Order players.. what would make your ideal rvr team?

[Xanthian]

Drop the IB for a WP imo

Why replace a IB with a WP?
WP doesnt do half the damage, has no way near as many HP, doesn't have guard.
Fair enough it has heals but they are barely useful.

WP is a very strong solo/duo class but I doubt it would be useful in a bomb group setup.

 

[Fefner]

One of our setups will probably be:

2x RP
2x IB
1x BW
1x Eng

 

[Brack]

mental note, marauder assist train required

I was gonna quote robot and xan with the 3 BW, 2 RP + 1 IB group but figured i'd quote film with ... that group would work on ranged as immolation and or incin spec and for melee assist groups could respec for pbaoe xD

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

all classes have good utility and a rightful place in some group.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I was gonna quote robot and xan with the 3 BW, 2 RP + 1 IB group but figured i'd quote film with ... that group would work on ranged as immolation and or incin spec and for melee assist groups could respec for pbaoe xD

cloth pbaoe group meets melee dps pbaoe group...

messy... though 3 bw's firing off that pulsing pbaoe could be nice

 

[Popov]

Why replace a IB with a WP?
WP doesnt do half the damage, has no way near as many HP, doesn't have guard.
Fair enough it has heals but they are barely useful.

WP is a very strong solo/duo class but I doubt it would be useful in a bomb group setup.

WP does half the dmg of an IB? sometimes I wonder if we played in the same beta Xan....

WP brings group shield, group hot and has a pbae of his own (Soulfire) a cleave AE attack and a pbae channeled heal to everything in 30 yards(martyrs Blessing).
If that group attacked me the last thing I'd be worried about would be the IB tbh.

Also double same type healer is never a good idea in WAR, I'd rather have 1 of each for better buffs and I didn't think same HoT type stacked (could be wrong)

 

[Flimgoblin]

IB can fire off a "hold the line" if you get a lot of incoming dd fire, plus they have a couple of AoEs too - shame you don't get both that and the knockdown.

It's a bit early to say for definite which is better.

 

[Flimgoblin]

WP does half the dmg of an IB? sometimes I wonder if we played in the same beta Xan....

WP brings group shield, group hot and has a pbae of his own (Soulfire) a cleave AE attack and a pbae channeled heal to everything in 30 yards(martyrs Blessing).
If that group attacked me the last thing I'd be worried about would be the IB tbh.

Also double same type healer is never a good idea in WAR, I'd rather have 1 of each for better buffs and I didn't think same HoT type stacked (could be wrong)

I coulda sworn I'd seen the buffs and hots all stack as long as it was from different people - mighta been a bug but I'm sure I had two archmage resist buffs running (had another archmage in group).

 

[Brack]

aye i decided last week archmage+RP would be a better combo in a group than 2 RP but forget when i posted, the BW pbaoe is very nice dmg film but its situational so most won't spec it (i guess)

edit: forgot its kinda nice that the BW pbaoe is insta cast no cd so u can run around spamming it xD

 

[Popov]

Yeah I've had the multi buffs etc but lots of bugs flying about so not sure which way was right, hence why I said I wasn't sure.

Anyway I'd actually like both of them in my RvR group if possible, they both bring some very good group abilities to the fight, things are a bit tight with only 6 group spots so something useful is always going to get dropped with 10 classes to choose from. (and I'm biased as WP is my chosen class)

I would actually describe my ideal Order WAR RvR group as any six classes ballanced between healing and offense played by 6 people who had a clue and all on voice comm's

 

[thergador]

cloth pbaoe group meets melee dps pbaoe group...

messy... though 3 bw's firing off that pulsing pbaoe could be nice

is casting
daocish ie hit and you stop with a delay
wowish hit slow the cast by knocking it back a bit
or something else

as that will have a big affect on grp make ups

 

[Popov]

is casting
daocish ie hit and you stop with a delay
wowish hit slow the cast by knocking it back a bit
or something else

as that will have a big affect on grp make ups

It's very similar/exactly the same as WoW, taking damage while casting knocks the bar back a bit increasing cast time; taking damage when channeling reduces the channel duration or stops it working completely.(including channeled melee abilities)

 

[thergador]

so in other words 3 catser dps/aoe/pbaoe and 3 healers as a grp will work then

 

[Brack]

the BW speclines are pbaoe, DD or dot actually

 

[Popov]

so in other words 3 catser dps/aoe/pbaoe and 3 healers as a grp will work then

I don't think a definitive answer is possible at this point as class ballancing is still in progress but I'd have to say a pbae RvR will not work as well as it did in DAoC (more so for Order). This is due to there being a lot less CC plus knockdowns, knockbacks and morale abilities which can instantly drain your AP or other pools used to power your abilities.
Many setups are workable and as I said due to smaller group sizes the perfect one group setup seems unobtainable, but a skilled group who work to their strengths could make any setup including pbae work well I'm sure.

 

[Brack]

pbaoe grp won't work altho it would have been fun mainly due to lack of aoe cc any decent group will just run away from/ cc 3 casters charging at em (other than the lack of cc the pbaoe dmg and fact you can run around doing it would have made it v easy )

 

[Xanthian]

WP does half the dmg of an IB? sometimes I wonder if we played in the same beta Xan....

WP brings group shield, group hot and has a pbae of his own (Soulfire) a cleave AE attack and a pbae channeled heal to everything in 30 yards(martyrs Blessing).
If that group attacked me the last thing I'd be worried about would be the IB tbh.

Also double same type healer is never a good idea in WAR, I'd rather have 1 of each for better buffs and I didn't think same HoT type stacked (could be wrong)

I wasn't speaking literally but I'm sure you got the jist of what I was saying

Maybe replacing 1 of the RP with a WP could be good, but you would lack the constant healing due to the stupid WP mechanic.
WP doesnt really have many AE attacks either (1?) so imo IB would be more suited for the 'bomb' group setup especially with guard.

 

[Flimgoblin]

is casting
daocish ie hit and you stop with a delay
wowish hit slow the cast by knocking it back a bit
or something else

as that will have a big affect on grp make ups

you can cast in combat but it'll slow you down.

Cast-time spells have a chance to be set back when you get hit, focus spells have their time-left reduced every time you get hit (so e.g. if you have a focus spell that pulses for 3s while you concentrate - every hit will reduce that 3s, so you might end up only pulsing for 2s)

Edit: bah popov got there first

 

[Tallen]

Why replace a IB with a WP?
WP doesnt do half the damage, has no way near as many HP, doesn't have guard.
Fair enough it has heals but they are barely useful.

WP is a very strong solo/duo class but I doubt it would be useful in a bomb group setup.

Guard is reasonably useless if you have 5 players to protect, simply cannot be done effectively. The IB's damage output is very poor and the WP berings far more to the group's survivability (AF buff, melee healing, group heals hots etc) although admittedly the IB has better survivability on his own, but if the other 5 are dead, that barely matters..

Barely useful heals? You obviously haven't seen what a well played WP can do...(that being said, i guess no-one has really as it's still beta )

 

[Tallen]

pbaoe grp won't work altho it would have been fun mainly due to lack of aoe cc any decent group will just run away from/ cc 3 casters charging at em (other than the lack of cc the pbaoe dmg and fact you can run around doing it would have made it v easy )

Remember it's not all PB aoe, a lot of it is ranged aoe and you could get one MA BW to select the healer/support pack and then all three simply nuke the crap out of them all at range, then mop-up the remaining melee

 

[Tallen]

so in other words 3 catser dps/aoe/pbaoe and 3 healers as a grp will work then

In all honesty if you can pack a few herler-types in there, theres not a lot that won't work

Thats really what Mythic have done well in Warhammer, they have learnt from their DAoC experiences with certain classes being needed and others being gimped and shunned when it comes to groups.

Oh, and the ultimate small-range group imo for damage output (similar to pbaoe, but not exactly) would be 6 engineers

 

[Caylan Raal]

always worth considering if people run in "2grp" wargroups. 12 may be a touch too large a group, but offers another perspective with regards group composition and the utilities other classes can offer.

 

[Tallen]

always worth considering if people run in "2grp" wargroups. 12 may be a touch too large a group, but offers another perspective with regards group composition and the utilities other classes can offer.

Thats an interesting point. I wonder if we will see 12-man v 12-man instead of 6v6 away from the main splatter-fest

 

[Enli]

Dot specs are nasty aswell, 3 BW dotting 3 targets would mean focused healing from the ennemy

WP is a good grp char but not suited as primary healer as he is also supposed to be running about there

 

[Enli]

Thats an interesting point. I wonder if we will see 12-man v 12-man instead of 6v6 away from the main splatter-fest

somehow that reminds me of terra dominus and backup guard, old frontier memories

 

[Downanael]

Thats really what Mythic have done well in Warhammer, they have learnt from their DAoC experiences with certain classes being needed and others being gimped and shunned when it comes to groups.

Just look at this, not much variance i say.

The line up i think vengeance will run with mostly will be:

Ironbreaker
Rune Priest
Rune Priest
Bright Wizard
Bright Wizard
Bright Wizard

 

[Robot]

Well we will probally have other variations in WAR. That there is no doubt. But from our time during the beta this was the setup we not only enjoyed but felt was most effective in pve and rvr.

 

[Xanthian]

Guard is reasonably useless if you have 5 players to protect, simply cannot be done effectively. The IB's damage output is very poor and the WP berings far more to the group's survivability (AF buff, melee healing, group heals hots etc) although admittedly the IB has better survivability on his own, but if the other 5 are dead, that barely matters..

Barely useful heals? You obviously haven't seen what a well played WP can do...(that being said, i guess no-one has really as it's still beta )

I guess you didn't play an IB or maybe even a WP
IB damage is fantastic in the right spec line, much better than WP.
You can also swap guard and guarding a healer or the MA when you rush in would be a life saver. The fact u can have the Oathbearer on a caster to thats probaby going to take a beating you can almost guarantee the IB will have full grudge most of the time = more dmg!

WP heals are 'ok' if you spec for them (which pretty much gimps your melee ability) and you don't really need 3 healers in a group, losing too much DPS.
Like I said before you could maybe replace 1 of the RP but then again the healing mechanic on the WP will come back to bite you.

Don't get me wrong though, WP is a great class, and I was temped to play one, but being jack of all trades & master of nothing puts a downer on the class.

 

[Roffe]

Runepriest
Archmage
Warrior priest
Ironbreaker
Engineer
Shadow warrior

3x armour debuff
2x toughness debuff
2 different healing debuffs (don't stack)
haste master rune for all the ranged dps/healing
and a crap load of cc

above = WIN

 

[Xanthian]

Where are all these shadow warriors coming from

From what I gathered they are pretty weak especially in melee (besides looking cool in the recent Vid).


Melee Assist Train Group


Ironbreaker (Vengeance)
Warrior Priest (Wrath)
White Lion (Axeman)
Witch Hunter (No Idea )
Rune Priest
Archmage