Outcast classes

[cyan_daoc]

... void elds still get put to the back of lists or arent allowed to join...

funny how everyone always mentions voidys as they have at least ae dd ; as a light eld i didnt have any aoe spell (apart from lvl 11 pb) at lvl 45 , as you can imagine it was kinda hard to get grps ... i believe ppl rather invite 3 shades and 2 rangers than take mobs down 1 by 1

damn rare sight to see a bard mezzing in pve which imo affects also rvr , where it's hard to find a good bard..

ps. not only light elds but also light chanters have the same problem...no wonder you dont see many

 

[squeakyfrog]

I know its just so frustrating that can't get into a group because you are the "wrong" class which other ppl think.

My b/f has a lvl40 light chanter, he is certainly having fun soloing and not too bothered if he gets into a group or not. To be honest, he rather solos than being in the group. Hehe, maybe it explains why he is still lvl40 but I understand why he prefers this way, because ppl moan; ppl complain; ppl tell u what to do; ppl think they are better because they have a lvl50 character and know everything in the game etc. (dont get me wrong here, there are lots lots of nice ppl and groups).

My eld used to group with his chanter and we had to take turn to run (rule is to run in a circle, so the other can dd). Crap xp but we were having a laugh and lots of fun.

 

[Keri]

Originally posted by cyan_daoc
damn rare sight to see a bard mezzing in pve which imo affects also rvr , where it's hard to find a good bard..

How true! By the time I finally got my bard to 50, I had all but forgotten how to mezz.

 

[Faeldawn]

Tzeen is right (again) this has been done to death.

DAoC has a few realities that we all must come to accept (with a few notable exceptions):

Rangers/Shades/Void Elds will find getting a group more difficult than other classes, however this is changing slightly as many players now have an alt of one of these classes and understand the situation. Dont take it personally

90% of bards will join groups 5-10 lvls higher than they are and lvl like crazy, well, more lvl 50 bards in rvr is a good thing imho. I played a bard to lvl 43, and rvr was infuriating, bards usually get shot first, my hat is off to any bard who enjoys rvr as they are a valuable asset to the realm.

Wardens and druids will find a group even when they go /anon or /afk, a warden can lvl to 50 in under 2 weeks. In rvr wardens are tough fighters and both can heal, buff and rezz. The more wardens and druids we have the better for the realm.

Enchanters can lvl fastest of all if they wish to, pbaoe in keep defence is a marvelous thing to behold.

Please dont begrudge classes who lvl faster than others and who get more groups accordingly. We are one realm, we fight for each other, we have a common enemy (im not talking about alcohol ).

If i was a little more drunk i would launch into a hib version of the Winnie Churchill speach, but im not that drunk

 

[Cloak_]

Originally posted by Keri


How true! By the time I finally got my bard to 50, I had all but forgotten how to mezz. [/QUOTE

LOL


I`d mezz in PB grps anyway just to *practice*

 

[Qte Eth]

lights elds -they are nice in fin grps if they are clever enuff and spec 26 mana before .
light ench -why can make light ench?hes dd damage will be less then mana ench with light staff who debuffs and base dd afterwards etc
void eld-why can man STILL want void eld?
hmm i think there are nearly no old 50 void elds now around and guess why
noone here mentions how hard is to exp a mentalism menta and guess why,but u mention void elds and light enchs who are close to menta ment efficiency(just its a bit harder to consider then ment ment)

 

[inuyasha]

Hehe

Its a slight difference with fins and not fins really =)

At fin level, nightshades and rangers and anyone does a decent job, case of evade/bubble =) With timed bubble im pretty sure my enchanter could tank a fin and thats no joke. My feeling at fins is that anyone who is supposed to maby be able to tank at fins, get listed, and usually get 2 spots.

The only ones who is neglected at the fins list, is mages who do not give area damage or mana regen, aka mentalism mentalists (like anyone make one such) light/enchantment enchanters (why there is 98/100 mana enches ) and light eldriches. Not really sure how this ones is supposed to level this levels, but at least not at fins. Any other mage get 2 spots here.

However, at lower levels...

Nightshades/rangers are TERRIBLE tanks, having lower evade, bad armor, no shield (usually), no good chains and no hp at all, and of course, none or 8 second bubblechant. Alas, they are unwanted and do rarely get groups easy ,( This make alot of people have to solo up to fins, or close, so fins seems not to be the best of examples to say wheter or not a class is popular in groups or not.

The same casters are more or less neglected at this levels as well =)

Wardens are not either that popular on the lower levels due to lack of bubble =)

Nightshades own at tanking at 40+, but they are still a hell to level, i gave up mine eeeearlie =)

 

[squeakyfrog]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
light ench -why can make light ench?hes dd damage will be less then mana ench with light staff who debuffs and base dd afterwards etc
void eld-why can man STILL want void eld?
hmm i think there are nearly no old 50 void elds now around and guess why

Haven't given up my void eld yet and will lvl her to 50 soon or later. maybe there are ppl out there want some characters different from others and we are having fun! When my eld was fully active, not getting into a group never bothered my too much though.

 

[inuyasha]

Qte

Originally posted by Qte Eth
lights elds -they are nice in fin grps if they are clever enuff and spec 26 mana before .
light ench -why can make light ench?hes dd damage will be less then mana ench with light staff who debuffs and base dd afterwards etc
void eld-why can man STILL want void eld?
hmm i think there are nearly no old 50 void elds now around and guess why
noone here mentions how hard is to exp a mentalism menta and guess why,but u mention void elds and light enchs who are close to menta ment efficiency(just its a bit harder to consider then ment ment)

Qte

Light enchanters rewl
You should know
Light enches give ALOT more damage then the silly mana idiot enches does, speccing 26 mana (which you need) you get the first debuff anyway, and beeing reliable on that st00pid debuff to be able to do decent damage is folly Light is alot better for solo rvring, its alot better for solo xping and its alot better for powerleveling once your passed level 40. I have had 5 enchanters of different specs (7 in total) and of all, the light ench is the waay better solo, which is a reason i bet many pick this spec, since alot of people are quite bored of groups at least until 40+. Beside...tried the light blast when the target IS debuffed from another chanter with the best debuff? dead target

i could set quite alot of different scenarios where light enc > mana ench i assure you =)

As of void eldriches...no real clue why they level them, but from 40-50 its a quite decent rvr spec indeed, so no wonder they take it after respecc. The bolts and the gtaoe owns, and when you add a although quite weak area damage to that, is cannot be justified to say that it simply suck So plez now tell us why

Why people speak of mana ments and void eldriches instead of ment ments....there ARE no ment ments, thats why Why in the ages would any ment spec ment? =)

 

[Faeldawn]

Re: Hehe

Originally posted by inuyasha
Its a slight difference with fins and not fins really =)

However, at lower levels...

Nightshades/rangers are TERRIBLE tanks, having lower evade, bad armor, no shield (usually), no good chains and no hp at all, and of course, none or 8 second bubblechant. Alas, they are unwanted and do rarely get groups easy ,( This make alot of people have to solo up to fins, or close, so fins seems not to be the best of examples to say wheter or not a class is popular in groups or not.

think you'll find that shades have best evade in the realm at all lvls bar the real low ones, they spec a weapon, so have the same attack chains as all non-casters at any given lvl. At low lvls all characters have crap armour, at least at the kind of lvls you r talking about neway.

shades also hit a lot faster than any other melee class (dependant on spec) meaning they can easily hold aggro.

agree that rangers are hopeless tanks at low lvls, but not shades.

 

[foolou]

even if this has been done to the death:

PPL think yourself, organise groups and try your tactics.

I said it here before (long long time ago) and will do again:

Gather a ranged group and go hunt fins without tanks or healers for example. It actually works. And it works even better with those so called outcast classes.
Maybe it's not as fast xp as you could have in a conventional fingroup .. but face the facts that you won't get into it so easy.

And it mustn't always be fins.

Just USE YOUR BRAIN, look for suitable mobs on those maps, gather a group and DO IT.

We've got too many all time passive players in daoc already, don't always rely on other ppl to organise your xping groups.

 

[Qte Eth]

179 damage base 50% debuff 2.6 sec cast
209 damage spec 15%debuf 2.8 sec cast
mana ench beats even light enchs _dd_
not to say having 48 pbaoe gives u _fast_ exp and great rvr damage and use
and 33.6 dps shield is uber too
being mana u can dd using light staff or pbaoe using mana (both after sc)
and being light u can only dd ,for such role id go menta
why in ages would a ment spec ment
same reasons as light ench or void eld

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

<sigh>

2 mages one manabomb, one void.

void debuffs energy.
mana debuffs cold.
mana pbaoes.
void aoes.

beats 2xmanabomb

'course I suppose you need 2 mages skilled enough to be able to debuff and switch targets instead of just stabbing 'nuke'...

 

[Aeiedil]

Re: Hehe

Originally posted by inuyasha
Its a slight difference with fins and not fins really =)

At fin level, nightshades and rangers and anyone does a decent job, case of evade/bubble =) With timed bubble im pretty sure my enchanter could tank a fin and thats no joke. My feeling at fins is that anyone who is supposed to maby be able to tank at fins, get listed, and usually get 2 spots.

The only ones who is neglected at the fins list, is mages who do not give area damage or mana regen, aka mentalism mentalists (like anyone make one such) light/enchantment enchanters (why there is 98/100 mana enches ) and light eldriches. Not really sure how this ones is supposed to level this levels, but at least not at fins. Any other mage get 2 spots here.

However, at lower levels...

Nightshades/rangers are TERRIBLE tanks, having lower evade, bad armor, no shield (usually), no good chains and no hp at all, and of course, none or 8 second bubblechant. Alas, they are unwanted and do rarely get groups easy ,( This make alot of people have to solo up to fins, or close, so fins seems not to be the best of examples to say wheter or not a class is popular in groups or not.

The same casters are more or less neglected at this levels as well =)

Wardens are not either that popular on the lower levels due to lack of bubble =)

Nightshades own at tanking at 40+, but they are still a hell to level, i gave up mine eeeearlie =)

as already said shades are far from useless. very fast hitters, when buffed i swing a 3.6 speed weapon at same speed as a 2.2 (both at cap swing speed). as for no good chains, how about the CS chains? and we have enough to supply a normal group anyway get ya facts right please

 

[inuyasha]

Hehe

Qte seems you need settings:

1 tank 1 skald is running towards you, both yellow con. Pet is messed runsong is interupted. Chanse: kill that damn skald before the tank gets to you.

Now tell me: Mana or light? =) Do you count on getting debuff in on that skald and then blast while stun holds?

There is alot of rvr places where time IS essencial, and in all these, light > mana, i live for this situations, and i WILL rock at them, so dont call me a gimp you manabomb =)
No one stand still and get debuffed and killed willingly =)

You get the level 26 pbaoe as light spec as well, and even you have to admit that light > mana soloing at all levels before you get this 50% debuff thingy as long as it exist trees. I one hit killed a orange con groveweed, and was able to kill 16 yellow/orange greenbarks straight on 1 full mana =)
You dont seem to realise there IS alot of good things speccing light rather then mana. Another example: i have a instant attack speed decrease that stop any (yes any) 2 handed and most 1 handed single meleers to be able to hit anyone in the group at all if the bubblechant is up. Quite effective on a zerg eh? its not long timer on this one at all. It last for 2 min as well, giving quite a advantage at quite alot of situations.

And my stun pwnz yours!! =)

A mentalist ment = enchantment enchanter. Both void and light have very important, and fun to play, advantages on the game.

 

[inuyasha]

To the nightshades =)

You ARE useless tanks in a group killed reds+ at level 1-30 =)
No bubble + sad armor + no ras + no hit points + no bubble is enough to make the evade at this level not enough to be a tank in any effective or safe way. However, its better then none and i would gladly take you in no matter what =)

And as i said...40+ nightshades OWN tanking =))
No worry aiendel =)

 

[squeakyfrog]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
179 damage base 50% debuff 2.6 sec cast
209 damage spec 15%debuf 2.8 sec cast
mana ench beats even light enchs _dd_
not to say having 48 pbaoe gives u _fast_ exp and great rvr damage and use
and 33.6 dps shield is uber too

Maybe I should go out to RvR more

Its the fact that manachanters' pbaoe does lots of dmg (more than other casters) I won't deny it. My question is:
1) Don't they need to be close to the enemy to get it work? Do they actully stand that close to enemy in RvR and hoping no one will spot them (especially after they starting pbaoe) or not being mezzed or rooted? If they just stand in range doing debuffs, imo they are just like all other casters really.
2) Is that 33.6dps shield for the pet? If so, when they cast it, don't they need to focus on it and doing nothing else? The Chanter dies and the pet dies and casters are casters, die in no time in rvr.

Manachanters do give fast xp, but they die a lot more often than anybody else. Then the complain starts, "did u taunt all the time?" "Why didnt you get aggro off me?" etc etc. Ehm, if a group is taking purple or red mobs, how can ppl expect that tanks won't miss a single hit during the fight?

 

[inuyasha]

hehe

Hes talking about the baseline sun spec blast, not the pbaoe.
The pbaoe DO outdamage the light enchanter...but what you said do apply =)

Pbaoe is not heat either, so the debuff does not affect.

 

[old.Charonel]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
179 damage base 50% debuff 2.6 sec cast
209 damage spec 15%debuf 2.8 sec cast
mana ench beats even light enchs _dd_

wrong

you have to factor in damage variance on the baseline light blast due to it being unspecced by the mana chanter compared to a light enchanter fully speccing his light nukes.

works out as:

manachanter:

baseline light blast 134 basedamage (due to averaging out the variance) + 50% debuff = 201DD

light chanter:

specline light blast 209 basedamage +15% debuff = 240DD

even WITHOUT debuffing, a light chanter would STILL have higher damage on the ranged nuke.

but the lvl 26 pbae just doesnt compare with the lvl 48 one, i still feel that (although it "works") a lvl 26 pbae spell really isnt enough to be main pbae for a high lvl group like fins, not when compared to the lvl 39 or 48 pbae spell, the damage is so different it's just insane.

 

[err0r]

Originally posted by Aeiedil
Mana ment : better mana regen than the majority of bards (few spec nurture)

Nice one, wtf is a bard without 43 nurture? Can you spell "gimp"

 

[old.Charonel]

can't remember that many bards i've been grouped with that have the equivelant of MR5

 

[Lessurl]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
lights elds -they are nice in fin grps if they are clever enuff and spec 26 mana before .
light ench -why can make light ench?hes dd damage will be less then mana ench with light staff who debuffs and base dd afterwards etc
void eld-why can man STILL want void eld?
hmm i think there are nearly no old 50 void elds now around and guess why
noone here mentions how hard is to exp a mentalism menta and guess why,but u mention void elds and light enchs who are close to menta ment efficiency(just its a bit harder to consider then ment ment)

wtf? What do you have against void elds? Have you ever played one? I hope you have, and a lvl 50 one at that, to be making sweeping judgements like this.
Just before i went inactive i respecced to light bcos i was getting bored of the game and felt like a change. And having played both yes light is stronger for your bog standard rvr as the most used spell is the dd so havin a strong spec dd is usefull. But i did get in more than one situation where i wished i had still been void as i would have handled it a lot better had i still had my void spec. Bolts and gtaoe if used well are very effective tools.

 

[inuyasha]

YEAH!

Sooooo

NEER!! NEER!! :touch:Qte

Only truely gimped class/specs is:

Enchantment enchanters
Mentalism mentalists.
Sucks there is no eldrichm specced eldriches that can be gimped =)

 

[Faeldawn]

hehe

 

[Aeiedil]

Re: To the nightshades =)

Originally posted by inuyasha

And as i said...40+ nightshades OWN tanking =))
No worry aiendel =)

spell the name right Aeindil = gimpy champion Aeiedil\Aeiedel = me

 

[Aeiedil]

Originally posted by err0r


Nice one, wtf is a bard without 43 nurture? Can you spell "gimp"

let me rephrase, few spec nurture to 50 for mana regen 5, however ments get mana regen 5 at 40-45ish i think, not sure where, but at any rate they get it before bards do because even if bards get it itll only be at level 50 that better?

 

[Pempulla]

Originally posted by old.Charonel
can't remember that many bards i've been grouped with that have the equivelant of MR5

I don't believe there is such a bard... a shame really =P, but there is really NO reasonable way to justify speccing a bard to 50 nurture (gimps the music line quite a lot). 21 music, 50 nurture, 37 regrowth 5 blunts/blades would be my choice if I HAD to get mana 5 song. Still a 42 sec castable stun... and a truly excellent grp heal... hmm....

 

[inuyasha]

Originally posted by Pempulla


21 music, 50 nurture, 37 regrowth 5 blunts/blades would be my choice if I HAD to get mana 5 song. ---->>Still a 42 sec castable stun<----... and a truly excellent grp heal... hmm....

Now THAT would make hibernia owerpowered =))

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Gargo is 50 nurture.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

oh, and my mentalist healed better than my bard lol... even with Tzee at 4x, he healed better than my bard at 50.

6spec mentalism > 16 regrowth?

weird.