Petition against Turkeys membeship to the EU

[OrreBorre]

http://www.voiceforeurope.org/index.php

Ok, didn't know where to post this to reach enough readers, so I figured the GD forum would be suitable.

Some pointers:

*Turkey is a country who constantly break the human rights and oppress minorities, such as kurds, christians (they are still denying the genocide of 1.5 million christians in 1915 - it's actually illegal to talk about it). T

*They have a corrupt justicesystem, while the goverment have to use undemocratic methods to fight the increasing number of islamists.

*With a population of 70 million, it would become the second larget state in the EU, and lead to that the EU has over 20% muslims (about 100 million).

The socialists are pressing hard to get Turkey into the union, because they think it will help our industry compete with Asia, and they think they can reform the country. Now here's my questions: We have a very hard time integrating 30 million muslims, how are we suposed to integrate 70 million more? Do they want to lower the salaries and working conditions? Becuase that is the only way we can compete industrially, or should we be focusing on development and research that has always been Europe's and USA's territory.

Luckily, Merkel and the CDU are the dominant party in Germany, and will probably form a goverment, but it's still important to show what you think. Your voice is important.

I'm not asking you to sign it, just asking you to think long and hard, and if you agree with me; that Turkey does not belong in the EU - sign it please.

Please spread this link on other forums if possible

 

[Ryuno]

However valid you think your point might be, and how people here might agree with you...

This is the Daoc General Discussions. Turkey and the EU is OFF-TOPIC, and i guess this will probly get moved.

I think this type of post is just open to flaming and starting arguments.

 

[OrreBorre]

However valid you think your point might be, and how people here might agree with you...

This is the Daoc General Discussions. Turkey and the EU is OFF-TOPIC, and i guess this will probly get moved.

I think this type of post is just open to flaming and starting arguments.

So be it, don't move it please , or move it to OT - forum (forgot we had one )

 

[Job]

Islamic state in the EU .....VERY big issue, Islam as with all religions, just cults, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism all CULTS!!!

They have no place in the future of humanity, religion is for the simple-minded, those people who choose to let someone else decide their morality, each has it's own benefits, but overall they are for the weak of mind.

JOIN ME IN THE BELIEF OF INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILTY!!!!!

Hedonism, anarchy, conservatism, liberalism....all just water under the bridge.

Sentient beings have but one journey, to the truth, and it is pure and it is all knowing.

Why are we here?

Why does anything exist?

For no other reason that if it didn't the question couldn't be pondered.

It's all here because it isn't.

 

[Farhach]

Where is the petition for "christianity removal", or "christianity, out of modern society"? Can ofcourse replace "christianity" with any religon of choise, or even the word "religion" as a generalization for them all. If you believe christianity (which seems to be your choise of a lifeguidance) was a nice religion, please re-think.

Not here to flame any religion. But starting stuff like this, based on religion, is generally bound to a flamewar. So... flame on

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

http://www.voiceforeurope.org/index.php

Ok, didn't know where to post this to reach enough readers, so I figured the GD forum would be suitable.

Some pointers:

*Turkey is a country who constantly break the human rights and oppress minorities, such as kurds, christians (they are still denying the genocide of 1.5 million christians in 1915 - it's actually illegal to talk about it). T

*They have a corrupt justicesystem, while the goverment have to use undemocratic methods to fight the increasing number of islamists.

*With a population of 70 million, it would become the second larget state in the EU, and lead to that the EU has over 20% muslims (about 100 million).

The socialists are pressing hard to get Turkey into the union, because they think it will help our industry compete with Asia, and they think they can reform the country. Now here's my questions: We have a very hard time integrating 30 million muslims, how are we suposed to integrate 70 million more? Do they want to lower the salaries and working conditions? Becuase that is the only way we can compete industrially, or should we be focusing on development and research that has always been Europe's and USA's territory.

Luckily, Merkel and the CDU are the dominant party in Germany, and will probably form a goverment, but it's still important to show what you think. Your voice is important.

I'm not asking you to sign it, just asking you to think long and hard, and if you agree with me; that Turkey does not belong in the EU - sign it please.

Please spread this link on other forums if possible

Just for the record, Islam isn't a bad believe, it's just another believe like christianity etc..
The people who perform acts of terrorism are by the definition of the muslim believes no longer a muslim. He who commits murder or suicide will not end up in their heaven etc etc yadda yadda.

This thing against the muslims only make it worse because you pull other people into the fight who will start to feel threatened etc. This'll definately not improve anything.

A true christian / muslim / Jah follower, or about whichever believe you will pick has as ground "Do not to others what you do not want others to do to you" or a similar kind of phrase, so a true believer "shall not do harm".

I don't want to have Turkey in the EU either, but that has nothing to do with them being muslims or not, and neither should that be in those pointers, cos hell, christians haven't been the best example either in history.
They did their decent numbers of slaughtering in the name of faith aswell.

 

[Farhach]

I don't want to have Turkey in the EU either, but that has nothing to do with them being muslims or not, and neither should that be in those pointers, cos hell, christians haven't been the best example either in history.
They did their decent numbers of slaughtering in the name of faith aswell.

Couldnt agree more. Beer for you!

 

[Jeriraa]

Luckily, Merkel and the CDU are the dominant party in Germany, and will probably form a goverment...

Thats what they think... but then again they also think its enough to make a woman chancelor of Germany to change things.

 

[Cozak]

Just for the record, Islam isn't a bad believe, it's just another believe like christianity etc..
The people who perform acts of terrorism are by the definition of the muslim believes no longer a muslim. He who commits murder or suicide will not end up in their heaven etc etc yadda yadda.

This thing against the muslims only make it worse because you pull other people into the fight who will start to feel threatened etc. This'll definately not improve anything.

A true christian / muslim / Jah follower, or about whichever believe you will pick has as ground "Do not to others what you do not want others to do to you" or a similar kind of phrase, so a true believer "shall not do harm".

I don't want to have Turkey in the EU either, but that has nothing to do with them being muslims or not, and neither should that be in those pointers, cos hell, christians haven't been the best example either in history.
They did their decent numbers of slaughtering in the name of faith aswell.

What about all the retarded islamic clerics who go around saying the London bombings and such were great, that some sort of right-wing shit?

 

[Aadia]

What about all the retarded islamic clerics who go around saying the London bombings and such were great, that some sort of right-wing shit?

In my book they lose their right to be considered muslim. They hide behind what they call Islam to preach hatred. A bit like the "Reverand" Ian Paisly, that "Christian" from Northern Ireland. In all religions, the original spiritual teachings have become corrupted over the centuries by people who are filled with hate.


Hmm, nerf using the missus pc...seems I'm logged in as Aadia - this was posted by Bracken

 

[old.Tohtori]

"*With a population of 70 million, it would become the second larget state in the EU, and lead to that the EU has over 20% muslims (about 100 million)."

Is it just me or does this sound like a page from the "I aer Racist!" book.

Not liking it...so what if there's 20% muslims in the EU? Their humans as well as bloody christians or jews or f*cking green jelly worshipping midget albinos.

 

[fettoken]

Islamic state in the EU .....VERY big issue, Islam as with all religions, just cults, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism all CULTS!!!

They have no place in the future of humanity, religion is for the simple-minded, those people who choose to let someone else decide their morality, each has it's own benefits, but overall they are for the weak of mind.

JOIN ME IN THE BELIEF OF INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILTY!!!!!

Hedonism, anarchy, conservatism, liberalism....all just water under the bridge.

Sentient beings have but one journey, to the truth, and it is pure and it is all knowing.

Why are we here?

Why does anything exist?

For no other reason that if it didn't the question couldn't be pondered.

It's all here because it isn't.

:worthy: :worthy:

 

[Job]

We aren't racist, we are xenophobic.
We are scared of masses of people who mindlessly believe something we find ridiculous, we fear their power to act as one and destroy our culture from within.

Westerners value individuality, Islam's like the frekin Borg, it has it's advantages, but many,many disadvantages, for one the whole thing is based on women being second class citizens, we have fought for womens rights but then we belittle them with pornography, Muslim's ban it but then treat their women like a pet.

Anyway as with all religion,it's only there for the poor, rich Muslims don't give a shit about their religion, they just use it as an extra lever on the masses, just like we used to over here.

 

[tris-]

it does have slight racist under tones.

why dont you even bother with the fact that have taken over northen cyprus and wont give it back?!

 

[CstasY]

Personally I dont consider that racist, the line in question, is based on fact, not oppinion. From my point of view we dont need Turkey in the EU.

 

[dub]

tyrkey is a secular state , i dont care what they believe in when they gone home after voting.

now correct me if im wrong but isnt CDU wich merkel belongs to an abbrevation of christian democratic union ? , so that means that they have based their economic policy on the bible ? , ofc not , now stop the sillyness.

can have all kind of reasons for being against turkey being accepted into the EU , but this evilmuslimaregonnagetuswodoo is so biased you have to wonder those who come up with it reasons for doing so.

 

[Cozak]

it does have slight racist under tones.

what doesnt these days

 

[Ezteq]

Hmm tough one, I personally can't say I'm terribly happy about the idea of Turkey joining the EU but this is only because I don't see what they can offer, I'm not an econamist (and it's quite possible that i didn't even spell it correctly) so i might be wrong, and they might be able to offer us loads and make the EU even stronger, but i don't think so and it seems very one sided like Turkey would be gaining a lot and the rest of us would quite possibly end up financially damaged.

I'd be against any county joining the EU if they wern't able to offer major benifits to the existing members, it's a very selfish point of view but there we go.

I have nothing against muslims, I neither like or dislike them (this is aided by the fact that I don't know any) so the fact that Turkey is a Predominantly muslim country is neither here nor there for me, however I do acknowledge that there is a very hot issue surrounding the muslim situation at this time and feel that it may be unwise to even consider intagration untill people are able to look at this in any way other than "Eeeek invasion of those people i see off the telly!!" because to force it on people when they are all a little scared and unsure (and lets face it it is a very volitile situation at the moment) would probably only add fuel to the fire and cause more damage than is nessasary.

I think that people are all a little too raw over the immigration issue at the moment aswell, so in my opionion (and it is just my opionion) I think that the timing on this issue is completely wrong and it would do more harm than good, but I'm not saying that it should never happen, just that it should be reconsidered at a time when things are a little more benificial for both parties.



/signed Green Jelly worshipping albino midget.

 

[old.Tohtori]

/signed Green Jelly worshipping albino midget.

Get back to worshipping and offerings!

All hail!

 

[OrreBorre]

"*With a population of 70 million, it would become the second larget state in the EU, and lead to that the EU has over 20% muslims (about 100 million)."

Is it just me or does this sound like a page from the "I aer Racist!" book.

Maybe you shouldn't use words you don't know the definition of.

 

[OrreBorre]

it does have slight racist under tones.

why dont you even bother with the fact that have taken over northen cyprus and wont give it back?!

Because I forgot the issue? But good point.

 

[OrreBorre]

can have all kind of reasons for being against turkey being accepted into the EU , but this evilmuslimaregonnagetuswodoo is so biased you have to wonder those who come up with it reasons for doing so.

"Evilmuslimaregonnagetuswodoo" you will have to stand for.

However, it is extremely naive to believe that a state who keeps breaking the fundamental human rights with certain groups, that continue denying their own history (imagine Germany saying that the genocide never took place), will suddenly change by entering the EU. It is also extremely naive to believe a hundred million muslims won't have any effects on western society, on our values. No state in the world has managed to integrate a muslim population in 200 years after their own values (probably longer, just ignorant), in many cases it has lead to conflict. So what makes you think, that we will manage with something we can't even do with small populations?

 

[OrreBorre]

Where is the petition for "christianity removal", or "christianity, out of modern society"? Can ofcourse replace "christianity" with any religon of choise, or even the word "religion" as a generalization for them all. If you believe christianity (which seems to be your choise of a lifeguidance) was a nice religion, please re-think.

Problem is: that christianity is a part of Europe due to 2000 years of history, not much to do about that. However, we can stop a totalitarian force from taking root in the european society.

 

[Dakkath]

Problem is: that christianity is a part of Europe due to 2000 years of history, not much to do about that. However, we can stop a totalitarian force from taking root in the european society.

Totalitarian: Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed:

Erm, as much as I hate to point this out to you, by denying peoples right to co-exist in the EU with the rest of us because you don't approve of the way someone thinks means that we become a totalitarian force ourselves...

 

[Adoctor]

Any one wanna do a petition to boot all jews outta EU? how about chinese/blacks/russians/pigmies/left handed people ?

No, good.

Welcome to the free world.

Personally i think Turkey shouldn't join the EU, more for the fact that their economy sucks rather than a percentage are muslim.

 

[Cozak]

Any one wanna do a petition to boot all jews outta EU? how about chinese/blacks/russians/pigmies/left handed people ?

No, good.

Welcome to the free world.

Personally i think Turkey shouldn't join the EU, more for the fact that their economy sucks rather than a percentage are muslim.

fu!! LEFT POWER!

 

[Ezteq]

Get back to worshipping and offerings!

All hail!

Ooooooooom :worthy:

think rather than making this one of those tedious "your racist!!..........No Your racist!!" threads and getting in to the whole Muslim thing we should concentrate on the main question

incase anyone forgot the main question here it is again

Should Turkey be allowed to join the EU?

and not sink in to the multi finger pointing murky depths of religion, lets just stick to the multi finger pointing, biting and on some occasions sucking, murky depths of politics way hay!


[edit] Oooooooom

 

[Ormorof]

their economy is growing rapidly though, (around 9% i think it was? which is higher than india, considered one of the worlds "booming economies" )

so their economy is improving, also turkey is far more liberal than pretty much any other muslim state, the fact that they wont currently own up to the genocide, and their oppresion of kurds is obviously why its going to take up to 10 years for turkey to join, if they do start the talks

think on it this way: in 10 years time your opinion on the matter will probably be completely different, due to various things such as enlightenment, new facts, other things changing etc

but just saying "turkey cant join cos theyre muslims!!" is kinda silly, yes they will have an impact, but so will the eastern european countries that joined last year.

whether or not it will be a good change or bad cant really be predicted straight away (i seem to remember all the builders here in the UK complaining about how all the eastern europeans were going to steal all their jobs about a year ago, which of course hasnt happened )

Maybe you shouldn't use words you don't know the definition of.

Racist : discriminatory behaviour on the basis of race or religion

the whole idea of race and religion is of course silly, and turkey is a secular state meaning religion shouldnt be part of their government, so its not really accurate to call it an islamic state, just because the people are islamic.

its hardly right either to base your views on the fact they are muslims, or even their government is muslim, in germany (as you yourself pointed out) the CDU might come into power, Christian Democratic Union? dont see how a bunch of right-wing christians are any better than a bunch of right-wing muslims tbh, except of course that if turkey was part of the EU they would likely be forced to be more moderate in some of their practices

 

[noblok]

While I agree that corruption and not respecting minorities are serious offenses which should be taken care off, I also think that it's not really the reason why you don't want them to join. If you (or the site you refered to) really cared about those things, then why don't I see any mention of Bulgaria and Romania? The EU has already started negotiatikns with these two countries and they will almost certainly join in 2 years time (2007). They have, however, still a lot of problems to deal with.

Bulgaria is the 'best' of the two. Their only problem is discrimination: the Roma as well as gay people.

Romania is just terrible. Their economy isn't yet a functional free-market economy, nor is it able to cope with the concurrence in the EU. They still have an incredible problem with corruption, their justitional organs have too few people, freedom of speech isn't guaranteed in their constitution and discrimination against the Roma is a problem here as well.

Turkey is also relatively well integrated in the Western culture. They have been a member of the NATO for longer then Germany and they have had a seat in the Council of Europe (not sure about the actual English name) for quite some time now. I do realise that they will weigh heavily on the agriculture expenses of the EU, but it is possible to change the subsidization system before they join.

The EU has been telling Turkey that the negotians will start 'soon' that flat out refusing to start the negotiations would be very rude. I am not saying that Turkey should join, but at least start the negotiations. Turkey will not do any more efforts if the negotiations don't start. The efforts they're doing now is because they want to join the EU. Maybe they just don't want to do anything more, before they get something in return. Starting the negotiations might encourage them to continue their efforts.

 

[Job]

Well if we're worried about Turkeys culture influencing ours, we have allready influenced there's by a huge amount, Turks are very westernised and this is causing all kinds of problems with the people who want it to be an Islamic state, Turkish women dress in short skirts (oooh) and wear make up and live lives very similair to any western European women, the Muslims hard liners see this as a slow slide into debauchery.

Western culture is the simple culture,just about anything goes..of course every civilisation since the dawn of time has crashed and burned by following that route.

There is a HUGE rascist/xenophobic base in Europe against Muslims, from the working man right through to the upper classes, it is just capped by political correctness, can you honestly say that you don't here loads of your friends gripe about Muslims and call them all kinds of rascist names, no point in ignoring it, we have to face it head on and see how to fix it, or it'll fix itself.