Parents raising genderless children

[Access Denied]

Clicky

Read the comments. Most of the comments pissed me off royally. Just epitomizes how bigoted and narrow minded some people are. Cruelty? I don't think so. They clearly want to give their children every possible choice in life, I personally think they're just going about it in a rather bizarre and misguided manner.

Discuss!

 

[Mey]

Personally I think doing anything to your child that will lead them to being bullied or mistreated by others is cruel. These people are adults who know how the real world works. Sure they have an idealistic view of how the world should work but it doesn't work like that.

 

[Kryten]

They're acting as if they are giving them a religious choice and being absolutely ignorance of the facts. Boy or girl, raise them in the manner fit for either. If they would like the opportunity to change that later in their own lives when they are old enough to understand, then if you really are open minded let them do it then, and only then.

 

[Zenith]

OK, the example is fucking extreme and overthetop hippyish I must say, but they are acting on a sound principles. Its SICK how different you treat kids, before they even start to show any kind of gender-related behaviour. They are boys/girls, and therefore you think they SHOULD play only with this toys, ONLY have blue/pink clothes and all other kind of bullshit.

 

[Mey]

Theres a big difference between a little boy who plays with a barbie doll and a little boy who doesn't know that he is a little boy who plays with a barbie doll.

 

[Wij]

My little boy quite likes prancing around in Mummy's shoes but apart from that he's always been the most boyish boy at nursery. He's not that tall but he's strong as an ox and shouts at everything. Obsessed with cars, diggers and trains. Pretty sure it's innate behaviour. He's a lot more boisterous than I ever was

 

[Ctuchik]

OK, the example is fucking extreme and overthetop hippyish I must say, but they are acting on a sound principles. Its SICK how different you treat kids, before they even start to show any kind of gender-related behaviour. They are boys/girls, and therefore you think they SHOULD play only with this toys, ONLY have blue/pink clothes and all other kind of bullshit.

Sure, but if they are a boy then i think they should be raised as one. not grow long hair, dress up in skirts and have hair braids. Because no matter how much you want it not to be, bar the long hair they are girl accessories.

That stuff is just messing their heads up.

It might be unfortunate that it's the way it has to be but that's how the world works.

Imagine these kids going to school for the first time dressed up as girls and then having to shower after a athlete class...

After that point his school life will be utterly ruined.

Those parents have a romanticized idea of how the world should be, but they pay no respect to the kids and how the world really works.

And nothing says why the 2 first boys started dressing up as girls, for all we know it could be because their dad does it, and boys usually want to be like their dad...

With all that said, my mom didn't care to much what i dressed up in either, when i was at home!

But she made damn clear that i was a boy and boys don't run around dressed in skirts unless it was a costume party or similar.

She didn't mind me wearing pink jeans outside, but obvious girl clothes, not a chance...

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I feel sorry for the kid. It will grow up without the ability to integrate well and will be seen as an outsider by its peer group, which is probably way more damaging than caring about which gender it is.

When the child is old enough to start understanding there is a difference it will likely feel great shame. It is effectively being told to keep itself secret.

Children are extremely cruel and this poor bugger is going to suffer greatly.

These well-meaning parents are idiots.

 

[Ch3tan]

They are raising a suicide victim.

 

[TdC]

sadly I agree Chet. imo you can certainly raise your child to have a decent world view and make decisions for itself, without causing it to be singled out amongst it's peers.

kids can be extraordinarily kind, but equally cruel to anyone who is different. as an extremely mild example, I remember my own childhood moving to the NL: I was small, tanned, and didn't speak a word of Dutch. I thought that the Dutch kids were extremely ill mannered because they said "shit" a lot. At least they looked like kids to me, and vice versa.

 

[old.Tohtori]

"What we noticed is that parents make so many choices for their children. It's obnoxious."

Yeah, you got that right. So....f*ck off out of your kids life? Teach the bugger hwo to treat women/men, but teach them how men/women are.

Boy or girl, the path is set in stone from the moment the doctor notices that winky. You can't homogenize it.

Either you get the sammich, or you make it

 

[Ch3tan]

Bloody hell! Toht didn't play devils advocate

*faints*

 

[old.Tohtori]

Bloody hell! Toht didn't play devils advocate

*faints*

Yet you played your usual role, go figure

 

[Krazeh]

"What we noticed is that parents make so many choices for their children. It's obnoxious."

I'm fairly sure that's what you're supposed to do as a parent. You make choices for your children because they're unable to do it themselves at that age. To refuse to make choices that should be made in order to set your child up to be able to integrate into it's peer group and in a wider sense modern society is, imo, an act of neglect. It's all well and good having 'new age' ideas about gender but they don't fit with how the real world operates and have the potential to cause the child harm in later life.

 

[Huntingtons]

My little boy quite likes prancing around in Mummy's shoes but apart from that he's always been the most boyish boy at nursery. He's not that tall but he's strong as an ox and shouts at everything. Obsessed with cars, diggers and trains. Pretty sure it's innate behaviour. He's a lot more boisterous than I ever was

i can assure you its not. Its from influences around him.

I personally think its an interesting idea but it will fall short when he/she gets into contact with other kids for many reasons;

1. The need to socialize wil bind the kid either to boys or girls
2. kids do interest themselves with their sex (because thats how theyve been raised)

after that it will start raising questions about its own gender


/edit

krazah:

while i do agree that some choices should be made for kids, many tests have shown that from about age 3-5 your kid can start doing rather important choices themselves (When to eat, when to sleep). However it requires your kid to be raised with free boundaries from infancy

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

i can assure you its not. Its from influences around him.

There are enough social study phd's and psychologists etc who tend to disagree with you. Don't have the articles at hand, and don't have the time to look them up, but this is still a subject very much under research, and as long as there are still articles coming out with different views, it'll be impossible for you to "assure it's not", as much as it's impossible for me to claim otherwise. Fact is that the border between innate behavior and socially learned behavior is very hard to determine.

On topic of article, I agree with [post=3759879]Roo[/post], [post=3759880]Ch3t[/post] and [post=3759884]Tdc[/post]. This child is bound to have a very very difficult childhood. Although the experiment might be interesting, in my eyes it's unnecessarily cruel.

 

[Job]

What about a little boy who dresses up his action man in leather chaps and Policeman's hat?

 

[ECA]

Obv just good taste in music

I don't think this is some awful experiment, obviously the child knows that gender they are - they just don't tell anyone else to avoid it influencing their contact.

tldr, lots of shit about nothing.

Once the kid is like 4-5 it will probably tell other people.

 

[rynnor]

What kind of parents do social experiments on their kids? On the other hand as long as they stop it before they get too old it probably wouldnt be an issue.

Its remarkable how early you can notice behavioural differences in the sexes - the boy was noticeably different from 6 months onwards.

Its a stereotype but the girls are noticeably far more socially advanced than the boys as youngsters - not sure if the boys ever catch up tbh

I remember the sad case of the young boy who's penis was cut off in an accident so they raised him as a girl. He eventually had reconstructive surgery and lived as a male, got married, got divorced and then committed suicide - gender is a massive part of our individual Identity.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I do have to note on my previous comment, that it's no coin out of my pocket how people raise their kids. They won't grow up as you'd like anyway as they are, surprise, human.

If they wanted to really grow a kid up "genderless", they'd teach equally about both sides, show generic things of both sides(my little pony and g.i.joe) and let the kid choose. This seems like just another forced choice.

Hell, if the kid grows up strong minded, he/she will make one interesting persona int the gray dull world

 

[Wij]

I remember the sad case of the young boy who's penis was cut off in an accident so they raised him as a girl. He eventually had reconstructive surgery and lived as a male, got married, got divorced and then committed suicide - gender is a massive part of our individual Identity.

I thought of that myself earlier.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I thought of that myself earlier.

But only the penile reconstructive surgery bit. PERV.

 

[ilaya]

I heard a mother phone in the Jeremy Vine show on radio 2 last year on a similar topic.. and she claimed she knew her then 3 year old son was gay.

so ofc she raised him that way.. and guess what.. she was right...

well he didnt have much choice did he?


Gender is one thing that IS decided beyond your control. you either have a cock or a fanny.

Sexuality is another matter. lets not get the 2 confused.

 

[Access Denied]

Gender is one thing that IS decided beyond your control. you either have a cock or a fanny.

I think you'll find that's actually sex. There's a clear difference between sex and gender.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think you'll find that's actually sex. There's a clear difference between sex and gender.

Nah he's right, that's gender. What you do with the bits is sex.

Ofcourse sex is sometimes used, wrongly, where gender should be used.

 

[Fafnir]

Ofcourse sex is sometimes used, wrongly, where gender should be used.

Well sex has different meanings, its the act, gender or the part.

 

[Lethul]

Nah he's right, that's gender. What you do with the bits is sex.

Ofcourse sex is sometimes used, wrongly, where gender should be used.

Sex = male and female

Gender = masculine and feminine

So in essence:

Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.

Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.

Therefor sex is, indeed as he said the thing that is out of your control (well without sex changes).

 

[ford prefect]

Gender is one thing that IS decided beyond your control. you either have a cock or a fanny.

Sexuality is another matter. lets not get the 2 confused.

Nonsense, sexuality is not decided. There are fundamental physiological differences in how the brain develops based on sexuality, it isn't something you or your parents can simply decide. Sexuality is a product of nature, not nurture.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.

Yeap, absolutely right, that's why a homosexual man is of the female gender.

 

[Shagrat]

This does seem like a nature/nurture experiment writ large.

I'm all for letting your kids find their own way (apparently I had a 1 week infatuation with a pram that I used to push everywhere) but as in all things, you can take it a bit far.

Like others have said, looking at the big picture, this is just going to turn those childrens school time into something unpleasant. Kids can be nasty with those they see as "different"