Petition against Turkeys membeship to the EU

[Ning]

I'm against a full membership of Turkey. Economy membership ok but not full membership for 3 reasons :

1) Non acknowledgment of the 1915 Armenian genocide by Turkey Army.
2) Non reconnaissance of a EU member State (Cyprus).
3) Death penalty.

 

[Watchh]

Western culture is the simple culture,just about anything goes..of course every civilisation since the dawn of time has crashed and burned by following that route.

Every civilisation since the dawn of time has crashed and burned . period

 

[Ctuchik]

We aren't racist, we are xenophobic.
We are scared of masses of people who mindlessly believe something we find ridiculous, we fear their power to act as one and destroy our culture from within.

ok, and what if the muslims think the same? explain that one please.

and it doesent really matter what fancy words ur using. at the end of the line its still racism

 

[Melachi]

They have no place in the future of humanity, religion is for the simple-minded, those people who choose to let someone else decide their morality, each has it's own benefits, but overall they are for the weak of mind.

Off topic but..

I used to think like you, rationalize the existance of a god, and then something major happened in my life, and I started to believe. The way I rationalize it now, is that...

What's to gain from believing that there is nothing after death, that you simply cease to exist.
Isn't it more logical to hope that something exists afterwards, if even only as a aide to peace of mind?

 

[Hawkwind]

I'm off to Istanbul on 9th Oct for a week to conduct some training at their national airline. Quite honestly, the people I know and have met there are great people. They are not hard line fundamentalists and in fact the Turkish governement cracks down on hard liners when found. There is more concern within Turkey about the Kurdish and KLA. You will not see that many women wearing the veil in Turkey.

Turkey are not allied to the Arab nations and in fact have close ties to Israel.

So please don't put them is the same band as the fanatics from Saudi, Syria, Egypt, Yemen, Jordan, Pakistan.....

Personally I don't think you should worry too much about Turkish Muslims but rather the fact that you will have many millions of unemployed turks flooding in to Europe. There is a very high unemployement rate in Turkey and the economy is still quite inflationary. They recently changed bank notes to 'New Lira' and knocked 6 0's off the notes.

 

[Adoctor]

fu!! LEFT POWER!

stone him !!!

j/k

 

[Marc]

Any one wanna do a petition to boot all jews outta EU? how about chinese/blacks/russians/pigmies/left handed people ?

too right, boot all "cack handers" out of europe

 

[Job]

ok, and what if the muslims think the same? explain that one please.

and it doesent really matter what fancy words ur using. at the end of the line its still racism

Well it`s not that fancy and it does accurately describe most peoples feelings, they dont dislike foriegners because they have dark skin or because they come from abroad, they are scared of their culture, they fear that these people will bring in different attitudesand that slowly their own culture will be marginalised.

And yes of course Muslims feel the same, they dont want their culture to be swept away by ours, which actually is what is happpening, most young Muslims have turned western, practically no westerners turn Muslim

 

[Deepfat]

These threads are terrible alot of time. One of my best friends is a Muslim and another of my best friends is Turkish.

Turkey may not have the strongest economy but it's not a third world state by any stretch of the imagination. As the only European country to have Islam as the official religion we have an opportunity to build some bridges here. This is an opportunity to strengthen links between Muslim and Christian culture and should be veiwed as such. The cost may seem high but at what amount of money do we consider tolerance, understanding and eventually acceptance to be too high?

 

[Job]

A lot of clever words get used and a lot of intelligent thinking is applied to these issues,but the simple fact is that we are tribes, no different from our ancestors wandering around in packs of a few hundred at the most, they all had their own space and when they met they fought, intergration was a slow and often painful process, to forcefully meld them together in the assumption that intelligence and tolerance will prevail is wishful thinking, it actually does the opposite.

Yes everyone has a friend who is from another culture/race, my girlfriend is half Jamacian (just the bottom half,nice ass) and I get on great with her brothers/family, but that doesn't mean I would be happy if my whole street was full of Blacks and Asians and the obvious culture clash that would entail, it's not very 'correct' to say that, but it's what most whites think and if we don't admit to our real feelings then the debate is fooked from the start.
.

 

[OrreBorre]

their economy is growing rapidly though, (around 9% i think it was? which is higher than india, considered one of the worlds "booming economies" )

so their economy is improving, also turkey is far more liberal than pretty much any other muslim state, the fact that they wont currently own up to the genocide, and their oppresion of kurds is obviously why its going to take up to 10 years for turkey to join, if they do start the talks

Although they have infact stated that they will not have to improve, and still get to join - according to the last talks.

think on it this way: in 10 years time your opinion on the matter will probably be completely different, due to various things such as enlightenment, new facts, other things changing etc

but just saying "turkey cant join cos theyre muslims!!" is kinda silly, yes they will have an impact, but so will the eastern european countries that joined last year.

I'm not saying they can't join because they're muslims, I'm saying that if people want Turkey in the EU, they should seriously consider how this will affect western culture and values, because it definitely will. We will change them, but they will change us too. The major issue here is HOW will we integrate them into our society? Because we have not managed with the ones that are here so far - have we? Look at France, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Germany, list goes on and all of these countries have MAJOR issues with integrating diffrent populations from the middle east, a wide polarization in Europe is not something to look forward to. It's not that I don't believe the "good-will" of the Turks and european leaders, it's rather that I've seen it all go down the drain and I don't see how we are suposed to deal with a twice as big population if we can't deal with the ones that are here now.

whether or not it will be a good change or bad cant really be predicted straight away (i seem to remember all the builders here in the UK complaining about how all the eastern europeans were going to steal all their jobs about a year ago, which of course hasnt happened )

Racist : discriminatory behaviour on the basis of race or religion

www.dictionary.com - Wrong, it's not exactly rocket-science (race-ism). And I didn't discriminate anyone because of their religion, I am just being realistic. Or maybe you two assume that every race only has only one religion? Who's being prejudicial here?

the whole idea of race and religion is of course silly, and turkey is a secular state meaning religion shouldnt be part of their government, so its not really accurate to call it an islamic state, just because the people are islamic.

True, they're holding back extremists in an effective way, question is how the democratic standards of the western world will change this.

its hardly right either to base your views on the fact they are muslims, or even their government is muslim, in germany (as you yourself pointed out) the CDU might come into power, Christian Democratic Union? dont see how a bunch of right-wing christians are any better than a bunch of right-wing muslims tbh

Well, here's a comparison: Iran, Afghanistan in comparison to USA and Germany.

One of the scary subjects is the turkish nationalism, they're rewriting history because of it and no one dared to point a finger at til now. How will the future look like? Will our politicians hide behind their PC-face and hope for the best? I mean, they can't even get Turkey to confirm HISTORY itself. It's ridiculous.

...except of course that if turkey was part of the EU they would likely be forced to be more moderate in some of their practices

See my question above.

 

[OrreBorre]

ok, and what if the muslims think the same? explain that one please.

and it doesent really matter what fancy words ur using. at the end of the line its still racism

Simple answers for simple minded people.

Facist said the communists!
Bolshevik said the nazis!
Commie said the yanks!

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

orreborre, dude...

you're sad and sickminded...

 

[OrreBorre]

orreborre, dude...

you're sad and sickminded...

Haha, if you wanna psychoanalyze me - get in line!

 

[Ezteq]

Personally I don't think you should worry too much about Turkish Muslims but rather the fact that you will have many millions of unemployed turks flooding in to Europe. There is a very high unemployement rate in Turkey and the economy is still quite inflationary. They recently changed bank notes to 'New Lira' and knocked 6 0's off the notes.

Taa Daa

 

[Leathas]

rofl, nice thread. Wondered if there was any discussion about "Turkey's membership to the EU" in FH and here it is.

as a Turk living in Turkey / Ankara, I'm not suprised to see these comments here, keep the flames burning please.

and my comment is, I don't want Turkey to join European Union because of the reason stated below :

they should seriously consider how this will affect western culture and values, because it definitely will. We will change them, but they will change us too.

 

[Job]

Borg!!!!

OK here's me full of opinions and I have no freakin idea what Turkey is like.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tu.html
for a start.

Does it have Islamic Law?
98% Muslim, but the factbook says it's a Constitutional Court?

 

[Earl]

Let me rephrase that since i'll get banned for racism or some shit (and people are seriously lieing to themselves if they don't think they prejudge people)

Not to get too bogged down in a political discussion but..
It's not really the religion that people are from that define if they're twats or not... The turks are perfectly nice people (all the ones ive met) and are quite frankly a hell of a lot more friendly than many English people. They also seem to respect our way of life, even if they don't agree with it.

However, go to somewhere like Iraq or quite frankly, look within our own country, and you'll find a crap load of people who arnt willing to respect or integrate in to our culture, many of whom have racial judgments (no matter if they express them or not) and keep together with like-minded people.

and to anyone yelling racism in this thread (i havnt read the whole thing yet but no doubt there is), fuck off you politicaly correct *****.

 

[Earl]

http://www.voiceforeurope.org/index.php

Ok, didn't know where to post this to reach enough readers, so I figured the GD forum would be suitable.

Some pointers:

*Turkey is a country who constantly break the human rights and oppress minorities, such as kurds, christians (they are still denying the genocide of 1.5 million christians in 1915 - it's actually illegal to talk about it). T

Many many human rights are oppressed within the UK. Regardless of if you agree or not, being racist is having a freedom of speach, and yet that isn't allowed within the UK. Heck, if you're at a labour party conferance you'll do well to get away with breathing too loud

*They have a corrupt justicesystem, while the goverment have to use undemocratic methods to fight the increasing number of islamists.

I'd love to learn more about this.

*With a population of 70 million, it would become the second larget state in the EU, and lead to that the EU has over 20% muslims (about 100 million).

Why is this a bad thing? Many turks have adopted many aspects of Western culture and quite frankly the fact that they're muslim has nothing to do with it, the fact that they're willing to accept some western cultures has a lot to their advantage.

We have a very hard time integrating 30 million muslims, how are we suposed to integrate 70 million more?

No idea what you're trying to say here. Again, we have problems trying to integrate many of the English and Pakistani communitys in the UK, but I dont see how that would be a problem with turkey with their adaptability.

 

[- English -]

such racism earl

 

[haarewin]

There is a HUGE rascist/xenophobic base in Europe against Muslims, from the working man right through to the upper classes, it is just capped by political correctness, can you honestly say that you don't here loads of your friends gripe about Muslims and call them all kinds of rascist names, no point in ignoring it, we have to face it head on and see how to fix it, or it'll fix itself.

i've heard it and it disgusts me.
the logic people use to decide that all muslims are bad people is ridiculous. my grandad put it well when he said that "people seem to think 'all suicide bombers are muslims, therefore all muslims are suicide bombers'".
watching the middle aged+ people on the bus distancing themselves from the young asian guy that got on the bus this morning made me laugh to myself in disbelief.
it seems to me that many brits don't want turkey to join the EU simply because of the high muslim population.

 

[Ormorof]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4305500.stm

and so the 10 year talks begin

(and probably the EU propaganda program trying to change peoples minds )

 

[Thadius]

Anyone that can intigrate into our society(be it, chinese, muslim, pink spotted alien from the planet Moose etc) are welcome imo

Thats what really pisses me off about the state of the UK atm. Too many are coming over and raping the country of its money and resources, yet will not intigrate into society. Anyone that does that(no matter what race/relgion) can fuck right off

 

[Ezteq]

rofl, nice thread. Wondered if there was any discussion about "Turkey's membership to the EU" in FH and here it is.

as a Turk living in Turkey / Ankara, I'm not suprised to see these comments here, keep the flames burning please.

and my comment is, I don't want Turkey to join European Union because of the reason stated below :

Oooh about time we had a turkish person come forth and state their opionion, mind if i ask you some questions please?

<if you mind look away now...>

you've said you personally dont want turkey to join the EU, is this something thats widely felt amongst the people you know, family etc? (yes i know the country is pressing to join the EU but theres usually a BIG difference between what the government wants and what the people want)

and how do you think (if you did join the EU) it would change your country?

what is the general feeling with turkish people about the big muslim thingy we've got going on here, do you think it would be a big problem to get a mostly muslim country to ack whats the word um, hang on, not change but to coexist ( i think)?

and also would some of the muslim laws be up for review what with all these european human rights laws they slam down on everyone?

would be interested to see the other side of the coin so to speak.

 

[Lothandar]

Islamic state in the EU .....VERY big issue, Islam as with all religions, just cults, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism all CULTS!!!

Yet another goofy gimpette who never opened the Bible and is calling Christianity a cult because the catholics committed acts "in the name of god" instead of "as ordered by god". Same goes for most of the other religions you listed.

Your words are filled with prejudice and you clearly don't even bother studying these things, you just rant, I understand your hate towards those who have twisted the words of the Bible. Fundamentalists.

The problem here is, that you don't only hate those people who have hidden their sins and guilty acts behind an otherwise utterly embraceable belief, you hate anyone that calls him/herself a christian, and label them "weak minded".


Because pagan beliefs are a lot better, decorating slain pinewood at a certain date of the year and yelling out "love" because it's that date. Not because you feel love, just because it's that date. (You think Christmas is a Christian festivity? My ass, it has nothing to do with Christianity) Orororororor, raising statues(with a more fitting word: IDOLS). It's okay, it doesn't contain the word "christianity", huh? I won't really go into this because it is really not me to convince people about anything, but please, look up the stuff you're going to flame relentlessly. I guess you consider yourself a Darwinist, Job? You might want to look up the recent discoveries about Charles Darwins theory.


The coin has 2 sides my friend.

 

[Lothandar]

And to hop on our threadstarters wagon:

Muslim is not about terrorism. It does not send you to kill people, it does not send you to wage war against "the west". There is no holy war against other religions. IT IS NOT A NEGATIVE THING.

Here are some quotations I took from my well of information:

"Muslims believe that the Holy Qur'an (Recitation) are the words of God, and that it was revealed to Muhammad by the archangel Jibril (Gabriel). This was originally in oral and written form. It was later assembled together into a single book, the Qur'an."

"Its name is often spelled "Koran" in English. This is not recommended, as some Muslims find the word to be offensive." (my wee note for the gullible: no, they don't morph into suicice bombers)



Popular twisted quotations

Good and evil: "Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein, and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause shares in its burden." Chapter 4, Verse 85
Reaction to evil: "Repel (evil) with what is better. Then will he, between whom and thee was hatred, become as it were thy friend and intimate. And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint." Chapter 41, Verse 34 and 35

Forgiveness and justice: "Show forgiveness, speak for justice and avoid the ignorant." Chapter 7, Verse 199





Forgiveness, Repelling evil (not destroying it, but not letting it get to you either, these words are not really the rules set down by a terrorists acts), avoiding the ignorant(people who cry wolf when they hear the word "muslim"), self-restraint, patience, tolerance.









There is a lot more information for any of you who would be interested in learning about the oh-so-dreadful-and-terrorist-training (another note for the gullible: This was sarcasm) religions:

http://www.religioustolerance.org

And you should all remember to not judge a religion by what their followers do "in the name of god" (whatever the religion, whatever the name).

We all know what people do "in the name of god". It is called fanaticism, and it's not really the fault of religions.

 

[Leathas]

you've said you personally dont want turkey to join the EU, is this something thats widely felt amongst the people you know, family etc?

(yes i know the country is pressing to join the EU but theres usually a BIG difference between what the government wants and what the people want)

Why don't I want to Turkey to join EU? Let me explain. If you've ever been to East/Far SouthEast of Anatolia, quality of humans (sorry,there isn't any other word for this) drops close to zero. Why? You might want to ask, the answers are plain : not enough education, "aşiret" system (something like a clan where a whole family lives in 1 house) which cripples the ability to think logically. What I want to say is, these people will spread all over your country and just drop the quality of your society. Don't want such a nice continent(Europe) to be filled with useless crowds of men who can do nothing but to reproduce and just consume resources + disturb social structure.(Go to Istanbul/Ankara/Izmir, search for Kurds, watch their behaviour. You'll know what I mean after then)

Apart from all these, It would be great to join EU for my/my friends' side as it'll give us huge employment opportunities after we graduate from university.(Kinda hard to migrate to an English-Speaking country as you may well know ).

There are many kinds of people around here, but in general, young/middle aged generation thinks it'll be good for them for living standarts and majority of them don't care about the Muslim/Christian fact actually.

and how do you think (if you did join the EU) it would change your country?

--The process of "human rights" bugfix(<cough>) in my country has proven to be quite useful already, as now you won't get tortured to death if you accidentally got involved in an illegal act(Example : People are protesting, you'r just passing by : Police catches you for no reason and ! beats the heck out of you just because of nothing, ffs)
--More Jobs / Opportunities(Best)
--Lower Import tax stuff for europe, I can't even buy 4 boxes of DVD's or an electronic device from an UK-based Website because they charge me with ridiculous amounts of tax if it's more than 100 Euros.(Think of a car or xxx crates of medical supplies on this one.)
--Many more reasons, just think of allowing Republic of Kongo joinining EU and think what would they get in return.

what is the general feeling with turkish people about the big muslim thingy we've got going on here, do you think it would be a big problem to get a mostly muslim country to ack whats the word um, hang on, not change but to coexist ( i think)?

No, It won't be a problem. Extremist Muslims are living at the Eastern parts of Anatolia mostly and their household income is very low. They won't become a problem as they can't even move to another city.(usually)

and also would some of the muslim laws be up for review what with all these european human rights laws they slam down on everyone?

with muslim laws, what do you mean ? If you mean the ones existed in court law stuff book they'r all removed afaik. Be more specific then I can give a better answer


(Had some problems about RL here so my answers might've been weird. I'll try making a better post in the future )

 

[Job]

Were not freakin stupid you know, we understand that Islam is not about terrorism and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to get on with their lives and I can see the problems in our society that are the result of our secularism, but we are giving up God and the transistion will be painful.
People wanting to give a fresh injection of him to solve the problems can go kiss it in my opinion.

Christianity is dead in Europe, bringing in a poor religous state of such number is going to be interesting to say the least.

 

[Job]

Why don't I want to Turkey to join EU? Let me explain. If you've ever been to East/Far SouthEast of Anatolia, quality of humans (sorry,there isn't any other word for this) drops close to zero. Why? You might want to ask, the answers are plain : not enough education, "aşiret" system (something like a clan where a whole family lives in 1 house) which cripples the ability to think logically. What I want to say is, these people will spread all over your country and just drop the quality of your society. Don't want such a nice continent(Europe) to be filled with useless crowds of men who can do nothing but to reproduce and just consume resources + disturb social structure.(Go to Istanbul/Ankara/Izmir, search for Kurds, watch their behaviour. You'll know what I mean after then)

Sorry Leathas but thats the most rascist thing said so far

 

[Draypor]

nah keep em out
altho they do provide me with a nice kebab on the way home from the pub at the weekend