even a map specialist) would expect to whop a duff player with maybe a 15 or 20 frag difference at the most.

So what you will end up with is people winning leagues based on which maps they are good at, and not how skilled they are.

(In other words... your football analogy would work if all games were played on the same maps but they're not).

I would say go for the following scoring system:

- 2 points for a win
- 1 point for a draw
- 0 points for a loss
- -1 points for a 0 or lower score (evil grin)

Just my 2 1/2 pence worth, but there you have it.

 

[Mr_Horus]

Good point.
It could be an option to have each fixture comprised of 2 games and have each player choose a map.
Only problem is that people will tend to always choose the map they are best at so we may intorduce soome sort of limit on how many times you can choose each map or something along those lines.

 

[HangTime]

imo basing rankings soley on frag diff biases the league hugely in favour of dm4 players. like emrys says, in order to keep pace with the top guys u would basically have to pick dm4, just to stand a chance of getting a 30frag+ win. i would say eg winning 12-0 on dm2 is more impressive than winning 20-0 on dm4.

u could end up with a riduculous situation whereby a player who wins all his games doesnt win the league, because he isnt too hot on dm4 and so doesnt rack up enuff frags.

 

[old.SpookyD]

Hmm, remember that the recent QWDuel league went under after it's first week. I think that was due to the mixed LPB/HPW's and the lack of a rigid schedule for playing matches (two people could play their match at anytime during the week it was set - no admins were used).

Are you intent on having a similar match schedule system or will the time and date for each match be set as it is scheduled?

 

[Mr_Horus]

We intend using a fixed schedule. We arrange the times and you turn up and play.
Nice and clean.
Oh and HangTime, i hope you are not the same hangtime that i kicked off a server the other day for using an aimbot are you? Cos cheating is not acceptable in this league.

 

[HangTime]

well imo newbie admins who can't tell the difference between reasonable aim on an lpb connection and an aimbot shouldnt be allowed either.

 

[Mr_Horus]

"Reasonable aim" is one thing, aimbots are another.
From my point of view you were usingone and thats final. Read your other thread if you want, whatever.
The matter is closed.

 

[old.Goatblower]

Just a couple of points before the discussion gets too heated

Taazman recently organised a duel league, not sure how it is going or even if it still is. maybe a quick chat with him might help you gauge the support and likely success of doing one.Get him on taazman@cableinet.com or usually in b/w irc #tsr.

Second point. I've always wondered how you can tell if somebody is using an aimbot or is just damn good. (from my quake success I reckon everybody must have one )

Goatee

 

[old.SpookyD]

Originally posted by Goatblower
Taazman recently organised a duel league, not sure how it is going or even if it still is. maybe a quick chat with him might help you gauge the support and likely success of doing one.Get him on taazman@cableinet.com or usually in b/w irc #tsr.

It died.
Not enough interest apparently, only a few of the matches were actually played.

Second point. I've always wondered how you can tell if somebody is using an aimbot or is just damn good. (from my quake success I reckon everybody must have one )

IMO it's easy to spot bots. Flickery LG (moving from one point to another without stopping firing and without leaving a trail in the process) gives it away nicely. And no matter what, humans miss from time to time. Bot's don't.

There isn't much of a problem in leagues when qizmo usage is forced, so I wouldn't worry about bots for now.

 

[old.Goatblower]

Cheers for bot info SpookyD....shit, their not using bots then, I really am that crap

[Edited by Goatblower on 24-09-00 at 23:19]

 

[lecter]

SpookyD, it is easy to spot a bot user but not in the way you are talking about. An intelligent user of a bot could indeed hide its usage, shotgun fights for example, its impossible to tell whether someone is using a bot or not. Shaft is the obvious choice of a bot user, however, it doesnt take a genius to work out that if you use the bot to aim after you have started shooting (reasonably accurately) at someone. It will mask the bot.

I dont generally wield accusations against ppl for bot usage because I know u just cant tell by sight. A good indicator (but not a perfect one) is to record a first person demo and use qizmo playback at around 5-10 percent speed, if the movement is unnatural then its a bot. Much like the detection of the submarine in the hunt for red october.

HangTime, you do yourself no favours, your own actions determine how ppl treat you. You are not THE authority on QW, infact in the grand scheme of things you are just another person with too much time and too much ego. I have been around a long time, and my behaviour isnt impeccable either. But one thing I am good at is judging characters, the reason I chose Horus as an admin above you is because he showed a willingness to help and make personal sacrifice. The feedback I get from yourself, rightly or wrongly, is a very selfish one.

Horus, I know ur new to this, I expect you to make mistakes. You dont need to prove to anyone else that u are an adequate admin. So keep ur eyes peeled, but dont get trigger happy.

Prom/St0rm: calm down and shut ur mouths.

Everyone else, abuse of an public admin is a kickable offence. So watch what you say. QW is not dead, its alive and kicking. But it will die if ppl are coninually arguing.

 

[old.SpookyD]

Originally posted by lecter
SpookyD, it is easy to spot a bot user but not in the way you are talking about. An intelligent user of a bot could indeed hide its usage, shotgun fights for example, its impossible to tell whether someone is using a bot or not. Shaft is the obvious choice of a bot user, however, it doesnt take a genius to work out that if you use the bot to aim after you have started shooting (reasonably accurately) at someone. It will mask the bot.

Maybe so but I'm sticking with the idea that bots can't miss (unless they are very badly lagged). Repeatedly good shaft aim (when it's an unrealistic weapon for the cirsumstances, usually long distance firing) just looks plain dodgy. Especially if the bot user has fired off a few shotguns, misses with one or two then comes off with this devestating shaft.

I dont generally wield accusations against ppl for bot usage because I know u just cant tell by sight. A good indicator (but not a perfect one) is to record a first person demo and use qizmo playback at around 5-10 percent speed, if the movement is unnatural then its a bot. Much like the detection of the submarine in the hunt for red october.

The problem could be much reduced in a community where people knew exactly who they were playing against on a server. In this case it's risky for someone to use a bot since their whole reputation would be ruined should they be found out (and it would only be a matter of time). There was a time when it was actually like that.

Of course, people have now decided that aliasing is the best thing in the world ever, thus totally fucking up that idea. Ah well.

 

[Mr_Horus]

Please please!
This thread is for my duel league, not for debating detecting bots

 

[old.Dynamic]

The Duel league is a good idea and id be very interested on joining if/when it gets setup.

However i know u said this isnt a thread for discussing bots Horus, though you brought it up first, but after reading above i gotta make a reply.

From personal experience in playing Hangtime ive never once had cause of thought to think hes an aimbot, he just has a very competant aim and good lg. Accusations of things like that, especially on a public forum, is uncalled for and insensitive as there is no proof of it.

Same with you Lecter, no matter what someones attitude may seem in your eyes, it doesnt mean they deserve being called a cheat and being kicked from servers, not in Hangtimes case anyway.

Just my slightly longwinded say in a matter i found to be unfair and unjust, keep opinions to yourself unless you have proof.

dyn

 

[old.XC-Makaveli]

Duel League

Id be interested ..

 

[old.ripe-prom]

Horus: Here are the facts about HT being kicked from bw ffa that night by yourself.

1) storm and I notoriously hate HT's amazing lg, I guarantee to you that no matter how jammy it is, it isn't a bot.

2) storm and I notoriously take the piss out of HT's bald head.

3) storm is also clinically bald

4) no offence but we played on your gullibility as a none frequent qw admin and got ht kicked because we'd spent over an hour whining about being pinned all over the place by him

5) storm really is clinically bald, his portrait can be found on http://www.stileproject.com/assman.html

6) pld

 

[Mr_Horus]

=]

 

[old.ripe-prom]

erm just read the rest of this thread, first of all, lecter you may be an admin on bw but your own post shows a rather large egotistical tint on the proceedings. secondly, don't ever tell me to shut my hole again, that's pure insolence and you should remember i won't stand for it in any way shape or form.

No matter how much i swear and call you cunts I should never be told to shut my hole ESPECIALLY unprovoked, I think I earned my right to an opinion after years and hundreds of pounds spent playing this game, same as storm, same as HT. HT is not a vastly selfish person as you so unprofessionally pointed out either, he is infact a nice guy who plays a lot of quake and is good at it, remember you were and are part of the community but you're meant to be a figure of authority now and a PAID one at that.

 

[lecter]

Prom far too many times have you moaned like fuck when there is an aimbot on BWFFA. Seeing as it is part of my job I have to check it out. You and you alone waste my time more than anyone else. Even if its not you moaning about aimbots in #barrysworld, someone else will come and do it for you "there have been complaints about aimbots".

Just cos you spent hundreds of pounds doesnt give you the right to act like a cunt, there is no loyalty green card here. This is not a personal attack on you, you know full well I would glady sit in a pub and talk to you.

Yes my wages are paid by BarrysWorld. But thats because I am a systems administrator. Not game admin. I was a game admin long before I was employed. Nowhere is this in my contract. I myself find it very hard to determine what is defined as work and what is not. Talking to ppl on IRC for instance, is that part of my job, your guess is as good as mine.

 

[old.ripe-prom]

point taken my lovely.

BUT! I've detected a lot of bots previously, HT is not one of them though, although I think some sort of hair loss/receding penalty should be put in place at least

 

[Mr_Horus]

Speaking of pubs, why dont we all have a nice big pissup and forget all this? =]