News Paris Attack

[Gwadien]

We won WW2.

This makes up one of my major arguments.

People say 'OMG the time of Empire was horrible, we went around destroying nations and practically enslaving the populace for our own benefit'

We do the same now.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Collateral damage

 

[old.user4556]

Collateral damage

Already posted that further up the thread.

 

[throdgrain]

Why the fuck can you not see it has NOTHING to do with the moral high ground.

It's the tactics we are using NOW which are at fault.

We bomb masses, we create martyrs - as for @Gumbo who said earlier 'look at Afghanistan, that worked!' Yeah, it may have worked in creating less martyrs because it was a true battle of hearts and minds, and the soldiers knew that, and that's what they were doing, but because we've condemned both Iraq and Afghanistan as a failure, we're better off bombing from a distance, and hoping we don't create too many martyrs, which. we. are.

It's YOU saying it, and therefore by default has EVERYTHING to do with the moral high ground

 

[Gwadien]

Collateral damage

'Intelligence agency reports' - See Jobs post about de-humanisation.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Sorry pal, on my phone and cba reading whole thread :/

 

[Gwadien]

It's YOU saying it, and therefore by default has EVERYTHING to do with the moral high ground

This is just like saying 'student voice' or what ever, I just guess when you're losing debates you retort to trying to categorise people.

 

[throdgrain]

This is just like saying 'student voice' or what ever, I just guess when you're losing debates you retort to trying to categorise people.

lol I haven't done that, I'm only talking about you

 

[Talivar]

That video shows two sides tho, it shows that not enough Muslims are speaking out against ISIS but it also shows that it doesn't matter WHAT happens leading up to it but if you go and kill Americans or Western people then the anger of the world will turn on you lol. She mentions 9/11 and doesn't mention they trained Bin Laden themselves to be a Terrorist, she mentions the evil Nazi but fails to mention it was America who actually supplied Germany with its arms for a part of the War and on and on. This is a completely different type of war and we need to win it 100% but we need to fight it smart to achieve that.

 

[Yoni]

Why do you have to point out 'student types' this is boring as shit - your opinion isn't accepted because you're a student, what about @Talivar and @TdC last time I checked they weren't students - well reeds is an old man student so that barely counts. Don't even respond to this. Its off topic and boring.

As I said from the beginning terrorist attacks are purely there for marketing purposes - you don't get someone to invade if you just keep shouting 'I hate America.'

I wouldn't consider Afghan as a great example anyway, they've never been pacified into a fashion which the invaders saw fit, and I highly doubt it'll happen now.

For the record I do support military action, but one which will cause us to invest heavily in more covert ops; improve the Iraqi infrastructure and send it the world's special forces on important messages - bombing is a political move; it doesn't risk many lives of the pilots thus it doesn't get bad rap.

As a complete pacifist I understand that in order to stop what is going on more innocent people will die as collateral damage I would be incredibly naive to think that this situation will be solved peacefully. Your personally ideologies are naive which is why you get so many when you grow up comments... It doesn't mean you are wrong just that it isn't going to happen. This new war is developing due to a group of people who enjoy killing, they use Islam as an excuse but behind all that they are a group of homocidal maniacs led by a group of master manipulators who pray on the weak to carry out their dirty work, sadly there is no reasoning with them so the only choice is to kill them..and very sadly there will be a loss of innocent human life of those caught in the crossfire albeit bombs or targeted civilians.

 

[Gwadien]

That video shows two sides tho, it shows that not enough Muslims are speaking out against ISIS but it also shows that it doesn't matter WHAT happens leading up to it but if you go and kill Americans or Western people then the anger of the world will turn on you lol. She mentions 9/11 and doesn't mention they trained Bin Laden themselves to be a Terrorist, she mentions the evil Nazi but fails to mention it was America who actually supplied Germany with its arms for a part of the War and on and on. This is a completely different type of war and we need to win it 100% but we need to fight it smart to achieve that.

Left wing person questions a right wing panel.

Shock.

 

[Gwadien]

As a complete pacifist I understand that in order to stop what is going on more innocent people will die as collateral damage I would be incredibly naive to think that this situation will be solved peacefully. Your personally ideologies are naive which is why you get so many when you grow up comments... It doesn't mean you are wrong just that it isn't going to happen. This new war is developing due to a group of people who enjoy killing, they use Islam as an excuse but behind all that they are a group of homocidal maniacs led by a group of master manipulators who pray on the weak to carry out their dirty work, sadly there is no reasoning with them so the only choice is to kill them..and very sadly there will be a loss of innocent human life of those caught in the crossfire albeit bombs or targeted civilians.

We have the military resources of over more than half the planet, we can move mountains if we wanted to, it's just about efficiency.

 

[old.user4556]

in order to stop what is going on more innocent people will die as collateral damage

Absolutely, and many innocent Muslims are going to get barrel loads of paranoia and prejudice in their direction. There's an element of "fly with the crows, shot with the crows" coming.

 

[Talivar]

I repeat my earlier question, would we all accept the innocent causalities if it included non Muslims and people closer to home because it WILL come to that eventually

 

[throdgrain]

It will come that way anyway surely? Like it did Friday?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

We have the military resources of over more than half the planet, we can move mountains if we wanted to, it's just about efficiency.

Oh well then, you should have said. Why Don't you call the guys at the G20 and tell them were they are going wrong. I'm sure your CS-GO tactics will help.

 

[Talivar]

Yep but if we go this particular route it will ramp up massively before we could eradicate ISIS as they will gain many new recruits and they willing to die for the cause. We need to understand what feeds ISIS and gives it its power. If we can remove its resources and destroy its image and cut off its recruitment pathway THEN we can defeat them, otherwise we go we bomb, they bomb, they get the publicity then need, gain recruits, we bomb bigger, they bomb bigger until we finally win but at what cost?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

I repeat my earlier question, would we all accept the innocent causalities if it included non Muslims and people closer to home because it WILL come to that eventually

It already has, and yes.

 

[old.user4556]

cut off its recruitment pathway

Hmmm, yes - there's that indoctrination and brainwashing I was talking about earlier based around the abhorrent texts in the Quran.

 

[Talivar]

Love them or hate them or dont care for them but we cannot afford for a large % of the Muslim world to turn against us as that would truly cause a proper world war

 

[Yoni]

Absolutely, and many innocent Muslims are going to get barrel loads of paranoia and prejudice in their direction. There's an element of "fly with the crows, shot with the crows" coming.

Just as I have been worried about my French friends and colleges all weekend I will worry for not only my Muslim friends but my friends who are Sikh, <insert middle eastern religion here> Or just not white as their lives will become increasingly difficult as ignorant white people spit on them in the street, or bully their kids at school... It's not just death that ruins people's lives in the west....

 

[Talivar]

I personally do agree about the Religion aspect tho and would personally do away wit it, but sadly i doubt will ever happen as too many nations are Religion crazy like America and Middle east ect

 

[old.user4556]

I'm actually reading the Quran just now, I made it as far as the first few sentences on page fucking one when suddenly a wild extremism appeared:

As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. (6) Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom/

 

[throdgrain]

Just as I have been worried about my French friends and colleges all weekend I will worry for not only my Muslim friends but my friends who are Sikh, <insert middle eastern religion here> Or just not white as their lives will become increasingly difficult as ignorant white people spit on them in the street, or bully their kids at school... It's not just death that ruins people's lives in the west....

Bully their kids at school? Heh not at any school where I live. They'd be outnumbered 5 to 1.

 

[Gwadien]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34830233

Facebook says 150 raids.

Nothing says 'we could have prevented this' more than this.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

I'm actually reading the Quran just now, I made it as far as the first few sentences on page fucking one when suddenly a wild extremism appeared:

Jeez, never read it but so much for "tolerant religion".

 

[old.user4556]

Oh. It gets much, much more interesting my friend. That's just it's opening gambit.

 

[Gwadien]

I'm actually reading the Quran just now, I made it as far as the first few sentences on page fucking one when suddenly a wild extremism appeared:

Read the old testament, it's wonderful.

Infact, Crusades, as in not the modern ones, but the original ones, Europe was in the way of making sure that there was peace, and using religion to do that.

So the Church decided to say 'Fuck the new testament guys, y'all should read the old testament'

I'm not saying this as 'Christians too!' I'm saying that it's easy to use a book to suit your needs. Like the KKK do today, but fortunately, most Christians live in a liberal forward looking society.

 

[old.user4556]

Read the old testament, it's wonderful

Oh but it is Christians too; you're absolutely bang on.

I don't want to derail this thread with my atheist rants, but when I see "oooh it's nothing to do with Islam", I want to punch my monitor.

 

[Gwadien]

Oh but it is Christians too; you're absolutely bang on.

I don't want to derail this thread with my atheist rants, but when I see "oooh it's nothing to do with Islam", I want to punch my monitor.

No mate, I'm just pointing out that the new parts of the Koran/Bible were created because they thought perhaps the older stuff was a bit mental (This was like 2000 years ago.)

I'm not saying it hasn't got anything to do with Islam, but I think it has ALOT more to do with the environment which you're brought up in, sure there's the odd case in the UK who go a bit mental, but its not like swathes in certain parts of Mosul.