Pope's comments on Islam, what do you think?

[Lamp]

He got shot cos he didn't stop when the officers from SO19 yelled at him "STOP ! Armed Police ! Hit the deck". Maybe he didn't understand the English words, but someone pointing a gun at you is universal language to don't move. Did he deserve it ? Absolutely not.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Then again, if i was running for an important meeting in a crowded tube terminal, i wouldn't notice some shouts etc and pointed guns either.

But if they came in my sight, i'd be quick to ask for some ID before going brucel lee on them

 

[Mojo]

I'd have to say, why WOULDN'T they shoot white people too. I bet some white extremists are planning a massive bombing even now and chuckle in their beards as they know no white person can't be blamed.

It's just silly.

Well when the IRA were running their campaign they would have been more likely to and im sure when white muslims start bombing etc they will. But as it stands atm white extremist are not doing this suff and when they do it would be resonable for Police to start shooting innocent white people too

 

[Lamp]

You seen those net guns ? They look gr8 fun. You could have soooo much fun netting ppl with those - particularly traffic wardens

 

[Chronictank]

Apologies, he didnt walk all the way he walked into the station and ran for the train

CCTV footage is said to show the man walking at normal pace into the station, picking up a copy of a free newspaper and apparently passing through the barriers before descending the escalator to the platform and running to a train.

He boarded a Tube train, paused, looking left and right, and sat in a seat facing the platform.

The eyewitness has subsequently told a newspaper that the man he saw vaulting the barrier must have been a police officer.

Leaked evidence
In one of the leaked documents, said to be a statement from one of the police surveillance team designated Hotel 3, the witness describes hearing shouting - including the word "police".

The statement says Mr Menezes stood up and advanced towards the witness and armed police.

He adds: "I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side."

He said he pushed the man back into his seat.

It was only after he had restrained him that he heard a gun shot.

The documents say that a post-mortem examination showed Mr Menezes had been shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, but that three other bullets had missed him.

 

[Calaen]

I am probably gonna sound like a cock but I would take the police shooting 1 random guy and potentially saving god knows how many others every time.

If someone pulled a gun on me why the fuck would I turn my back to them and run?

7 shots was overboard but you gotta be sure they aint gonna go boom.

 

[Chronictank]

I am probably gonna sound like a cock but I would take the police shooting 1 random guy and potentially saving god knows how many others every time.

If someone pulled a gun on me why the fuck would I turn my back to them and run?

7 shots was overboard but you gotta be sure they aint gonna go boom.

he was shot after he was restrained, he was pinned down and shot.
That is not shooting someone who is getting away, that is cold blooded murder
And they potentially saved noone, because they had no proof he was a suicide bomber to go on other than the fact he happened to live in a building being monitored

 

[tris-]

And they potentially saved noone, because they had no proof he was a suicide bomber to go on other than the fact he happened to live in a building being monitored

so potentially the action could of saved people.

 

[Chronictank]

so potentially the action could of saved people.

so if they were to storm your house now, shoot you in the head
are they potentially stopping a terrorist bombing?
ofc not

 

[Calaen]

Having a terrorist in your hands does not stop him pressing or releasing a trigger. Better to take him out and ask the question later. It was unfortunate, but if he was not here illegally he would not have been scared to talk to police.

Under the circumstances they did what they had to do, it made me a little safer knowing that they wouldnt hesitate to kill one of the fuckers if they had to. It sends out a message to any others thinking about doing it.

 

[Lamp]

Under the circumstances they did what they had to do, it made me a little safer knowing that they wouldnt hesitate to kill one of the fuckers if they had to. It sends out a message to any others thinking about doing it.

Not really.

The bloke they shot wasn't "one of the fuckers". Firearms officers have always been prepared to use lethal force if they have to. And this doesn't send out any message. Its not going to stop terrorists determined to blow people up. It didn't exactly bolster public confidence in the Met

 

[Calaen]

Not really.

The bloke they shot wasn't "one of the fuckers". Firearms officers have always been prepared to use lethal force if they have to. And this doesn't send out any message. Its not going to stop terrorists determined to blow people up. It didn't exactly bolster public confidence in the Met

I was more confident after the incident. Nothing but death to all of them and their families will stop Terrorists.

 

[Lamp]

I was more confident after the incident. Nothing but death to all of them and their families will stop Terrorists.

I agree but the point was, they shot an innocent man. Next time it could be you, a friend, a family member. I doubt you'd feel the same if they shot someone you loved.

 

[Calaen]

oh I agree, but it if the circumstances were the same I would still question the need to run away. It was difficult everyone was on alert.

 

[Dahakon]

Whats the point in the terrorists killing innocent people, if our own government will do it for them?

From what I understand of the eye witness reports: he walked into the station, saw a train, ran to get on it, he then got on the train, sat down, got up when he saw the police, and walked towards them, was then thrown to the floor and held there, then shot in the head 7 times.

Everyone has jumped on the fact that he was here illegally, but that is beside the point, probably the majority of people where I live are here illegally, that doesn't give people to right to shoot them.

The only evidence that the police had that he was a terrorist was that he was in a house that they were monitering, and that he wasn't white. But the police monitor lots of houses with people in them who arn't white, just like there was that other raid on a house where a pair of muslim brothers lived, where one of them got shot (not faitaly tho), but they were both innocent.

This was just another symptom of the whole culture of fear that we are living in now, but personaly I am more scared of what my own government will do, than the people who go to the mosque at the end of my road.

 

[Mojo]

Whats the point in the terrorists killing innocent people, if our own government will do it for them?

Well it's simple it come down to one word. INTENT

Did the police set out intentionally to kill an innocent man, do you think that was their morning brief?

On the other hand the terrorist fully intended to kill an innocent people, that was exactly what their brief was.

It's stupid to compare, it’s the same as comparing casualties of war and collateral damage to terrorism, and it’s a stupidly flawed argument.

 

[Ctuchik]

If someone's waving a gun at me,

good for you. me on the other hand, if there was even a slight chance i'd get away from a maniac pointing a gun at me i'd take it, without a doubt.

because the chanses are i'm gonna die either way as the world is today.

 

[Garok]

Easy to say its MURDER .. But tbh what would you have done if you were the policeman, called to apprehend a suspected terroist weeks after a majour terrosit attack ? Most likely the same the same action he took in the split second you have to decide what action to take.

 

[Calaen]

Thats what it comes down to, I doubt any of the officers unvolved woke up telling themselves they were gonna blow someones brains out.

 

[Dahakon]

I'm sure the police didn't wake up thinking that they were going to shoot someone that day. But their intent seems rather irrelivent, seeing as they still *did* kill an innocent person. Does it matter to the dead person if their death was planned well in advance by someone intending to do it or whether it happened in the heat of the moment? the end result is the same, the innocent person still died. People's intentions arn't that important, its what they do thats important, seeing as its its their actions, not their intentions, that leave the consequences that everyone has to live with.

 

[Mojo]

I'm sure the police didn't wake up thinking that they were going to shoot someone that day. But their intent seems rather irrelivent, seeing as they still *did* kill an innocent person. Does it matter to the dead person if their death was planned well in advance by someone intending to do it or whether it happened in the heat of the moment? the end result is the same, the innocent person still died. People's intentions arn't that important, its what they do thats important, seeing as its its their actions, not their intentions, that leave the consequences that everyone has to live with.

Peoples intentions are very important, it seperates people with pre-meditated ideas from those who do things unintentionally. Our laws refelct this as they do everywhere else in the world (pretty much anyway). 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, manslaughter ring any bells?

Shit happens, and the law takes this into consideration, have u ever done anything by "accident" ? well next time you do ask to be treated and punished as if you had planned the whole thing in advance. Stand by your comments

 

[old.Tohtori]

Actually a few things:

The police probably DID wake up with the thought "God i want to shoot those terrorist bastards" and when a suitable object for anger is given, it's a fuse.

The other one is that, the terrorists have won really. Terror-ist. The nations are in "terror" of terrorist attacks and such, thoughts have changed and places secure arn't that safe anymore.

By the way, i personally never said murder, i said execution. Much like the nazis executioned prisoners or the americans execute terrorist suspects.

 

[Dahakon]

Peoples intentions are very important, it seperates people with pre-meditated ideas from those who do things unintentionally. Our laws refelct this as they do everywhere else in the world (pretty much anyway). 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, manslaughter ring any bells?

Shit happens, and the law takes this into consideration, have u ever done anything by "accident" ? well next time you do ask to be treated and punished as if you had planned the whole thing in advance. Stand by your comments

Again, you have a vaid argument, but an irrelivent one. My original post was about whether the police shoud have shot a man with no evidence to suggest he was a terrorist, other than he was running for a train (which is ofc, what only terrorists do). My post about intentions, wasn't to do with punishing people, but was simply saying that whether the police planed it or not, an innocent person still ended up being killed, when he shouldn't have been. And yes, I don't think they should go to jail for 1st degree murder, but what I meant was that is it any comfort for the victims relatives (or the victim themselves for that matter) if someone was killed intentionally be terrorists, or unintentionally by police? I personaly don't think that knowing either would sooth my grief at the loss of a loved one, thats what I meant about intentions being unimportant in this case, I wasn't talking about punishment of the police officers at all.

The other one is that, the terrorists have won really. Terror-ist. The nations are in "terror" of terrorist attacks and such, thoughts have changed and places secure arn't that safe anymore.

Exactly.

 

[Mojo]

Whats the point in the terrorists killing innocent people, if our own government will do it for them?

I was arguing this comment and comments since, not your original post

 

[Dahakon]

I was arguing this comment and comments since, not your original post

By "original post", I meant my first post about the issues of the shooting, not the earlier ones about the pope's comments, I appologise for any not being clear.

 

[Bugz]

The police probably DID wake up with the thought "God i want to shoot those terrorist bastards" and when a suitable object for anger is given, it's a fuse.

How do you know that?

 

[old.Tohtori]

How do you know that?

How many people around in the world felt like it after the bombings?

Now add that same people are actually trying to secure people.

Now add that they actually have the possibility.

I bet they weren't walking around thinking "Ah another day on the beat, nothing here, nothing there, lovely."

I don't KNOW, but noone KNOWS anything a 100% about other people.

 

[Chronictank]

yrs down the line this will all be someones case study at uni
"how to control a population using fear"

 

[old.Tohtori]

yrs down the line this will all be someones case study at uni
"how to control a population using fear"

The way this world is going, it's rather "How to SUCCESFULLY control a population using fear". There's a difference

And also it's not a case study, but part of the study program.

 

[old.windforce]

i wanna kill everyone with violent intentions