Off-topic Mafia #9 Game Thread

[kirennia]

No lynch is an interesting one as it can potentially win or lose a game straight off. Knowing that there is a cop out there, giving them a day or two to find out who is part of the mafia is brilliant in an ideal world. There of course comes the problems of ...what if they're killed, then the whole plan falls apart. If they're roleblocked, it fails and if they only find two townies, well it's a great step to uncovering the mafia but still nothing is certain.

I'm undecided but don't think a no lynch is the way to go here...

 

[Iceforge]

Vote Count
Day 1

Ch3tan - 1 - (Golena)
Golena - 2 - (Old.Tohtori, Ch3tan)

No Lynch: 1 (Fl3a)
Not Voted: 5 (Morphius, Rubric, Levin, Olgaline, Kirennia)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

 

[Levin]

Interesting. Saying in one post that we should try to avoid a quick lynch, but also to give people the chance to speak up if they get the lynchvotes. Kinda contradictive, covering all bases incase anything happens.

Tohtori, I see the points you have for a Golena vote, and they do add up. But this point i didn't understand. I realize you say in that post that this is not the main argument, but still, would you explain this one?

I don't see it as contradictive to advocate against a quick lynch and also giving people to speak up before they're lynched? Where is the contradiction? It's sounds more like two things of saying almost the same thing to me?

Again, i'm not attacking your other arguments, just wondering about this one.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Tohtori, I see the points you have for a Golena vote, and they do add up. But this point i didn't understand. I realize you say in that post that this is not the main argument, but still, would you explain this one?

I don't see it as contradictive to advocate against a quick lynch and also giving people to speak up before they're lynched? Where is the contradiction? It's sounds more like two things of saying almost the same thing to me?

Again, i'm not attacking your other arguments, just wondering about this one.

The contradiction i guess was a wrong way to say it, to me the "problem" comes from saying "we shouldn't lynch people", (even if we should by his other points), and to wait until people get the chance to say their piece.

Just when added to the other points, it seems like a perfect way to cover a base incase he gets "near 5 votes".

 

[Levin]

Hmm, right. I don't quite agree on that point, but the others are still valid I suppose. For lack of better options:

Vote: Golena

 

[Morphius]

hmmm... It's better than a No Lynch I suppose

Vote: Golena

 

[Iceforge]

Vote Count
Day 1

Golena - 4 - (Morphius, Levin, Old.Tohtori, Ch3tan)
Ch3tan - 1 - (Golena)

No Lynch: 1 (Fl3a)
Not Voted: 3 (Rubric, Olgaline, Kirennia)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

 

[Olgaline]

Why do I feel a sence of damned if I do and Damned if I dont atm.

I Suspec he's Innocent "Golena" so If I kill Him off you know whats comming ...
Yet If I dont, and He turns up guilty it's the why didnt you vote inquisition train......

So I'm sticking with my gut that He's Innocent!
I dont support a no lynch so thats not really an option either,
so for now I'll stick with my No vote.

 

[Ch3tan]

Just to be awkward, and hear from everyone.

unvote Golena

 

[Morphius]

was tempted to do the same myself haha!

 

[old.Tohtori]

May sound rude, but i've said my piece, i'm waiting for Golena to somehow rationalize these concerns, if not, i'm sticking to the vote, may or may not make me seem guilty.

 

[Levin]

Well i'm glad someone unvoted, as I was thinking of doing the same! Now we can listen to what he has to say before someone jumps in with rope.

 

[Levin]

was tempted to do the same myself haha!

Okay THIS is suspicious! As you were the last one to vote making it four votes, why would you unvote right after? Based on what? That makes no sense at all, other than as an attempt to seem innocent.

Unvote: Golena

Vote: Morphius

 

[Ch3tan]

I have no problem killing off Golena, guilty or not. Players with flawed logic such as his are a danger if innocent as they will hide the real bad guys.

However, I feel very uncomfortable with 3 people who have not yet voted.

 

[Morphius]

Well i'm glad someone unvoted, as I was thinking of doing the same! Now we can listen to what he has to say before someone jumps in with rope.

What you have just done seems more suspicious to me, you criticise me for saying that I am going to unvote yet in another sentence just before you said you wanted to do the same? mmmm

 

[Ch3tan]

You changed your vote within 48 minutes of placing the original, you were the last to vote for him, what Levin says makes sense. Levin had 14 minutes on you.

 

[Golena]

Ok since I've just got back, and apparently just missed being voted off lets try and clear some of my arguments up. Congratulations Toht on spreading suspition on me, almost worked.

Interesting. Saying in one post that we should try to avoid a quick lynch, but also to give people the chance to speak up if they get the lynchvotes.

I'm not sure what your saying here. Can you read it again and confirm if you meant quick no-lynch? I based my comments about giving people the chance to speak before lynching based on what happened last game, where Levin came out as the cop just after the 4th vote. It would be more beneficial if there is a cop not to lynch him by accident on day 1 again, and the cop being forced to come out is still a stronger position for the town than being lynched without a chance.

But more i'm interested in you assuming the mafia block/kill at the same time when often that's not the case. Mafia tend to block one person they believe to be doctor/cop, and kill anbother, this is a twoshot thing as they get more info too.

I've never been a mafia member so I guess i'll trust your experience about what they do. I was trying to work out the odds of a doc save given the 2 options in my head last night, but couldn't quite work it out. I'll have a think about it some more and see if stats back me up tho.

Again, interesting as such. Basing "evil" on voting for nolynch when just on previous post you said "we should consider no lynch very carefully as there's this and that reason for it".

There's a difference between considering a no-lynch and doing it straight off. I've never been a fan of simply no-lynching without learning anything, it's really not good for the town. The chances of hitting a mafia in a 7 player game seem to be next to none, we've never done it yet. In a 9 player game it's going to be even more likely that we hit one, so a no lynch might make more sense. 5 people simply yelling no-lynch on the first 5 posts is pointless tho!

So you support a no lynch, yet you vote people for giving a no lynch? As did with ch3tan and threw suspicion towards fl3a:

It's the first day, if you don't stir up some suspicion then you don't learn anything. I found a reason to vote for someone, it wasn't much but it was all I had, in the same way you voted for me.. It got things moving and we've all learned something hopefully from watching the votes, so job done!

That's just silly, saying the town is better off with less people in it when with only 5, wrong vote gets your town killed. You're only better off with 5 then 6, if you hang a mafia on day one.

And if there's 6, and you hang an innocent, mafia kills one and you're left with 2vs2, it's not necessarily over then. With 5, you hang innocent and mafia kills and it's over straight up.

How many does it take to lynch with 4 people left in the game. If it's 3 people then yes your point makes sense. I assumed it would be 2 people required to lynch which means 2v2 the mafia would auto win. Feel free to correct me here tho.

And here we come to the last parts, saying things as "ooh shouldn't trust me", more cover and also doubting everything you yourself said, insace things go wrong. Just more deviant cover-up and securing that no matter what happens, you have the "i said so" right.

Too much, too fast, vote:golena

Again I said we should consider a no lynch as an option. Not that I supported it. The important word there being consider.. If I said we should consider leaping off this cliff I wouldn't expect 3 people to hurl themselves off yelling, Golena said this was the best option. I'd expect people to provide arguments why a lynch or no-lynch made sense. Unfortunately no-one did that, they just started voting no-lynch with no real reasoning behind it. That makes them suspicious to me.. If they want to argue why they considered a no-lynch at that point in the game to be gathering information then fine. On day 1 information is what townies should be trying to gather. I just didn't see them attempting to do that, more just a case of, lets get the day over with because deciding on my night choice seems more interesting. If you can provide a good reason why a no-lych first up before any votes have been cast gathers any information at all, i'd really like to hear it. Or maybe they want other people to do the dirt digging so they can stay under the radar?

 

[Golena]

Vote Novote

My initial vote stirred up some information, so it's done it's job.

 

[Morphius]

[QUOTE, Golena] I've never been a mafia member so I guess i'll trust your experience about what they do [/QUOTE]

Vote Stays.

 

[Ch3tan]

Nice post, but I still cannot get past your first posts. However we still have 3 non contributors, in the intrest of keeping things moving we could vote for one of them?

 

[Olgaline]

I'm Abit confused golena, you made a ton off sence in the last game this game however, you seem either confused or misleading and definatly inconsistant you seem to be leaning towards a lynch while advocating a no-lynch...

Please tell me why a No lynch is a viable option with 9
because as i said in my previouse post #18 I dont see the benifit of a no lynch with 9 as a lynch doesnt hold the same "risk factor" it does in a 7 man game.

the way I see it "in a 9 man game" and lynch on day one is a viable "chance" yet without the iminant danger of a pending mafia win on the following lynch that is present in a 7 man game.

 

[kirennia]

vote:morphius

Simply because putting a vote on Golena when they look like he's going to be lynched then as soon as another voter pulls out, you say you were thinking of pulling out too within a timeframe of just 48 minutes...

 

[Levin]

What you have just done seems more suspicious to me, you criticise me for saying that I am going to unvote yet in another sentence just before you said you wanted to do the same? mmmm

Not the same at all! You voted after me which changed the situation. One more and Golena would hang. YOU casted the fourth vote. Nobody voted after you, but still you say you considered taking off the vote you had just cast? It makes no sense, friend, and you know it.

 

[Golena]

One thing though; I disagree with Golena about the doc. I think the doc may as well protect whoever he wants, doc himself included. If the mafia tries to kill someone and it doesn't work, they still won't know if that person is a doc or someone protected by the doc. Or am i missing something there?

I believe this was brought up by iceforge in one of his after game posts a while back?

If the doc protects someone other than himself and there's not a death over night, he's esentially found another innocent member of the town, much like the cop investigating someone.
If he protects himself, and there's no death he knows that he is innocent.

So one scenario the doc knows 2 innocent people, the other he knows only himself is innocent.

If you assume that there's an equal chance of the mafia to kill anyone, which there probably isn't because someone is going to be a more likely target after day 1 for a night kill, then it makes sense to protect someone other than yourself, especially since the mafia could roleblock the person that they were killing anyway.

I'm not sure what information the Mafia could get by not roleblocking the person they were attacking, maybe he could explain the scenario where the mafia would learn more?
It could be that he's mafia and wanting to try and ensure that the doc is going to protect himself tonight because he knows that he's going to roleblock his target ofc which would make sense. People do have a tendancy to be overly self protective in these games i've noticed, placing a greater prize on defending themselves rather than finding out more information.

 

[Ch3tan]

vote kirrenia

 

[Golena]

I'm Abit confused golena, you made a ton off sence in the last game this game however, you seem either confused or misleading and definatly inconsistant you seem to be leaning towards a lynch while advocating a no-lynch...

Please tell me why a No lynch is a viable option with 9
because as i said in my previouse post #18 I dont see the benifit of a no lynch with 9 as a lynch doesnt hold the same "risk factor" it does in a 7 man game.

the way I see it "in a 9 man game" and lynch on day one is a viable "chance" yet without the iminant danger of a pending mafia win on the following lynch that is present in a 7 man game.

I'm basing it on the fact that I assume that a 2v2 situation is a mafia win, meaning a no lynch in a 7 person game still means you HAVE to get the mafia first time on day 2 with no mistakes. Like I said, I might be wrong there which would make my argument nonsense, but I actually don't know.

The advantage of a no lynch in a 9 person game would be to give the cop more time. Now we've got to weight that up against the information we think a lynch gives. What gives more information, 5 people voting someone off or the cop getting an extra peek.
I'm trying to start a discussion about it, find out other peoples opinions, but the only things i've got so far is..
Golena wants a no lynch
Golena is trying to lynch
I want a no lynch (no arguments why)
Lynch person X!

I've given my reasons even if they are flawed about why I think a no lynch makes no sense in a 7 person game. In a 9 person game i'm not so sure, so I want someone to try and argue for and against so I have some more ideas to work with. Is that really that hard to understand?

 

[Levin]

vote:morphius

Simply because putting a vote on Golena when they look like he's going to be lynched then as soon as another voter pulls out, you say you were thinking of pulling out too within a timeframe of just 48 minutes...

I agree 100%.

 

[Levin]

If the doc protects someone other than himself and there's not a death over night, he's esentially found another innocent member of the town, much like the cop investigating someone.
If he protects himself, and there's no death he knows that he is innocent.

Good point. It's not a huge advantage, but all things being equal it does make sense.

 

[Levin]

vote kirrenia

Care to elaborate? You can't deny voting on Morphius makes sense after the thing he pulled?

 

[Golena]

Here's an example..

I think a no lynch is a good idea because the cop has less that a 1/7 chance of being voted off after the doc's protect.
There's a 2/9 chance that he'll find a member of the mafia.

That means there's more chance of the cop getting a sucesssful mafia target, than there is of him dying on day 1.

If we vote someone off then there's greater than a 1/9 chance that the cop will have to expose himself therefore losing his advantage because he can be simply roleblocked out of the game.
There's only a 2/8 chance of him finding a mafia member after that, and a 1/6 chance of him being voted off.

The chances of getting a mafia are tiny in a 9 person game, so the information gained by giving the cop an extra night is worth it.

So far everyone voting no lynch has given NO reasons why they are voting for it. I feel that the voting so far has given me at least some clues about who might be mafia.. The longer we go on almost hanging people the more a no lynch appeals to me, simply because we get the voting information but also give the cop an extra day.