"Nuclear Emergency"

[Tom]

Probably because people are more concerned about things that actually do kill people, instead of things that might kill people at some point in the future, but we won't know if the power station killed them because there's no statistical trend to demonstrate anything of the sort, but hey we'll continue to make nuclear power scarier than natural rock formations that people go hiking across which are far more radioactive...

 

[Scouse]

Ignoring the small number of deaths that even the WHO say are going to happen - did you read the article? It describes a very real danger you're wanging your head firmly in the sand about.

Also - you've not got a good track record with your own "assumptions" over nuclear:

What a load of fucking bollocks. The assumption that the Japanese would build a power station in a very geographically active location without the required safeguards is just stupid.

...or entirely predictable, no?

 

[Job]

Oh to be like the french...ze gas has dubelled in price jean pierre....np throw za nother rod in the pile

 

[Tom]

Ignoring the small number of deaths that even the WHO say are going to happen - did you read the article? It describes a very real danger you're wanging your head firmly in the sand about.

Also - you've not got a good track record with your own "assumptions" over nuclear:

...or entirely predictable, no?

And yet, how many people have died?

 

[Wij]

It's a start...

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21839684

 

[old.Tohtori]

Nice to see nobody has commented on the ongoing very serious problems at Fukushima.

Well;

"At this point, I don't think anything serious will occur immediately," he said.
"The important thing is to continue injecting water to the nuclear fuel in the reactors and continue cooling used fuel in the pool.
"Even if the water temperature goes up to 65 degrees Celsius, it would not cause anything critical right away, as long as the fuel bars are covered in water.
"If the water levels get lower to the point where the fuel bars are exposed to the air, then we would have to worry."

So nothing really to say.

 

[rynnor]

It's a start...

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21839684

If EDF actually build it - still uncertain.

 

[Scouse]

If EDF actually build it - still uncertain.

They want 40p/KwH minimum price guaranteed for the next 40 years and zero responsibility for nuclear waste disposal, decomissioning or cleanup.

That means much higher energy bills for us and an extending of the criminal use of public money to sit and twiddle our thumbs with a 100,000 year problem we've no solution to.

 

[leggy]

They want 40p/KwH minimum price guaranteed for the next 40 years and zero responsibility for nuclear waste disposal, decomissioning or cleanup.

That means much higher energy bills for us and an extending of the criminal use of public money to sit and twiddle our thumbs with a 100,000 year problem we've no solution to.

Privately supplied energy is expensive and that, unfortunately, will never cease to be the case. Ignoring the misinformed statement about zero responsibility: real innovative solutions (decentralised renewables, microgrids etc.) are decades away from providing an acceptable level of baseload to keep our pointless electrical gadgets running. I'm not even going to cover the fact that OFGEM regulation provides no real opportunity for energy companies to innovate, develop or test these products in the real world. There are a number of pricing mechanisms which provide some funding but this is probably still less than Apple's R&D budget. OFGEM are concerned with 1 thing: customers and their continuity of supply.

I'm not pro nuclear, I'm pro mix. And that mix (based on the daisy-chained choices ourGovernment has made since it's establishment) includes Nukes. If we don't build something now we'll have to deal with forced outages and that means no TV. Which in turn means that all the couch zombies will start robbing my shit. I like my shit and I don't want it robbed.

The Fukushima argument is tiring now (imo); it's a badly engineered, ancient power plant in the middle of a Seismically active area. Power Plant design (especially for Nukes) is pretty damn good now and presents no where near the risk that the Fukushima situation does.

Anyway - this planning approval at Hinkley is still not enough. If something won't make a private company profit then it doesn't get made. So it's high prices or nationalisation (ahem)

 

[Scouse]

ignoring the misinformed statement about zero responsibility

What's misinformed?

Spent 10 years at Powergen and EOn and the only thing that ever came out of it was that Paul Golby, in all his meetings with various prime ministers, said they'd never do it if they had to decomission or dispose.

That bill, for all energy firms, will be footed by the public. And since we have no actual method of disposal that bill is both undetermined and infinite in size.

 

[Scouse]

Look at these borrowing figures.


Somewhere between the figures for 2015/16 and 2016/17 is about as much as we've already spent on Nuclear Waste "Disposal" at Sellafield - with costs still spiralling and "no end in sight".

It's FUCKING EXPENSIVE this nuclear shit.

 

[leggy]

This is like a discussion with my missus. I say something and she gets insulted.

I agree that it's expensive and I'm definitely not for paying the full cost personally. 'Defense' and all the other so called perks we enjoy as a rich nation are also expensive (which we also pay for). I really don't see another realistic option in the short term though. I'm not opposed to forced outages personally as I don't really watch TV (unless you count 1 hr a week) but I suspect the rest of the nation might.

I doubt those were Golby's actual words and unless you were in the room with him I'd be inclined to take it with a pinch of salt. He's been gone for a long time now anyway and I don't know Tony Cocker's stance on it. And it's the company's prerogative to dictate terms; if it can't make them a profit then why would they do it? We only have wind farms because of the market value for Renewable Obligation Certificates and subsidies. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's the way it is.

We are a fundamentally greedy and irresponsible society when it comes to energy and it's this social decay which needs addressing in the long term.

 

[Scouse]

This is like a discussion with my missus. I say something and she gets insulted.

I'm not insulted - not at all m8.

We are a fundamentally greedy and irresponsible species and we could do with invasion by and the management of a benevolent alien race until we've evolved a bit

Fixed

 

[Ormorof]

as long as they bring anal probes im all for it

 

[rynnor]

Isnt the 40p a unit what we guarantee for renewables anyway? Our electricity bills are heading up regardless of Nuclear.

Though we have the waste issue we are also absorbing additional costs with renewables in terms of new and expensive links from the middle of nowhere to the grid and the costs of maintaining backup gas fired power stations for when its not windy/sunny etc.

The guaranteeed always on power from nuclear generation is even more important when you have unreliable renewables in the mix.

 

[rynnor]

Sellafield is being shut down as a precaution due to the bad weather.

 

[Raven]

Yeah, according the the BBC, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE

 

[rynnor]

Seems its just to let the staff get home in the bad snow - talk about non-story..

 

[Scouse]

Sellafield is being shut down as a precaution due to the bad weather.

What? Is the wind blowing too fast, requiring electricity generation to be shut down?

 

[Raven]

It's being put into a sleep state so that the staff can get home safely.

 

[Scouse]

It's being put into a sleep state so that the staff can get home safely.

I know. It doesn't produce power anyway - it "reprocesses".

And it doesn't do that effectively anyway. It just sits there regularly breaking emissions limits...

Funny tho. Because it's not a producer it's exempt from the nuclear stress tests post-fukushima. You know, where they check for protection against terrorist attacks, plane crashes, tsunami's, bad weather etc...

 

[Scouse]

So, 400 tonnes of water a day, no way of storing it without it leaking all over the place, no idea how to decomission the site and a government and company that are still doing their best to cover up the problems.

What do you do with 400 tonnes of water/day, other than illegally piss it into the sea, which in effect they are doing...

The quantities of water they are dealing with are absolutely gigantic," said Mycle Schneider, who has consulted widely for a variety of organisations and countries on nuclear issues. "What is worse is the water leakage everywhere else - not just from the tanks. It is leaking out from the basements, it is leaking out from the cracks all over the place. Nobody can measure that

"It is much worse than we have been led to believe, much worse," said Mr Schneider, who is lead author for the World Nuclear Industry status reports.

This is a HUGE clusterfuck of proportions we have not the evolutionary tools to correctly mentally grasp. The disaster hasn't stopped - it's continuing apace...

In a letter to the UN secretary general, Mitsuhei Murata says the official radiation figures published by Tepco cannot be trusted. He says he is extremely worried about the lack of a sense of crisis in Japan and abroad.

This view is shared by Mycle Schneider, who is calling for an international taskforce for Fukushima.
"The Japanese have a problem asking for help. It is a big mistake; they badly need it."

But I'm some sort of nut for pointing this out...

 

[Zarjazz]

This is a HUGE clusterfuck of proportions we have not the evolutionary tools to correctly mentally grasp. The disaster hasn't stopped - it's continuing apace...

But I'm some sort of nut for pointing this out...

Well not a nut, just misinformed Once you analyse the facts the main Fukushima incident didn't actually release that much radiation. No one has died from radiation poisoning, in fact no one has even become ill. Really fun but informative diagram that highlights just how paranoid everyone was about Fukushima and radiation in general - http://xkcd.com/radiation/

As for this water leak, the materials involved produce mainly beta particles. It's alpha & gamma radiation that you need to worry about and this leak has negligible amounts - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/0...aster_at_fukushima_oh_wait_its_nothing_again/

Chernobyl was a thousand times worse than Fukushima but you wouldn't know it from the main stream press. You'd think they were almost the same level of disaster.

 

[Shagrat]

ITS NEVER BEEN A DISASTER!!!

The disaster was the tsunami, which killed 20,000 people and also damaged a nuclear plant and resulted in 0 (zero) deaths so far that can be 100% verified as being as a result of damage to the plant.

as far as I am aware, the water leakage is water that's been used as coolant for part of the facility and is then going through "post processing" to remove radioactivity before being used for the same purpose again. The tank that leaked had water that had been processed once and most of the leakage was stopped by a dam that had been built for precisely that purpose. Theres been a small amount of leakage through a drainage vent or something of the like that has now been sealed. Most of the radioactivity is also beta radiation, which cant pass through skin, isn't very airborne and would basically need you to stand in it barefoot for it to have any appreciable affect on you. gamma radiation from the leakage has been clocked at 1.5mv per hour.

There are plenty of places in the world where naturally occurring radioactivity is higher than that.

This is, once again, 24 hour news channels and the media splashing DISASTER all over something that it patently isn't.

 

[rynnor]

I wonder if they put in hundreds of tons of gelatin whether they would end up with a big nuclear jelly? Would sort out the leaks and you could just slice it up and cart it off?

 

[Wij]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco...e-japanese-people-with-radiation-is-criminal/

 

[Job]

Since the discovery of radiation and its effects..the safe threshold has matched the sensitivity of the measuring equipment..everytime they increased their ability to detect and measure smaller amounts they dropped the exposure levels accordingly simply because noone actually knows what a 'safe' level is..its just down to probability wether or not non fatal doses give you cancer.