OK, this whole 'selling drops for cash' thing has got way out of hand

[deadkid]

Originally posted by svartmetall
Well...to me, the difference is, you make the item knowing what you're making, and it's an order, so from the start it's being made to be sold.

I make it coz i make.. and i didnt take MP orders when was crafting so I was selling stuff like poeple sell drops =)

 

[Weeping Willow]

No we were having a guildgroup. And the drops you get are more than 1p if you salvage them. And we got exp aswell.

And this discussion is meaningless, everyone is free to sell their stuff for whatever they like.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by deadkid
I make it coz i make.. and i didnt take MP orders when was crafting so I was selling stuff like poeple sell drops =)

Crafted drops are still different...you pay a lot for materials, and I'll bet crafting is a lot less fun than raiding.
Also mobs don't go "I will drop a snacky item for you, but you'll have to give me 50 bars of arcanium first", do they?

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by aginamist
No we were having a guildgroup. And the drops you get are more than 1p if you salvage them. And we got exp aswell.

Ah, I get you. It's just that I have seen people offering to pay money to be powerlevelled...and had a bad moment.

And this discussion is meaningless, everyone is free to sell their stuff for whatever they like.

It's not remotely meaningless, it's about the ethics of charging huge sums of cash for drops. Read my initial post again. You are GM of a guild named after a Manowar song/album, so I would expect to understand the following question: are your fellow Midgardians "brothers of metal" or "crumbs"...?

Oh, and DEATH TO FALSE METAL btw

 

[rg-zorena]

Originally posted by svartmetall
This minor rant was sparked off by the 2,485th. "WTS..." post on our /as last night.

First time I ever saw someone ask for cash was ages ago, when I was lvling my main at H...saw someone say "selling [can't remember what item was], 200G" and I remember thinking jesus, that's lame, making people PAY for a mob drop...? Now, we have a situation where people lotto for drops they can't use solely so they can sell them for huge sums of cash - just look on the Midgard Trading forum, people STARTING bididng at 4 or 5 plat - TG drops being the most egregious example of this kind of thing.

Drops are FREE. If you get, say, a hammer you can't use, fucking GIVE it to someone else who can! Don't turn round to another player and go "oh, well, I rolled higher than you in a lotto even though I can never use this hammer but you can have it if you give me 4,000 Gold" or some bullshit like that.

I say again, drops are FREE. Your Epic armour? It's meant for YOU. And you got a shitload of XP for getting it. That TG drop? Didn't pay any money to the fucking mob for it, now, did you (Councilor Nokkvi drops a Bloody Nice Sword, and says "That'll be 5,000 Gold please"!)? And in fact that mob gave you a whole heap of XP for it as as well. So, actually, it wouldn't hurt you to just give that staff/hauberk/gem/whatever to someone who can use it, because it would make their night. XPing at Lair? Got a nice bracer or something you can't use/don't need? Well that's just a bonus, you're there for the XP, so give it to someone, don't demand 100G or whatever.

I NEVER charge money for drops, IMO it's exploitative rip-off bullshit; if I get something I can't use, I just give it to someone rather than going "I have that thing you wanted, if you spend days and days farming you can have it" because that's just greed, plain and simple. The furthest I will go is to trade drops; I have a TG pair of Bonedancer gloves and TG bracer that I'd like to swap for a TG axe, but I refuse to pay extortionate rip-off prices (and yes, I can afford 5 plat for a TG axe, but I refuse to pay on general principle - so don't give me any shit about 'oh he's just bitter because he doesn't have any money') and I certainly refuse to charge them. I prefer to view other players as my Realm mates/allies/whatever, rather than a market to be fleeced for as much cash as possible.

I like to farm Ornulf in Dellingstad for those ROG cloak drops, they can be uber, and when I get ones I can't use, I just give them to ppl who can use them. It's a nice feeling to make someone's night...I think back to how I felt at lvl 4 when someone just randomly came up to me and gave me some bits of kit because he was feeling nice. Case in point - I've been lvling my Savage, and two nights ago did a quest and got a claw as reward (I'd thought I'd get a choice of rewards and was kind of hoping for a belt choice); didn't really need it, so gave it to a Savage I walked past in Aegir, made their night.

I guess it's all down to what kind of Realm we want to play in. A co-operative community, or a greed-crazed marketplace where everything has price, including fun...I vote for the former.

stop crying that you didn't get the item and farm some cash or better luck next useless tg raid with 70+ ppl for 20-30 items

 

[kathal_tdd]

Originally posted by svartmetall
...! Make 1P from powerlevelling? You were charging money to powerlevel people?

Now what’s wrong with that??
One ppl need XP and one need gold. So they make a deal.
That fine by me. But you wanna forbid them to make the deal??

 

[svartmetall]

Re: Re: OK, this whole 'selling drops for cash' thing has got way out of hand

Originally posted by rg-zorena
stop crying that you didn't get the item and farm some cash or better luck next useless tg raid with 70+ ppl for 20-30 items

Show me where I was 'crying' in that post, please? Show me where I mention an item I was after?

 

[Weeping Willow]

I would never pl someone for INGAME money (haven't done for RL money either but I would consider offers regarding that) levling is far too boring to do for something like ingame money, i've pled five of my own chars to 50 and that almost killed me IRL.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by kathal_tdd
Now what’s wrong with that??
One ppl need XP and one need gold. So they make a deal.
That fine by me. But you wanna forbid them to make the deal??

I just think paying money to be powerlevelled is pretty much on a par with buying your char on Ebay...you end up with a lvl 50 you have no clue how to play. Utterly lame...people who can't even be bothered to play their character, just want to be lvl50...

 

[Weeping Willow]

Originally posted by svartmetall
I just think paying money to be powerlevelled is pretty much on a par with buying your char on Ebay...you end up with a lvl 50 you have no clue how to play. Utterly lame...people who can't even be bothered to play their character, just want to be lvl50...

That isn't true, if you know one char good and have played in RvR groups with it (not some random pickupgroup a wellbalanced group) you pretty much know most chars after a short while.

 

[gutrot]

I can see your point svart, but its a bit idealistic (like communism) and it will never work with people the way they are. Also, i think you have to take into account the fact that taking a lvl50 on a TG raid takes a lot of time for potentially no reward, so i think its understandable that some will basically roll for the money if they cant get the drop they were after.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by gutrot
I can see your point svart, but its a bit idealistic

What's wrong with a bit of idealism? Hell, if we can't even be altruistic in a GAME, we're pretty much fucked in real life, aren't we? "Sure, I'll help you across the road, frail old lady...that'll be £10 please."

...it will never work with people the way they are.

Hit the nail on the head there mate. How people are is how the game is, not vice versa.

Also, i think you have to take into account the fact that taking a lvl50 on a TG raid takes a lot of time for potentially no reward, so i think its understandable that some will basically roll for the money if they cant get the drop they were after.

At which point they need to ask themselves why they went on the raid in the first place. I said earlier about the chance of the drop you want actually dropping, and the consquences one way or the other.

 

[kathal_tdd]

Originally posted by svartmetall
I just think paying money to be powerlevelled is pretty much on a par with buying your char on Ebay...you end up with a lvl 50 you have no clue how to play. Utterly lame...people who can't even be bothered to play their character, just want to be lvl50...

I made chars that could step in if the grp need a char. If the grp needed a Skald, SM or a healer I could step in(Mainly guild hunts/RvR). That’s why I PLed.
But again its ppl's own choice.
Btw I learned more about my chars in one week of RvR than one year of PvE.

 

[Lumikki]

Svart has a valid point, as usual. Lottoing something for the sole purpose of selling it is just wrong in my opinion.

xx

 

[AbPoon]

Do i think selling items is fair?

Well if your guild goes on a tg raid and you win an item imo you shouldnt sell it, if not everyone in your guild who went on the raid got something that its not fair for you to sell you should keep it inguild.

In my guild items in got by non guild raids etc and the item is sold guild members always get 1st call on it and get offered it cheap, as they way it should be within a guild.

If theres no buyers then it can be put up for auction, but then my guild is less cut throat between members then alot of guilds so its each to their own.

So in my eyes it depends how you get it.

 

[Weeping Willow]

Imo lets make some new system (I saw this in Albion) if "your" drop doesn't drop skip the lotto and get +10 next raid.

 

[Urme the Legend]

Yes it sucks that people vote for a drop with the intention of selling it, when there is 10 other people lottoing for it because they might need that drop to complete their SC template. And can't afford to buy it.

That's why almost all lotto rules are the way that you can only vote for a drop that your character can use.

But you can't do anything about it if a guy sells that Uber Sword he won in the lotto 10min ago for 10p. Atleast he is happy for the 10p and the guy that didn't win is happy because he got it after all. But the guy that lost in the lotto and couldn't afford the sword for 10p is unhappy, you can't please everyone.

Those three guys lottoed that sword on the same rules, but with different intentions. One needed money and two needed the sword. One got the money, one got the sword and one is going to the next TG raid.

What's wrong with a bit of idealism? Hell, if we can't even be altruistic in a GAME, we're pretty much fucked in real life, aren't we? "Sure, I'll help you across the road, frail old lady...that'll be £10 please."

Would be better to compare, when you sell your old DVD player when you just won a new one. Don't think skalds takes 10g from you if he is going to malmo and you want a lift.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by aginamist
Imo lets make some new system (I saw this in Albion) if "your" drop doesn't drop skip the lotto and get +10 next raid.

Sounds more fair...and ONLY people who can use the item get to roll for it.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by Urme the Legend

But you can't do anything about it if a guy sells that Uber Sword he won in the lotto 10min ago for 10p. Atleast he is happy for the 10p and the guy that didn't win is happy because he got it after all. But the guy that lost in the lotto and couldn't afford the sword for 10p is unhappy, you can't please everyone.

My point was that the guy shouldn't have had to pay for the sword at all...you shouldn't be allowed to lotto for drops if you just want to sell them.
You lotto for stuff to use, nothing more. You want cash for a house/SC suit/whatever, go farm off mobs, don't rip off your realm mates.

 

[AbPoon]

But i will say that /as is like fucking bargin hunt atm and its pissing me off

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by AbPoon
But i will say that /as is like fucking bargin hunt atm and its pissing me off

Hell yeah...

"WTS..."
"WTS.."
"WTS..."
"WTS..."
"WTS..."
"WTB..."
"WTS..."
"oh I think we just lost all our keeps"
"WTS..."
"WTB..."
"WTS..."
"WTS..."

 

[noaim]

Just ban people who lotto to sell imo.

But dont forget that lot of the items being sold comes from small raids where everyone agreed to sell and stuff like that, not every item is from public raids where someone lottoed jsut to sell.

 

[rg-zorena]

Originally posted by aginamist
Imo lets make some new system (I saw this in Albion) if "your" drop doesn't drop skip the lotto and get +10 next raid.

This would be the only way i would go on a tg raid sence i only want items to my healer.

 

[Urme the Legend]

Originally posted by svartmetall
My point was that the guy shouldn't have had to pay for the sword at all...you shouldn't be allowed to lotto for drops if you just want to sell them.
You lotto for stuff to use, nothing more. You want cash for a house/SC suit/whatever, go farm off mobs, don't rip off your realm mates.

Yes, I understand you.. but you will always see items being sold. Even if the dude used it for 2-3 months and later got a new better item... he won't just give it away to a "stranger".. he either give it away / sell it cheap to a close friend.. or sell it on BW.

I usually don't attend Dragon Raids anymore.. because I don't need a full respecc or RA respecc stone.. and I know people will get pissed off if I sold it the next day. Instead I don't attend on Dragon Raids.. and usually not TG raids.. takes too long.. and I can check BW the next day if the item I wanted is being sold

And I would be pissed off if I lost the lotto and saw the guy that won selling the item 10min later.. it's a normal reaction ... but after all it's just fair.. he was on that raid as long time as me.. he wanted that item because he know that people will pay for it, maybe he needed another item that was being sold but didn't have the cash for it etc. (Yes you can farm in DF, usually takes longer time and is boring as hell.)

P.S Poon our /as is just fine

 

[gutrot]

Originally posted by svartmetall
My point was that the guy shouldn't have had to pay for the sword at all...you shouldn't be allowed to lotto for drops if you just want to sell them.
You lotto for stuff to use, nothing more. You want cash for a house/SC suit/whatever, go farm off mobs, don't rip off your realm mates.

well, good luck m8, you're fighting the good fight

oh and you are right, theres nothing wrong with idealism, just dont expect to achieve it

ps, thanks for the tip about the old ladies, i work right next to a busy road, gonna make a fortune in my lunch break

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by svartmetall
... didn't really need it, so gave it to a Savage I walked past in Aegir, made their night.

Nobody does anything for nothing.

Even if you give stuff away, you are getting some personal satisfaction out of it.

 

[svartmetall]

Re: Re: OK, this whole 'selling drops for cash' thing has got way out of hand

Originally posted by kaod
Nobody does anything for nothing.

Even if you give stuff away, you are getting some personal satisfaction out of it.

Bah, work with me here, you know what I mean

 

[Driwen]

what if someone lotto'ed for a TG sword got it and then got offered 15 plat for it? Maybe the person can use the 15 plat more than the sword, so he decides to sell?

Most of the people who are selling on public raids, could have used the drop themself. However they decided to get money for it as they needed the money more. So even if you stop people paying for it, you wont decrease the amount of people rolling for the items .

 

[kaod]

Re: Re: Re: OK, this whole 'selling drops for cash' thing has got way out of hand

Originally posted by svartmetall
Bah, work with me here, you know what I mean

I just feel that creating an in-game market/economy adds something to the game.

I don't mind if people want to give items away to lower levels, thats a really nice thing to do, I don't mind either if people sell stuff for others to buy either.

Not everyone has the kind of life where they can attend TG or DR raids, but they can play when there are no raids, farm the cash in their own time and buy the item.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by driwen
what if someone lotto'ed for a TG sword got it and then got offered 15 plat for it?

That's entirely different...he lotto'd for an item he needed, after which it's up to him. He didn't lotto for it with the INTENTION only of selling it.
I would suggest that someone who can offer 15 Plat - a HUGE sum to most players - for one drop has more money than sense.