Off-topic Mafia #9 Game Thread

[Iceforge]

Oh, by the way!
"Vote: No Vote" means nothing

It is either: "Vote: No Lynch" (to switch to No Lynch) or "unvote" (to switch back to not voted)

Can't remember who did it, do remember person changed his vote later so it didn't matter, but just for the future...

 

[old.Tohtori]

I made a long winded post to ensure i take into consideration all points, as it seems without, i'm ignoring things

Toht, I would urge you to vote Levin instead he looks more guilty than golena right now, but in the intrest of saving my own hide for now:

I'm not counting out Levin, and even at the risk of sounding like an accoplish to you, i again have to agree that there is some guilty wibes coming from there.

At the moment though, noone has done anything to top them on the naughty/nice list like Golena.

 

[Levin]

Yes not the same, those 14 minutes make such a difference! QUOTE]

Ch3tan do you really not see the difference? I thought you would by now. I'll try to explain it again then. The difference is more than a mere "14 minutes".

In order this is what happened:

Golena had 2 votes prior.
I vote for Golena making it 3.
Morphius votes for Golena making it 4.
Ch3tan unvotes Golena.
Morphius says "I was thinking of doing the same (i.e. unvoting Golena)
I say the same thing as Morphius said.
I read things again and realize that what Morphius said makes no sense, since nothing had changed since he cast his vote. I vote on him.

The difference is that since my vote, something had changed! Votes on Golena had gone up from 3 to four, and one more would make him hang. In Morphius's case, nothing had happened, and yet he claims that he was going to remove his vote. If you don't see the significant difference there, I don't know how to convince you. All in all, it very much feels like you fail to see logic and are defending Morphius's because you and him are mafia. It's probably not true, but it bloody well seems that way right now.

You can go on about your 14 minutes, but in this case they do make the whole difference. I hardly think it took Morphius 14 minutes to make his post. He KNEW he was casting the 4th vote on Golena.

With all that said, it's clear that we're all desperate to find something to go on at day one. I am willing to jump on Morphius for what I think was a very odd statement, others are willing to jump Golena for theorizing in a way they don't agree with, and some suspect me because I jump Morphius. To my eyes, all of this right now looks like Morphius and Ch3tan are the guilty ones. I know there's a very slim chance i'm right, but at least it feels like something to go on and that's all we have on day one.

By the way, I am still a proponent of having a lynch. It's true that we now have a bigger chance with a useful cop because there's no godfather, so i'm not quite as sure as i've been in other games, though.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Levin, the Morphius saying "i was thinking of same" was because he too noticed that one more vote could kill Golena.

That, is the same thing. Even if Morphius put the 4th vote, making it a hazard, doesn't mean that he can't notice something after.

 

[Golena]

First off Toht's post really is confusing me. Again it's vague and confusing, and his sudden ability to forget how to use the quote button makes it hard for me to see what he's actually saying.
He said it was early in the morning so i'll assume that that was the reason although it's certainly a good post at blaming me while being as difficult to actually read and counter as possible.

He's blaming me for trying to hang people on flimsy evidence. I've tried to explain all my hangings with at least some reasoning. The reason for that is that I learn information by them trying to counter my lynch vote.

You say the cop shouldn't come out until they have a mafia name. I've made good reasonings why they should come out anyway before it's a 50/50 vote, since once it's 50/50 the cop coming out basically does nothing imo. You've failed to argue any real logic against that, just pointed out that obviously I want the cop to come out. Knowing innocents is just as useful as knowing guilty members, as you yourself proved last game!

I'd argue more against your post but I need to head to work and I really am finding it a very difficult post to read quickly, which is what worries me about it.

My vote stays on Ch3tan however. I would of swiched to Toht but the tactic of urging people to vote for Levin while voting for me seems just wrong for a townie. Discussing game mechanics doesn't make me magically innocent but at least i've pulled up some arguments today and found out plenty of information based on it. Hopefully people can use it later in the game if I get wrongly lynched today if nothing else.

Toht, I would urge you to vote Levin instead he looks more guilty than golena right now, but in the intrest of saving my own hide for now:

Gathering information is far more important than saving their own hide for a townie. That means either your a doc/cop, mafia or your not a particularly useful townie to have about (I'll assume this isn't the case for now however). I've got a 50/50 chance therefore that your a mafia and if your not you've got a get out of jail free card by telling us which of the 2 you are. I'm happy to be voted off as long as I get information from it, the doc/cop are both going to survive the night, and I think i've lasted long enough to get information from the rest of the town.

If i'm not back before I go splat, good luck to the rest of the town.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And really, Levin, can't you see why Golena seems like the most definitive candidate for mafia while others only have reasons that are simply flimsy at best?

Voting order, taking back ovtes, saying "oh i would've done that too" etc. All things that Golena himself said "shouldn't be used for a quicklynch".

Yet, Golena himself votes on that same basis.

I'm starting to think that if a smart player like you doesn't see this, ch3tan is deffo right so for now Unvote:golena because honestly i'm starting to think that Levin might be the best candidate afterall.

 

[old.Tohtori]

First off Toht's post really is confusing me. Again it's vague and confusing, and his sudden ability to forget how to use the quote button makes it hard for me to see what he's actually saying.
He said it was early in the morning so i'll assume that that was the reason although it's certainly a good post at blaming me while being as difficult to actually read and counter as possible

Again with the same thing. Stop playing the confused card as it's getting old. There's nothing confusing and surely "" marks work for you. Read it again with thought if have to.

And i'm not forgetting, it's just easier, aLOT easier, then to pick out everything and quote everything. Also saves space. All were direct quotes from you.

Early morning was only an "excuse" for the wrong name there(aka fl3a).

It might be hard to counter, as there's nothing to counter. I post facts there, simple and true.

He's blaming me for trying to hang people on flimsy evidence. I've tried to explain all my hangings with at least some reasoning. The reason for that is that I learn information by them trying to counter my lynch vote.

If there was any information, then it would make sense, and you bloody well can't vote for yourself. But the reasons are as flimsy as you yourself wanted people NOT to hang by.

You say the cop shouldn't come out until they have a mafia name. I've made good reasonings why they should come out anyway before it's a 50/50 vote, since once it's 50/50 the cop coming out basically does nothing imo. You've failed to argue any real logic against that, just pointed out that obviously I want the cop to come out. Knowing innocents is just as useful as knowing guilty members, as you yourself proved last game!

Again, i did argue the logic, i posted reasons, i posted mafia side of things for it, i posted counter arguments on you wanting to out the cop, posted valid reasons why it amkes you seem like mafia. Convinient ignoring of post there.

I'd argue more against your post but I need to head to work and I really am finding it a very difficult post to read quickly, which is what worries me about it.

My vote stays on Ch3tan however. I would of swiched to Toht but the tactic of urging people to vote for Levin while voting for me seems just wrong for a townie. Discussing game mechanics doesn't make me magically innocent but at least i've pulled up some arguments today and found out plenty of information based on it. Hopefully people can use it later in the game if I get wrongly lynched today if nothing else.

Yes, it's not supposed to be read quickly, it's supposed to have information and not flimsy "he bad!" shouts. that's how i play when i don't try out a tactic. I observe, watch, post what i see as facts and try to work out things objectively.

And the last aprt, nice way to say "tohto is mafia" without saying anything. Covering all bases again it seems.

Vote: Golena

Now it's no longer a case of Levin showing he's innocent, now it's a case of Levin f*cking up more then Golena.

 

[Olgaline]

Toht dont you mean switch fl3a for ch3tan ? otherwise it's dont vote for morph and morph,

and why the double vote on golena ?
not even you get two votes

 

[Levin]

Tohtori, you seem to vote on people because you don't agree with their theories. Is that a true assessment? I vote on people who I think are behaving strangely, no matter what their theory is.

It's true that Morphius might have realized afterwards (even though there wasn't much time in between his vote and his statement) that he had cast a dangerous vote, but his way of defending himself against my accusation did not include that possibility - he simply said that I (Levin) had said the same thing. Neither he nor Ch3tan seemed to acknowledge that there IS a difference pulling your vote after someone else votes after , and pulling your vote because of... nothing.

But.. since I suspect Ch3tan at least as much as Morphius now, and he has more votes anyway, it seems more logical to switch my vote to him.

Unvote: Morphius

Vote: Ch3tan

 

[Levin]

Toht dont you mean switch fl3a for ch3tan ? otherwise it's dont vote for morph and morph,

and why the double vote on golena ?
not even you get two votes

didn't he unvote first and then vote back?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Toht dont you mean switch fl3a for ch3tan ? otherwise it's dont vote for morph and morph,

and why the double vote on golena ?
not even you get two votes

I mean that it's the pair of ch3tan and morphius I'm confused on how that went myself

I unvoted golena on previous post to see Levins answer, then ovted back to golena because of his last post.

Tohtori, you seem to vote on people because you don't agree with their theories. Is that a true assessment? I vote on people who I think are behaving strangely, no matter what their theory is.

It's true that Morphius might have realized afterwards (even though there wasn't much time in between his vote and his statement) that he had cast a dangerous vote, but his way of defending himself against my accusation did not include that possibility - he simply said that I (Levin) had said the same thing. Neither he nor Ch3tan seemed to acknowledge that there IS a difference pulling your vote after someone else votes after , and pulling your vote because of... nothing.

It's not a true assessment. I vote on people based on observations an behavioral theories aswell. I don't do "ooh he pulled vote" sole reason votes.

Based on your reason to vote on ch3tan or Morphius, you should vote for yourself too. Pulling votes doesn't need THAT much reasoning, as you yourself have bounced between votes like a frantic monkey(no offense just a picture to show point).

You not concerning your efforts towards my suspicions is also becoming, increasingly suspicious. You seem to do the same thing as golena, avoiding all issues and voting on behavior you discourage yourself. Also seems like defending Golena, without reasonable defense, alot.

s such, i have the only option to go with what i see, my gut and what i believe is the reasonable voting reason and stay with Golena.

 

[Olgaline]

Unvote: Ch3tan

most likely re voting for ch3tan when i get home from work, but I want to have the option of changing my vote, cant do that while I'm away

 

[old.Tohtori]

The bigggest reason for voting Golena, if you're bored of reading my long psots, is that on day one:

It's also worth considering the no-lynch vote slightly more carefully with more townies maybe since the cop will have information before we come down to a 50/50 situation?

i tend to agree with the no lynch this time. and as i am going inactive until tuesday evening i am going to vote as such, until i get back and read the shitload of pages that will have showed up by that time.

my god a town were logic is not frowned upon!

vote no lynch

Suspicious no-lynch vote by Fl3a.

He's heading up my list of suspects so far however.

Ch3tan joins him on my list after posting while I was writing.

And the contradictions just kept piling up after that.

 

[Levin]

Tohtori, I think Golena's point was that while a no-lynch might be more okay in this nine-player scenario, it is still important to not just get the no-vote done on day one without getting any information. So, he probably thought that Ch3tan's and whoever else it was early no-vote votes were strange. I don't agree with Golena's theory there, but I can see how he thought and I don't find it strange per se.

I guess that's why I, no matter how much i'd like to, can't join in on the crusade against Golena just yet. And that is also why I had to look at other people, and why Morphius stuck out to me. I never reacted to pulling votes. I reacted to what I thought was a strange comment. Clearly other people don't agree, so in pushing my line there I'll just make a bunch of enemies - hance I took my vote off of Morphius. I don't want to get lynched again just because people think i'm strange. I can say one thing though, if I was mafia and Golena was my buddy, I would have kept my mouth shut and my head down.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Tohtori, I think Golena's point was that while a no-lynch might be more okay in this nine-player scenario, it is still important to not just get the no-vote done on day one without getting any information. So, he probably thought that Ch3tan's and whoever else it was early no-vote votes were strange. I don't agree with Golena's theory there, but I can see how he thought and I don't find it strange per se.

It wasn't just that, it was the added things said after that, that made me more and more suspicious. But, as golena hasn't had time to read my "not fast readable post", i can't comment on him not defending himself at all...even if it seems he's persistent to not comment and keeps on playing the "confused" card alot.

And also, i do believe he was advocating(first) a no lynch, even if by insinuating it, and then voting simply 'cause people voted no lynch.

I guess that's why I, no matter how much i'd like to, can't join in on the crusade against Golena just yet. And that is also why I had to look at other people, and why Morphius stuck out to me. I never reacted to pulling votes. I reacted to what I thought was a strange comment. Clearly other people don't agree, so in pushing my line there I'll just make a bunch of enemies - hance I took my vote off of Morphius. I don't want to get lynched again just because people think i'm strange. I can say one thing though, if I was mafia and Golena was my buddy, I would have kept my mouth shut and my head down.

It's no crusade, i want to clear that up, there's no "must hang golena", but with no other good reasons to vote for others except some light strangeness(which i've portrayed whole game by being non-aggressive really), and golena refusing to comment on his inconsistent and non-logical comments(town perspective in mind), i have no other choice to go as i believe we should hang as it's the better option of the two(as i've stated before).

The reason i'm not voting for you is just that, i don't think you'd act this way(unless intentional) if you were golenas buddy.

 

[fl3a]

came home a bit earlier than planned, and have read all the posts now.

i would blame ch3tan and golena of being mafia buddies, if only they werent voting for each other. but as ch3tan said he was 'voting to save his own skin' while actively blaming levin.
golena however has been the more inconsistent of the pair, with his aggressive opening plays against me & ch3tan, missing statements by people as to make posts sound like they are all against him and then arguing against them, and covering all the bases like a lying politician.

i find it pretty weird how so many people are willing to jump on levin for pointing out a pretty damn good argument, morphius putting the 4th vote, and then saying he was thinking of unvoting as to give the person a chance to save themselves. it just doesnt make sense. the difference between levin thinking of unvoting and morphius saying he thought he would unvote is that when morphius voted he knew he was making it 4. split personality or what? of course there is always the chance that he could have missed that there was 4 votes.
but that brings me back to the start of my post: golena and ch3tan as mafia buddies. who unvoted golena when he had 4 votes as to 'hear from everyone'? it was ch3tan. the reluctance to vote out golena is really what stands out as strange about him. but right now i am going to vote: golena. and if we find out which side golena is on, we will have information about ch3tan

 

[fl3a]

fucking hell i pressed some button and it went to 'post quick reply'. anyway the sentence was supposed to be: and if we find out which side golena is on, we will have some information about ch3tan and will be wiser again in the morning.
i voted golena because we arent going to have a no lynch, and because he is the prime target right now.

 

[Morphius]

Just to come in with some info here, I havn't followed any of the other "Off-topic Mafia" threads and this actually my first crack at it. I had a read on the "Wiki" page to find about the rules and it seemed fun, so thus I signed up.

What I believed to be the case was that a day was actually just a day, i.e set times to times on one day. Obviously I now understand this to not be the case. On day 1, I though that Golena did start suspiciously, first he claimed seemed to be plugging for a No Lynch, and then was shouting witch at the first person to vote for it. There seemed to be a self-contradiction there which to me implied that he was possibly establishing a false cover-story. Ofcourse, with so little time, I thought we had in the game I placed my fourth vote in the attempt to provoke a hasty defence from Golena realising that he would merely be one vote away from the chop.

My reasoning for un-voting? It didn't seem right to condemn someone after so little time, but I have decided to stick with my vote after the debate which has occurred from his defence. There was line however which really struck suspicious to me, going to have to paraphrase here, cant be bothered to find it but it was something similair to "How would I know how the mafia work, i've never been one." This to me just condemned him, it's the kind of thing you expect someone to say when they're guilty but trying to wriggle their way out of something.

 

[Levin]

So if I counted right, we now have 4 votes for Golena and 2 votes for Ch3tan?

 

[Levin]

By the way, we have all completely forgotten Rubric. Just so you know. He hasn't posted one single post in this thread.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah you counted right Levin.

 

[Levin]

I'm kind of half-tempted to vote for Rubric just because. No townie should use a "I wont say a word" tactic in my opinion. Then again, maybe he has a viable reason. Does anyone know if he's away or something?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Mod: prod rubric

There

 

[kirennia]

Just for clarification sake, I presume we're not going for the whole no lynch tactic today then? As I said before, it seems silly for us to pull in different directions so I'll start voting again in just a bit if that's the general consencus(sp?).

I would just like to clarify that if we hang an innocent today, we're in the same situation we would be with the no lynch on day 3 except we'd have 3 innocents found or a combination of innocents/mafia. I'm still not so sure lynching on hunches is a good way to do this in the first 9 player game we've had without a godfather (correct me if I'm wrong). That's why I've been pushing for it so much...there is no way for the mafia to hide from the cop in this game and it's a long one (without a lucky roleblock or kill anyway).

 

[Levin]

Just for clarification sake, I presume we're not going for the whole no lynch tactic today then? As I said before, it seems silly for us to pull in different directions so I'll start voting again in just a bit if that's the general consencus(sp?).

I would just like to clarify that if we hang an innocent today, we're in the same situation we would be with the no lynch on day 3 except we'd have 3 innocents found or a combination of innocents/mafia. I'm still not so sure lynching on hunches is a good way to do this in the first 9 player game we've had without a godfather (correct me if I'm wrong). That's why I've been pushing for it so much...there is no way for the mafia to hide from the cop in this game and it's a long one (without a lucky roleblock or kill anyway).

True about the godfather, but I still don't think we should lay all our eggs in the cop basket. If the cop dies during night, we have lost a bunch of villagers for nothing. At least with the lynch way we get lots of information in the meantime. So yes, if you want a vote for or against lynching, i am voting FOR.

 

[Iceforge]

Vote Count
Day 1

Golena - 4 - (Morphius, Fl3a, Old.Tohtori, Ch3tan)
Ch3tan - 2 - (Levin, Golena)

Not Voted: 3 (Rubric, Olgaline, Kirennia)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Mod: prod rubric

Done

 

[kirennia]

True about the godfather, but I still don't think we should lay all our eggs in the cop basket. If the cop dies during night, we have lost a bunch of villagers for nothing. At least with the lynch way we get lots of information in the meantime. So yes, if you want a vote for or against lynching, i am voting FOR.

There is a 2/7 chance of the cop dying during those two nights which would leave us with 3/7 remaining people proven innocent... a pretty good shot at winning in other words.

Even if the cop did die during those nights, we'd still only lose 1 or 2 villagers which is the same or less then we'll lose if we make a wrong decision here today.

As for information, this has gone on for a long while gaining loads of information and tbh, even peoples actions/talk of what to do about this no lynch is getting me wondering...

I'm not convinced of either ch3tan or golena at the moment...

 

[Levin]

Right now it feels like those of us who haven't voted for Golena are in a bit of a tight spot. Some time has gone by and you could assume that all of us are aware of the situation. If he hangs and is guilty, we will be pointed out as potential mafia. If he is innocent, as I imagine those of us who haven't voted on him must think, then should we vote against our conviction, and even risk being the one who places the 5th "death vote" on an innocent guy?

I do want a lynch.. and this would be a good chance to get it. But in this case it feels like we really might be lynching the wrong guy. Damn it.. I'm going to have to think a bit more. The 5th vote is always the hardest to make, I guess, as you're putting yourself on the line. You'll either be a hero (small chance) or a villain (bigger chance).

 

[old.Tohtori]

Right now it feels like those of us who haven't voted for Golena are in a bit of a tight spot. Some time has gone by and you could assume that all of us are aware of the situation. If he hangs and is guilty, we will be pointed out as potential mafia. If he is innocent, as I imagine those of us who haven't voted on him must think, then should we vote against our conviction, and even risk being the one who places the 5th "death vote" on an innocent guy?

I do want a lynch.. and this would be a good chance to get it. But in this case it feels like we really might be lynching the wrong guy. Damn it.. I'm going to have to think a bit more. The 5th vote is always the hardest to make, I guess, as you're putting yourself on the line. You'll either be a hero (small chance) or a villain (bigger chance).

Honestly, your voting the last vote, no matter the outcome makes you LESS guilty then this post.

Remember what i said about covering bases? This is just one a prime example.

You're basically setting it up as a "tremendous task and worry", when it's only the first hanging. You can see how that makes you look?

Unvote: Golena

Need clarification here.

 

[Levin]

Honestly, your voting the last vote, no matter the outcome makes you LESS guilty then this post.

Remember what i said about covering bases? This is just one a prime example.

You're basically setting it up as a "tremendous task and worry", when it's only the first hanging. You can see how that makes you look?

Unvote: Golena

Need clarification here.

I don't really care how it makes me look Tohtori.

But still.

Can you honestly blame people for trying to cover their bases in this game? Can you deny the things I said about being in a tight spot? Are they untrue? I am pretty sure you've said similar things yourself in the past, by the way. Some of the things you accuse people of and call them mafia for, I see as perfectly natural behaviour that townies do. I think i've been a townie enough times to know what it feels like. Everyone are not as intricate in their behaviour as you might think we are.

I say what I think, and I don't try to second guess what you or others will think of me for it. Because if i worried about that I would probably end up not posting at all, and then i might as well not play these games in the first place.

I am honestly not all that concerned if you now intend to suddenly turn everyone against me and get me voted off this time. I reckon each time it happens and I show up innocent, the more it will drive home my point that "covering bases" and such things are not typical mafia behaviour. It's typical behaviour for anyone in this game!

In the end, it comes down to that you think one guy is guilty and have voted for him. I think another guy is guilty and have voted for him, perhaps partly because he was cheeky enough to try and make others vote for me, so I see him as dangerous. Pretty much basic caveman tactics.

And then, because I am open with how I feel about switching votes again, as per my last post, you suspect me for being mafia? I don't know if you are just trying to scare me, or if you really think I am mafia. Either way, do as you please. I reckon after this post you probably think i'm 50/50 likely to be mafia, right? And the funny thing is I don't really care.