Nuclear Cleanup in Wales :)

Scouse

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I know there's a lot of pro-nuclear types on this board so I thought I'd post this. I already knew that this sort of thing would be the case but seeing it in an actual news article still managed to surprise me :)

The article's about decomissioning the old nuclear power station at Trawsfynydd, in Snowdonia. They're attempting to clean it up a little quicker to shave £150 million off the bill.

The bit in the article that made me think was this:

Even if the plans to deal with the intermediate level waste go ahead, the site will not be closed.

It will enter a period called "care and maintenance", in effect a mothballing of the site with the intermediate waste in store.

This will last until 2088, when the site will be completely cleared, which should be finished by 2098.


We know that Labour's "review" of new nuclear was found by the British courts to be illegal. But we're getting 'em anyway - it's not as if the Cuntlibdematives are going to change set-in-stone policy despite it's illegality.

So, apart form the unlimited costs that the UK taxpayer will now have to pick up (estimated to be 90bn+), it's massively saddening to me that we're going to have sites all over the UK that will have to be maintained until the next century before, presumably, we have to concrete over them for the next twenty thousand years or so :(
 

rynnor

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What viable alternative are you offering to nuclear power though eh?

We dont want more gas power stations because they are too reliant on russia.

Coal ones are an environmental nightmare of acid rain/particulates/mountains of ash etc. and we would have to import the coal.

Renewables are not viable - they cannot provide for our energy needs.

So exactly how much choice does the government have?
 

Scouse

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I disagree with you rynnor. :)

In my expert opinion (for I do actually have a degree in this subject, ryn (*dig* ;))) if we spent as much on renewables as we are going to spend on nuclear cleanup alone then renewables are certainly a viable alternative, along with a mix of other non-nuclear tecs.

I'm far from the only person who thinks this. It's not just hippies who think this way.

We do need some new nuclear tho - if only to produce the isotopes needed in other industries (medical etc). :)
 

Wij

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I disagree with you rynnor. :)

In my expert opinion (for I do actually have a degree in this subject, ryn (*dig* ;))) if we spent as much on renewables as we are going to spend on nuclear cleanup alone then renewables are certainly a viable alternative, along with a mix of other non-nuclear tecs.

I'm far from the only person who thinks this. It's not just hippies who think this way.

We do need some new nuclear tho - if only to produce the isotopes needed in other industries (medical etc). :)

Which renewables ?
 

rynnor

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Can anyone remember that long report by the guy at Cambridge University who looked at how much energy the UK could raise from renewables and found it to be piddly?

I'm trying to find it for scouses benefit :p
 

Wij

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Can anyone remember that long report by the guy at Cambridge University who looked at how much energy the UK could raise from renewables and found it to be piddly?

I'm trying to find it for scouses benefit :p

Without Hot Air ?
 

rynnor

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Without Hot Air ?

Thats it :)

Here ya go Scouse -http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/book/tex/cft.pdf

Read that before you go any further saying we can get by on renewables :)
 

Scouse

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Funny that you decided to quote a book full of opinion, as opposed to a scientific study.

Rynnor's rather funny little "science" book said:
While this publication intends to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered, neither the publisher nor the author makes any
representation, express or implied, with regard to the accuracy of information contained in this book

I am very impressed by the forewards from the many giants of industry though. Gives me the horn!

I've read many actual science papers which say the exact opposite of your lovely book. I could, of course, post a few extracts from lots of books that say the exact opposite. But that'd be daft...

Got any without the hot air?* ;)








*actually not that interested
 

rynnor

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Lol -you are funny Scouse - you post on a discussion forum but you just want to present your own opinion as gospel :p

I actually learned a great deal from that article. I had always had a hope that geothermal energy might be an answer but that article showed its serious limitations.

I'm not some blind devotee of nuclear power -it has big drawbacks but unless you have a viable alternative its just mindless mouthing off thats common amongst environmentalists and anti-capitalists.
 

Chilly

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scouse, you got any links to those papers you mentioned? could be some good reading.
 

Scouse

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scouse, you got any links to those papers you mentioned? could be some good reading.

Nah, I read them through professional journal subscription. Internets ain't win for everything :)

Have a look about tho. There's bound to be something. As to its validity...
 

Gumbo

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What do you do on a calm night if you're completely reliant on renewables and it hasn't rained for a while?
 

Scouse

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Did I say completely reliant?
 

Wij

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Please tell me you don't think giant pinwheels are a good idea :)
 

Jeros

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Massive sea and land wind farms could be built, research into development of existing and new renewable energy's is needed.

In the meantime nuclear could serve a temporary source of power.

To hell with the NIMBYS who don't like a windmill that is hundreds of metres away from their own land. Its not up to them or the government to say what a farmer can do with his land, if he wants to lease it to a power company, so be it.

The anti windmill crowd infuriate me. You don't see my complaining about the mobile phone mast right near my place or the train tracks that produce tons of noise.
 

Wij

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Massive sea and land wind farms could be built, research into development of existing and new renewable energy's is needed.

In the meantime nuclear could serve a temporary source of power.

To hell with the NIMBYS who don't like a windmill that is hundreds of metres away from their own land. Its not up to them or the government to say what a farmer can do with his land, if he wants to lease it to a power company, so be it.

The anti windmill crowd infuriate me. You don't see my complaining about the mobile phone mast right near my place or the train tracks that produce tons of noise.

No because phone masts and trains are useful :)
 

Scouse

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No because phone masts and trains are useful :)

Been working at power companies for the past 12 years. They're making a killing out of wind power - and it's very useful :)
 

Scouse

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On massive subsidies I'm sure.

And nuclear power doesn't have the massive subsidy of the public paying for the most expensive bit - i.e. cleanup.

Nuclear is absolutely, utterly out of the question without us footing the bill for that end of the equation.

As for wind - the subsidies are there but reducing as the economies of scale come into it. As we ramp up this technology it'll become cheaper and cheaper.


And remember, we're not talking about getting electricity as cheaply as coal ever again. We are trying to do the same, without pollution...
 

Wij

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As for wind - the subsidies are there but reducing as the economies of scale come into it. As we ramp up this technology it'll become cheaper and cheaper.

I take it your costs take into account backup gas-fired generators for non-windy days/weeks and/or enormous pumped-storage.
 

Tom

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The anti windmill crowd infuriate me. You don't see my complaining about the mobile phone mast right near my place or the train tracks that produce tons of noise.

I hate windmills. I don't care about phone masts, because they're necessary, and a railway line runs behind my street. Has done for 130 years. I couldn't care less, they're important.

Windy-mills aren't. They're an epic waste of money. And they generate only about a tenth of their claimed output.

They're shit.
 

Embattle

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In relation to something about renewables from another topic, think this will be the third time I've posted something like this:

As for other sources of power people should stop living in fantasy land, they aren't viable to supply the whole amount of power used now and perhaps ever unless advances happen in policy but more important in technology. As for the nuclear power stations they take a long while to build thus they you can't take a wait and see attitude towards them. Another big problem is the ideal situation is to have these new nuclear power stations built and at same time increase spending on green alternatives but with the government finaces in the mess they are I doubt this will happen.


I'm fairly sure everyone would like rid of Nuclear power, but it isn't going to happen right now no matter how many stories appear.
 

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