Patches

[RS|Phil]

Another bug in 1.70

Another bug seems to be the ye olde archer/caster bug that was meant to have been fixed (and seemingly was) several patches ago.

I refer, of course, to the lag-shot/nuke.

This seems to be absolutely insane now. I'm sure it's something user specific. The same people seem to be the ones that managed to hit you thru doors and walls time and time again. So I reckon they're lagging, either through poor connections or downloads or (I hope not) intentional bug abuse.

Basically, and I'm sure you all have this, you get hit by an archer or caster so you jump inside, and get hit again... fine you think ... bit of server lag there... then get hit a third time... and even a fourth somtimes.

Get this. My mate managed to get hit once outside a tower, go inside, 3s later he gets hit again, sits down and gets hit and dies. Eh? That's like six or seven seconds with no LOS.

How about this one? A hunter pops in door, runs onto steps in tower ( at the back of the room ) and gets hit by an AE mez from sorc, which mezzes everyone in the bottom floor. You can imagine the wtf..lol..eh ... as if! spam

And the best one of all on me. I run out, rez someone, get shot, got back in, get shot, wait 10s, use mcl, and get shot

HUUUH?

This never ever happened to this maddening extent in 1.69!! To be honest it seems to me like the client is dicated LOS to the server, rather than the server analysing the LOS and locations of people and denying the shot.
Clients should not do this!

 

[Belomar]

This is not really a bug; it's a direct effect of the increased lag as more people get involved in RvR (and keep warfare). It's just that your character is lagging away through doors and walls in the eyes of the enemy player, allowing them to pump arrows or spells into you with no LOS considerations necessary.

 

[Ctuchik]

the amount of whine about "omg 136 days late!" etc. on here says: damned if they do damned if they don't
People would have quit with 1.71 too...

the only major bug in 1.70 is the white names thing, which I got used to after about 2 hours playing... it's annoying but it's nothing I can't deal with.

and the "not in view" message u get when trying to nuke something of a wall thats clearly IN los and standing 10 feet away! or the not in view message u get when standing on a keep tower and looking down at the courtyard and try to nuke a pet/shroom/guard/whatever and get target is not visible!

thats the 2 major gripes i have at the moment.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Theres a couple of things here I think people are missing. Yes the clip thing is there, although I have to say not to the extent some beleive. Archer classes have 3 things to their advantage, that are somewhat over looked by non archer classes. Examples in this thread are:


"Being hit while stealthed at 1600" - easy, volley. With a 2200ish range, a volley will hit stealthed characters, if you happen to be standing where another player was 2 minutes before, you will get hit.

"Seeing scouts on rooftops" As this area is often under fire from volley or seige, you may not be seeing a stealthed char at all, but perhaps at clip a SoM'd char, as most stealthers have that arti, so dont be fooled into thinking its what you see. Also, a preceince node set up close to the keep will allow exactly this, during combat it is damn hard to see if all the ways of spotting stealthers are up. Normally where these people are its virtually impossible to stealth up. And dont forget, the doors to a keep maybe up, but if the walls are at 0, arrows / bolts will pass inside.

"XXXX saw me a mile off while stealthed when i got 40+15 in it!!!" - and? I have 35 + 14 stealth, plus my Ring of Dances or SoM and presto, I now have 35+14+35 stealth, suddenly you are wearing a stealther billboard saying "Gank meh at Joes!".
While LOS is definately an issue, I cant say its any worse than it ever was TBH, this patch was supposed to introduce new LOS checks at the beginning, middle and end of a cast / bow draw, but perhaps thats still "not working as intended." But I am certain that many people are not aware of the physics of keeps and especially seige warfare. If XXX hits you, check to see what he hit you with before quoting a bug or LOS issue.

 

[RS|Phil]

Two counterpoints.

Firstly, Belomar. Alright I coiuld accept that on my PC I'm inside but not on the server, enabling the person to keep firing at me. However there are two reasons this isn't what's happening. Reason one, you don't move inside the tower till the server says you are inside. Hence you're seeing what they see, more or less. Reason two, even if there's some weird lag situation whereby I'm in the tower on my PC but not on anyone else's, how does that explain what's happening when all the other people in the tower see the what's happening to the victim too? A player comes in, moves round inside, MCLs, sits down, and gets hit three times whilst doing that. And everyone sees it.
If that was just a client/server problem with lag, then we'd not be able to see that he's inside would we? What I'm saying is that the ten people in the tower clearly see person XXX getting shot three or more times thru the doors, so how is it possible that the person who's firing sees anything different?

It's not.


Secondly old.whoodoo, the stealth bug. I've considered people volleying and dismissed it as a possible reason for all these stealthers getting popped whilst stealthed. You know why? Because I can sit on towers with my healer/RM and see enemy stealth running around on the floor. I didn't think to SS this for y'all but two of my mate's did who had the bug at the same time. A lot of peeps have told me the same thing : that they can either seen stealthers or are seen by them. The common element atm seems to be towers...
I'll post the pic shortly, hopefully.

 

[Belomar]

Reason one, you don't move inside the tower till the server says you are inside.

Wrong. You can move around freely in your local copy of the game world, obeying the client-side collision detection. This does not require server authentication. Some things do require server authentication, like picking up a loot bag or firing a spell, and some things do not, like movement--they are asynchronous. Notice how when you are going LD, you can still move around freely, but you cannot interact with the world. I don't know exactly which parts need synchronization, and which do not; this only the DAoC developers (or people working on free shards) can answer.

The reason for doing this is simple: to reduce the effects of latency. Instead of relying on a potentially slow Internet connection with a roundtrip time of 250 ms or more, reducing in extremely choppy and unsmooth gameplay, we extrapolate the movement of all entities in the world and rely on the client to produce fluid animation to "smoothe over" the unreliable nature of the Internet.

If that was just a client/server problem with lag, then we'd not be able to see that he's inside would we? What I'm saying is that the ten people in the tower clearly see person XXX getting shot three or more times thru the doors, so how is it possible that the person who's firing sees anything different?

You are mixing things up; it is not the person who is being shot at who is necessarily lagging, it is the person doing the shooting who is. On his screen, the hapless victim, who has already moved into safety in his own and the server's view, is lagging through the wall, presenting a perfect target for the shooter to pump his arrows into. LOS checks seem to be done on the client-side (i.e. require no server authentication, which to me sounds like a bad idea), so if the client is convinced that the target is in sight of the shooter (i.e. if the target is lagging out through a keep wall into plain view), then the server will take its word for it and accept the shot. Even if the actual shot gets accepted, implying there is a connection to the server, high lag situations result in packet loss or packet delays, which might mean that a position update packet for the target gets lost while the action packets sent to the server are accepted, and the shooter can continue shooting.

Basically, you need to read up on consistency in distributed systems on real-world networks like the Internet before you go on saying things are impossible.

 

[RS|Phil]

That's precisely my point. The LOS checks were suppose to have been changed long ago to stop client lag affecting wall shooting.
To elaborate a little more on this, if LOS was clearly client based then you'd be able to nuke the shit out of the lag ghosts more than likely.

It's a bug that was addressed a long time back, and seems to have returned in 1.70.

Hell if its not fixed I'm gonna start uploading huge files when I'm playing the game so I can shoot people who've gone round corners and into towers

 

[Loosey]

People walking round stealthed on the ground and being seen by archers from the tops of level 10 towers

just so you know ive randomly had the bug where i can see stealthers at clip range since the Bg's were invented.. so its nothing new to 1.70

 

[Svartmetall]

Well lag can do weird stuff - on Saturday there was yet another bad lagstorm and I was on horse (with my then-20 Shaman) to Hagall; a lagspike resulted in the game thinking I was off the horse long enough for a Little Greeber to attack me three times, but I still ended up back on the horse...arrived in Hagall with like 10% Hits left. Weird.

...

 

[RS|Phil]

just so you know ive randomly had the bug where i can see stealthers at clip range since the Bg's were invented.. so its nothing new to 1.70

No one's ever mentioned it before but anyway, it's not just clip range now it's all over. Besides it's already been acknowledged as a 1.70 bug afaik.

But enough! I tire.

 

[cHodAX]

GOA made the right choice when it came to patching 1.70 instead of jumping to 1.71 and the reason is quite simple. It would have been a 6 full months wait between 1.69 --> 1.71 and during that time 2 huge MMORPG's were being released plus expansion packs for a handful of other established games. Although many people have quit since 1.70 far more would have left for pastures new if they would have had to wait the 6 months, also remember that 1.71 does fix somethings but doesn't radically change the way NF works so many of those people that have left lately would have left anyway when 1.71 shipped. The only thing that has happened differently is that people have cancelled thier subs a month earlier than they might have. GOA did the right thing and should be commended for it, 6 months between 2 patches would have just driven more customers to other games, the vast majority of people that left since NF would have left anyway.