Omglol! Finally!

[Danya]

Originally posted by Orin Askhammare
At least in group RvR you can stealth when combat begins and possibly survive long enough to receive some rps

And get moaned at by the group for not running power/speed or mezzing and with the new heal mez, get moaned at for that. And If I stealth in the middle of a group you just get AEed.
In the same way that mythic doesn't know if the thane is a warrior or a caster, they have no idea at all what a minstrel is. The utter mismatch between short range melee-assist shouts and the long range castable aemez/heal mez is just broken. Do they want us to run into combat and fight or stand at the back and cast?

 

[Flimgoblin]

Dannyn, go roll a s/s armsman

if you can, get it to RvR whilst it's still 1.50

 

[Danya]

Hey gotta be more fun than being the speedbitch.
At least if a tank runs up you have at least some chance of defending yourself.

 

[Coren]

Danyan comes straight from the vnboards.

 

[old.LandShark]

/em watches Mythic try and fix something, fail 3 times, then add a successful fix on top of all the other failures and thus convert the whole thing in a nerf for CC classes and rogues :>

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Coren
Danyan comes straight from the vnboards.

Nah they're even worse there.

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Dannyn

Hey it could be worse - I'm a Support Rogue™! I get to support the group with my speed song... and I get the crap damage of a rogue, woohoo! And my "fix" this patch? Ethereal Bond, a completely useless RA. Thanks Mythic!
<goes off to roll an inf>

Oh yeah - you get runsong, powersong, stealth, charm at even skill level, stun, castable mezz., damage shouts, chain armour ......

Why is it all minstrels call them self underpowered and nerfed more than anybody else, but everybody else outside Alb. (almost all) thinks gimstrels are overpowered

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Dannyn
Hey gotta be more fun than being the speedbitch.
At least if a tank runs up you have at least some chance of defending yourself.

Nah you're usually mezzed, and get to watch them kill your healer, your mezzer and then htem and their mates all strike you at once

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Xandax


Oh yeah - you get runsong, powersong, stealth, charm at even skill level, stun, castable mezz., damage shouts, chain armour ......

Why is it all minstrels call them self underpowered and nerfed more than anybody else, but everybody else outside Alb. (almost all) thinks gimstrels are overpowered

Yes I have all these things, but they don't fit together and none are particularly powerful. Minstrel doesn't feel nice to play, it feels like mythic needed to add some things to Albion and just threw them all into a class together. For instance, if you use charm that negates most of my other abilities. Stealth also negates a lot of abilities (and isn't particularly useful now). Runsong and powersong are nice, but well you start them and then thats it, they're not exactly exciting. Stun and mezz are nice, but CC in general is being nerfed out of the game so getting less and less useful. DD shouts, good while they last (roughly 3 casts), also hit hard by the resistance changes (which were aimed at pure casters, mythic never stopped to think about wider implications to hybrids). Chain armour isn't that big a deal, sure it has good absorb, but that doesn;t help against nukes, and I have minimal evade and unspec shield. And using a shield negates half my abilities. Getting the picture here, most of my time is spent trying to sitch from doing one thing to the other. Minstrel has no sense of being a class that fits together. Add in AE mez and heal mez for even more effect - they're casted, you have to stand still.
The phrase Jack of all trades and master of none sums minstrel right up. Unfortunately (for me) in DAoC it's better to be a master than an all rounder.

 

[tris-]

stupid

10 seconds of sprint isnt gonna do shit. if your chasing someone who has a speed buff or something your never gonna catch em, even if you had 10 hours of sprint

 

[Xandax]

@ Dannyn

So basically you want to be able to use all your great abilities at the same time?
Like charming a level 50 mob then stealthing and swithing on run-song and pulsing with powersong without loosing charm and stealth.
And your shouts should have nukeing capability.
And you should be able to spec in and use shield better then now?.......

Sorry - don't get it - you choose a class with tremendous powers and complain that they can't be used at the same time?

I still say that charm at equal skill level (with risk of it breaking sure), stun, 2 DD shouts, stealth while wearing chain (no other stealther class can wear chain) all adds up into to much power in one class.

Only thing I like about minstrel, being on the reciving end, is the 1.5x skill points they get - but sure you want 2.5 like your infils

 

[Danya]

"So basically you want to be able to use all your great abilities at the same time?"
No, I just want the abilities to fit together in some sort of pattern rather than being just a random collection. A rogue who can cast heal mez, I mean seriously that just mixing two completely different types of ability in one class. It just looks messy.

"Like charming a level 50 mob then stealthing and swithing on run-song and pulsing with powersong without loosing charm and stealth."
Stealth negating run / charm etc. is fine. Stealth is useless though, just a spec point sink. I didn't have a problem with stealth before it became useless.

"And your shouts should have nukeing capability."
If I'm going to stand at the back and heal mez etc. I'd like nuker range (not damage) on my shouts. Thanes have it after all.

"And you should be able to spec in and use shield better then now?"
Nope, spec shield would be overkill, that was merely illustrating minstrel's lack of defense, if I'm hit while using the majority of my abilities I have no shield, thus loosing 1/3 of my defensive abilities (the other 2/3 being evade).

Sorry - don't get it - you choose a class with tremendous powers and complain that they can't be used at the same time?
No, I'm complaining that they just don't belong in the same class. Mythic don't know whether I'm a support class (stand at the back and cast), a light tank (run in and melee), or a rogue (sneak about). As it is I get all of these. If they want me to support, give me some decent support abilities (like the longer range DDs, maybe some better group enchancement abilites), running speedsong isn't exactly exciting and that's my main support role atm. If they want me to tank then loose some of the support stuff and boost my melee, or perhaps allow me to use chants in melee. If they want me to be a rogue, make me able to sneak about without getting PAed the whole time.

"I still say that charm at equal skill level (with risk of it breaking sure), stun, 2 DD shouts, stealth while wearing chain (no other stealther class can wear chain) all adds up into to much power in one class."
Ghetto-stealth with chain and evade 2 is nothing compaired to real-stealth plus leather and evade 7 (infil). I would swap my chain for leather and evade 5 (what friars get), it'd be at least as useful. Also no other stealther can wear chain, but all other stealthers have the ability to hit for a lot of damage (archer crit shots, assassin critstrike), minstrels don't.

1.5x spec points is fine, we only have two useful lines to spec anyway.

 

[klavrynd]

<gives xandax a "klavvie power whine"-badge>
i couldn't have said it better


anyhow back on topic

zerk TL has been asking for sprint 2 for ages and in one neglectable post someone mentioned "charge". Now would i have said "ok, its a start" if they used it as an ABILITY you gain at , say level 30, but no, another 5 ra points down the drain and it's probably not worth it

Prevent Flight is just their way of saying, "ok we overpowered assasin classes but if we give you 100% chance we'll get the entire kiting assasin population on our necks so we'll use some bogus percentage so everyone's happy and assasins will still rule since no sane human being will spend 14 points into this

melee patch my ass, where are the style changes ? casters get tons of patched/tweaked/new spells and for melee the just change some ra's and call it done?

bet you all one cherry pie minstrels will get quite a boost in the next patch since they're gonna "look at hybrids"

bet you all one apple pie skalds will get nerfed to hell and back again

 

[old.LandShark]

I admire your patience typing all that out again Dannyn, we've both said it millions of times before, but hey.
So, uh, since you almost certainly said everything that I have to say on this subject, i can add only
shut the fuck up Xandax, know whereof you speak or don't speak at all

edit: btw, like the minstrel loving? We finally get instruments higher than lvl35 (if we go out and hunt em) and we can get the inreased power RA!
Hmm... ethereal bond 1: raises power pool by 3%.
Prerequisite: serenity 2
in turn, prerequisite of ser.2: aug acuity 2
congratulations minstrels, for only 1+3+1+3+1 RA points you can have 3% more power!
And your top DD uses 20% even if your acuity stat is capped from items.
Hey!
For only all my RP's up to rank2L9, i can get most of one DD shout for free! Cheers Mythic, careful you don't get us nerfed again though, eh?

 

[old.Arnor]

Dannyn: Cry me a river liberal


The melee-fix-patch is a start, not a divine gift, we still need more LOVE!


Oh, and if someone DARES to complain about CC in rvr being nerfed:
Yeah, I loove running up close to a caster that has nuked me for half my hps, to get stunned and pbaoed to death, yeah thanks a whole fucking lot.
Now, im not bitching at mythic to nerf CC, although I dont mind if it happens.

And styles? Dont make me start

 

[old.Xarr]

dannyn stop hijacking this thread with your minstrel (or gimpstrel as you so neatly put it in your sig) whining. go look up the word 'hybrid' in a dictionary and return when you have. minstrels ain't gimped. period.

 

[Orin Askhammare]

Would everyone keep in mind that this is patch 1.53A?

Thank you...

 

[old.Xarr]

Originally posted by Orin Askhammare
Would everyone keep in mind that this is patch 1.53A?

Thank you...

yeah that too

 

[old.linnet]

Hmm, think I will roll a sorcerer now! (Yay! Boogeys in the catacombs -- that rocks!)

(Spec shield wouldn't be overpowering for minstrel though -- we'd still only have 1.5 pts/level to spread between skills. Would be nice as a replacement for stealth. What I would actually like now is unspeccable duel wield, so that I could pretend to be a mercenary )



Lin

 

[Myshra]

wow casters got pissed on eh.

considering now everyone will have 26% resist fire/cold/energy thanks to spell crafting and with resist buffs we can probably do 200(-400) now!

all a tank needs to do is 2 style hit me. yeah thanks mythic, you gave us a good one there. either caster damage is gonna go up or we are all gonna have to be able to defend ourselves (hibs got this one sorted already ) cause now i can see us all as fodder

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.Xarr
dannyn stop hijacking this thread with your minstrel (or gimpstrel as you so neatly put it in your sig) whining. go look up the word 'hybrid' in a dictionary and return when you have. minstrels ain't gimped. period.

Says the skald. I rolled a skald today and OMG, WTF am I in albion. Skald is about 50 times nicer to play than minstrel. No instruments, songs you can use in combat, everything is insta, it's just so much nicer to play and feels more like a class that fits together. (BTW, no I don't think skalds need nerfing, they're pretty much balanced).

 

[old.Arnor]

If a skald cant say that cuz hes such a good class, here:

dannyn stop hijacking this thread with your minstrel (or gimpstrel as you so neatly put it in your sig) whining. go look up the word 'hybrid' in a dictionary and return when you have. minstrels ain't gimped. period.

From a very gimped class(according to some ppl, I dont think im gimped at all, but what if thats whats gimped about zerkers.... hmm)

 

[old.yaruar]

Originally posted by old.Pepsay


"MELEE CLASS UPDATE

<snipped>

thats the fecking 'melee patch', reduced cost on some realm abilities and 2 new abilities... second 'melee patch' thats not a melee patch god i hate mythic.

It helps if you understand the patch process. THis is test patch 1.53a. Note the "a" there will be a b, c, etc. probably all the way to i or higher. THen when they have tested all the things from all of them they will impliment. Each will have different tweaks.

 

[old.Xarr]

Okay let's bury the hatchet for now and wait till the rest of 1.53 gets released eh? I didn't mention the Skald class in my post, just wanted to say that Minstrel ain't so gimped. There are other classes that dearly needs loving before the minstrel. These would be namely the Warrior and Thane of midgard.

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by old.LandShark
<snip>
shut the fuck up Xandax, know whereof you speak or don't speak at all
<snip>

Oh yeah - somebody disagree with the "gimps" and now they don't know what they talk about

So what do you know of my "minstrel experiences" - please do tell the rest of the board, I am sure you know me so well - tosser.

 

[old.LandShark]

You don't have to agree with me - well, since I'm right your choices are to either agree with me or be wrong, but nm - just that your reply to Dannyn's post made very little sense.
What class are you Xandax, a thane? A Warrior-hp tank with slam, high specced melee, and uber nukes?

To that, a thane would say "but i DON'T have warrior hps, my nukes don't burn they tickle, and i'm not on the fighter damage table!"

Well, to your stealther-in-chain with leet charm (nice of you to acknowledge the 'risk' of charm breaking) and DDs and Stun and melee and omfg omfg your class owns so much blah bla blah.
Bullshit.
I'm *happy* with my class. But this kind of bull just makes me angry, because... well....
That charm? Do you have any idea what a fucking PAIN it is to use it? It's not a risk of breaking, it's an absolute certainty. 45+13 instruments and my level 47 (that's 11 lower than my skill, folks) pet resisted, on average, once per two minutes while i was attempting to solo my lvl48 epic. Now, when I cast mezz/speed/power/healsong, charm stops pulsing. This means in order to do any of these things, i have to get the instrument out, start the song, stop the song, target my pet, recast charm. Then play the power/speed song again. Of course, mezz - recharm - mezz - charm is not a particularly fluid operation since it's blasted hard to target your pet in a laggy emain zerg. How many times have you died to leet minstrel pets? Mmmm?
Yeah, thought so.
Stun... hmm, have you even READ US patch notes? Next patch, my stun is going to be 4.5secs against any shmuck with decent items. Against a smart player with body resist buffs and, god forbid, any of the relevant RAs, my stun is fucked matey... even more so than slam, because slam doesn't take 20% of my power on top of the end.
DD's? Don't make me laugh, the lvl50 minstrel on Guinevere i have access to is respecced to 50thrust/43instruments - didn't ever GET the final DD shout because it typically hits for 30 points or so under it's delve value. At least the 2nd and 3rd-from-last DDs don't empty your end bar quite as fast.

All this really has been said before - Xandax, to summarise, I don't NEED to know you to know that you have no high-level minstrel experience, because you wouldn't believe that crap you typed if you had..

My class is OK. It is not overpowered. It is not uber. it IS a mishmash of badly-put-together weak abilities, but I love it nonetheless. I just don't like every arsehole that knows how to type www.classesofcamelot.com into a webbrowser coming to forums and sticking a 'nerf me' note to the minstrel's back. Just give over. Play a skald, then play a minstrel, you'll be laughing your arse off at the difference.

 

[old.linnet]

I agree with all of that, but you can target your pet quickly by clicking on its name in the pet control window




Lin

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by old.LandShark
<snip>
Play a skald, then play a minstrel, you'll be laughing your arse off at the difference.

Ehh - that is because one is a fighter-hybrid and the other is a rogue-hybrid

/em thinks he hit a spot that hurts.

Complain that your even skill charm breaks every 2 min. or when you try to swicth to another song (but I want to use my run song together with my charm) - jeez.
(hunters would kill for a charm that actually could be usefull)

And btw - I didn't say minstrels "ownz" anybody - I'm just sick of seeing minstrels with all their great abilities (and imo to many) keep whining about how nerfed beyond belief they are (when most others that actually fights minstrels seems to think otherwise).

And your 4.5 Stun - is plenty to get away and stealth and come back again.

And no, I've actually never been killed by a minstrels pet, but *whining sounds* - that is because they can't stealth with it.... seems minstrels are still pleased enough with their "ghetto" stealth *whining sounds* to use it.

To me it seems the case of: "I want it all, and I want it now"

Besides this is not a discussion for this thread - sorry I've gone OT.

 

[old.Arnor]

What class are you Xandax, a thane? A Warrior-hp tank with slam, high specced melee, and uber nukes?

OMFG! surely you jest landshark?

Uber-nukes? Hardly, Mzfkrs? Oh yes, high-specced melee? yes, slam? not unless you wanna miss out on all the "uber" nukes, and warrior-hp? Ahahahahha, <wipes a tear> more like rougish hps mac.


Thanes need RvR lovving, thats just how it is, they rock in PvE, but thats just the means, RvR is the goal

 

[kr0n]

All tanks are gonna be TEH KILLAHS in 1.53 if thise 1.53A goes live.

No mage is able to keel a tank anymore. Basically CC is fucked now totally. Nothing to CC left! Everyone has purge. Blah Mythic, hope they change this in 1.53B :/