No more Celt NS

[Spinky]

Imo, who really cares about Celt Nightshades.

Gifv Lurikeen Bard Druids Animists Blademasters Wardens and Valewalkers !!1

 

[Aravis]

Originally posted by Arakasi01
Im tired of all morons whining about left axe hitting all the time.
It hits for whole whooping 40 damage wow! and thats before nerf.
Funny also how everyone whines that CD and DW doesnt hit all the time. Im yet to experience that infiltrators/nightshades miss even 2 offhand hits in a row, 1 miss does happen sometimes, but then again the weapon hits for full damage (many times up to 120).
So please shut it about LA hitting all the fucking time kthx.

Well, either you're very unlucky, or I am...

Most fights for me, offhand will fire (and hit) every 3rd or 4th blow, how do I know? That's the one with poison on it. That's with 27+10 DW (average infi spec) and buffed to the eyeballs (PVE only atm before anyone flames me ).

So I have a chance of it trying to hit (compared to yours always trying) which can still miss (like yours) but does more damage when it does hit. Sounds reasonable to me...

 

[Zappy]

1999 hp?

I have 1724 fully buffed with con1, toughness1, 10+con and +75 con and 200 hp on SC. Pretty mean imho...


Anyway, I dont think a class should be balanced with RA's. Firstly not all shades get to lvl 50 and even less get AP as it costs 10 for con 3 and 3, 6, 10 for each level.

I think we should get Celt NS. Only thing is that, that would only help new shades.

I really think its shitty of mythic to change their mind like that. Glacier deleted his lvl 37 (?) luri shade to make a celt

 

[Falcon]

The only reason Celt NS got removed was because of a vast amount of Elf/Luri NS crying because it'd mean they weren't the best they could be anymore plain and simple.

- Elf BMs didn't get this because they'll suck
- Luri Heros didn't get this because they didn't effect the classes balance, luri heros are better for sheild due to dex, but worse for offence, so again no real noticeable change to class balance, we all know it's const and str that matter mostly
- Celt NS would've brought NS upto par with other assassins leaving Elf/Luris still below par

As it stands NS have a roughly 200 - 300hp disadvantage to the other two assassins, the extra dex luris and elfs get is useless due to the evade nerf, the only thing NS have that is nice is their RAs but even then, an NS needs RR5 to get these RAs when at the same level Infils can have Vanish (Double PA > Viper) and then afford luxuries like Duelists Reflexes 3 - 4, MoP 3 - 4 whilst the NS is still struggling to afford RAs that bring it upto par with a non-RA'd assassin, and even then they're only upto par once every 15mins when AP is ready.

I'm quite disgusted at how it was NS that kept NS' nerfed, now I don't mean all NS did it but some - the whiners, the problem is everyone knows Mythic only listens to whiners and doesn't bother asking those that stay quiet and this case only proves it once again.

 

[Cush]

If hibs get Celt NS (when and if they do) mid should get troll sb's !!

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Well put, Xest.

 

[Glacier]

Originally posted by Falcon
The only reason Celt NS got removed was because of a vast amount of Elf/Luri NS crying because it'd mean they weren't the best they could be anymore plain and simple.

- Elf BMs didn't get this because they'll suck
- Luri Heros didn't get this because they didn't effect the classes balance, luri heros are better for sheild due to dex, but worse for offence, so again no real noticeable change to class balance, we all know it's const and str that matter mostly
- Celt NS would've brought NS upto par with other assassins leaving Elf/Luris still below par

As it stands NS have a roughly 200 - 300hp disadvantage to the other two assassins, the extra dex luris and elfs get is useless due to the evade nerf, the only thing NS have that is nice is their RAs but even then, an NS needs RR5 to get these RAs when at the same level Infils can have Vanish (Double PA > Viper) and then afford luxuries like Duelists Reflexes 3 - 4, MoP 3 - 4 whilst the NS is still struggling to afford RAs that bring it upto par with a non-RA'd assassin, and even then they're only upto par once every 15mins when AP is ready.

I'm quite disgusted at how it was NS that kept NS' nerfed, now I don't mean all NS did it but some - the whiners, the problem is everyone knows Mythic only listens to whiners and doesn't bother asking those that stay quiet and this case only proves it once again.

Right on!

 

[Chameleon]

Remember this game is all based upon statistical information and just think about the math .......

a very minimal increase in the celt STR statistics at level 50 will make very minimal difference in the end game. All this "celt ns would be uber" stuff is just crap. I don't care whether they leave celt ns's in or not, it really doesnt make a bit of difference other than they would look different to the elf/luri ......

Take a luri pierce ns with no buffs and compare him to a elf/luri bladeshade with some lowbie str buff and we are talking about the same thing. Does this make him uber? no!

:sleeping:

 

[iguk]

Imo its good they removed Celts as ns.... would have been "The Class" to play. Would have keeled all since ns have very good ra's and with a celt good, str/hp also. So no infil or sb would have a slight chance to kill a "ubah buffed" celt blade shade but as always Im prolly wrong , usually am ,so dont quote me

 

[Gekul]

Originally posted by Falcon
The only reason Celt NS got removed was because of a vast amount of Elf/Luri NS crying because it'd mean they weren't the best they could be anymore plain and simple.

- Elf BMs didn't get this because they'll suck
- Luri Heros didn't get this because they didn't effect the classes balance, luri heros are better for sheild due to dex, but worse for offence, so again no real noticeable change to class balance, we all know it's const and str that matter mostly
- Celt NS would've brought NS upto par with other assassins leaving Elf/Luris still below par

As it stands NS have a roughly 200 - 300hp disadvantage to the other two assassins, the extra dex luris and elfs get is useless due to the evade nerf, the only thing NS have that is nice is their RAs but even then, an NS needs RR5 to get these RAs when at the same level Infils can have Vanish (Double PA > Viper) and then afford luxuries like Duelists Reflexes 3 - 4, MoP 3 - 4 whilst the NS is still struggling to afford RAs that bring it upto par with a non-RA'd assassin, and even then they're only upto par once every 15mins when AP is ready.

I'm quite disgusted at how it was NS that kept NS' nerfed, now I don't mean all NS did it but some - the whiners, the problem is everyone knows Mythic only listens to whiners and doesn't bother asking those that stay quiet and this case only proves it once again.

I would imagine this removal would only affect those who were planning to make a nightshade in the future. Adding Celt nightshades would have made no difference to the current nightshade population, until all the fotm celt assassins get to 50 and higher rrs, when people would start whining about the RA advantage. So it's possible (and given Mythics history - likely), that this would have a negative effect on the current nightshade population - those who have stuck with an underpowered class because they are playing it for what it is rather than to be uber. I for one am glad they have thought about this option, it would be a terrible thing to see the "proper" players of a class at a disadvantage because of a group of players who wanted to be "the best". At the lower RRs, nightshades are underpar, which balances out at later RRs (ridiculous way of balancing I agree). But wouldn't it be better to balance the class as a whole, instead of just those who have the time this late in the game to reroll and uberbuff themselves at the other end?
This isn't a nerf, it wasn't implemented. It would make no difference to the current players (who I would say have more right to comment), and therefore isn't an advantage either.

 

[Eleasias]

direct quote from VN boards that is spot on

"It was removed for one reason. Whining idiot veteran Nightshades who are jealous that the option wasn't available for them at the beginning, and all newcomers to the class will get something they've always wanted, but never had. They won't admit it though.. they'll keep running numbers explaining how the NS RA's, available to all races, are somehow INSANELY imabalancing in the hands of the Celt, with his 20 more str/con.. as if they don't all have bots anyway. "

 

[Eleasias]

Originally posted by Gekul
So it's possible (and given Mythics history - likely), that this would have a negative effect on the current nightshade population - those who have stuck with an underpowered class because they are playing it for what it is rather than to be uber

NS's are the worst assassin but in NO WAY underpowered compared to all the classes in the game, they are far better than the "average" class.

 

[old.LandShark]

Sad, really. Same kind of attitude that had even albs cheering smite cleric nerfs
And here I was all set to reroll hib/excal as a NS if my guild moves to pryd ;p

 

[liste]

in reply to the HP thingies:

i am fairly sure i have 1459 HPs, unbuffed, SCed with toughness1 and aug con1.

 

[Gekul]

Originally posted by Eleasias
NS's are the worst assassin but in NO WAY underpowered compared to all the classes in the game, they are far better than the "average" class.

Aye, meant in comparison to the other assassins, bad wording

 

[old.Emma]

let me point you in the direction of this log of a 50 zerker and 50 merc in a duel. not the dmg of the zerk and merc.. btw this log is from pendragon so the LA dmg is what it is post nurf.

http://www.chuckleslove.com/DAoC/ZerkerLogs/HalldisVsDunchadt1.62C.txt

now tell me LA Dmg is too high ?

in all those styles the merc out damaged the zerker by far.

forget the crap about LA swings all the time.. sure it does.. doesnt mean it hits all the time.

 

[lairiodd]

Have to disagree. There are basically 2 types of ways to choose your race for your char. You can select which one looks the best ( or for roleplay reasons or whatever ), or you can select one based on its effectiveness. Alot who selected luris for shades did so for the increased effectiveness. They researched and determined the optimal setup for the char that they were going to play, and as a reward got a char which was reasonable close to optimal.

It isnt fair that people who have leveled their char to 50 and put a large amount of time into it are put in a position where no matter what they do their char is inferior to someone else's even when that other person has the same rr and level + equipment. Imagine if Mythic introduced a self buff for some class which increased str and con and decided that only chars of that classs created after the patch got the buff, you dont think there would be annoyance amoung people who already had level 50's in that class ? Lets face it you can put a hell of alot of effort into getting good equipment for your char and then get wiped by someone else who has a buffbot, but who hasnt the same grade of equipment as you. Getting that perfect setup where all your stats are +75 and resists are all capped etc is something people strive for regardless ... its the challenge in doing so, and generally "good" equipment is easy to setup, the challenge is in getting close to perfect. Knowing that others in the class are better only because they were created later takes that away.

The only reasonable arguement that I saw for allowing them was that it is possible that there are people who may want to play an assasin in hib but wont because they want to play a human char. In that situation Hib is weakened by this change and thats unfortunate.

Also, remember combat in daoc is winner takes all, you dont get rps for taking your target down to 1% health. This means that even a few percent either way can make all the difference over many fights.

 

[Teh Krypt]

Originally posted by old.Emma
i think you`ll find the reason for removing it was due to it overpowering the NS class. what with your uber RA`s and all you dont need a class with a bit more con/str ;p

look at this way.. even a luri pierce NS will be pwn`n the SB`s in 1.62.

omfg stop playing delete your SB's you become balanced.

 

[Derric]

Here's some idea's I got for assassin classes :

Bring in Celt NS but remove Avoid Pain and the ability to crit on Dot's from their RA's.

Give Infiltrator 2.2 specpoints and remove Dragonfang.

Give Shadowblade ability to choose between thrust and slash.

Allow all assassins to use 2 handed weapons.

Use hooded cloak.

Cancel your buffbot account.

 

[The Kingpin]

Rambo be out of business then..

 

[Generic Poster]

Originally posted by Glacier
CLASS NOTES

- We have removed the ability for Celts to become Nightshades, at least for the time being, while we assess the consequences of this change. We may re-implement Celt Nightshades in a future patch, but it won't go live in 1.62. This was removed based on testing feedback that showed the Celt Nightshades may have a distinct advantage in RvR over Lurikeen and Elven Nightshades due to their inherently greater strength. It was not our intent to redefine the class based on a new race/class combo.


......... Why!

We was almost getting a respectable race for the hib asassain (something with more than 40con and 40str) and they went ahead and removed it... good going mythic... fucking good going...

Why? Hibernia already has the best classes in almost every other line, now you want them to have overpowered assassins aswell!

Best Healer: Druid
Best PBT class: Warden
Best PBAoE class: Enchanter
Best Speeder: Bard
Best Tanks: Hero/Champion
Best Archer: Ranger

If Celt NS becomes available, it will take one month for 300+ to enter Thidranki, 50 of those will continue to lv50. That's a big boost for Hibernia's assassin population. Consider also the nerfed SBs, when the patch comes and they can no longer win fights with one-button tactics, most of them will quit. Getting owned by celt NS will make even more quit until only 5% of SBs are left. When the NS zergs start, infils will start to quit until NSs become the dominant assassin class.

Those poor Shadownoobs will be quitting by the dozen as it is. Without doublefrost on their quickbar, they won't have a clue how to use their other styles and use some skill to fight. Mythic pre-empted this and has already provided the masses of shadownoobs with another class... the Bonedancer. Never before has a class been more suited to clueless noobs, you can do absolutely fuck-all while your main pet tanks, and your heal-pets heal. Should the BD pull agro(Don't ask how, trolls will be trolls), he has an insta-lifetap to save his ass!

So all the shadownoobs can switch to Bonedancers, another one-button fighter, except this one comes with it's own zerg- what better realm than Midgard to train this class!

 

[Eleasias]

Re: Re: No more Celt NS

Originally posted by Generic Poster

Best Healer: Druid

? druid = cleric if both have same spec, except clerics get arguably better buffs

 

[Generic Poster]

Re: Re: Re: No more Celt NS

Originally posted by Eleasias
? druid = cleric if both have same spec, except clerics get arguably better buffs

Give me a cleric with Group Purge and I'll agree.
Druids also get melee-speed buff > Cleric's AF+HoT

 

[old.Alliandre]

hmm. I have a Cleric and a Druid. Trust me, they're equal (on regrowth/rejuv and a bit of nurture/enhance spec)

 

[Generic Poster]

Originally posted by old.Alliandre
hmm. I have a Cleric and a Druid. Trust me, they're equal (on regrowth/rejuv and a bit of nurture/enhance spec)

WTF? How many times have you used GP with your cleric?
Every realm has heals and buffs, but that's one bastard of an RA. Puts druids into another league.

 

[inuyasha]

Re: Re: No more Celt NS

Originally posted by Generic Poster
Why? Hibernia already has the best classes in almost every other line, now you want them to have overpowered assassins aswell!

Best Healer: Druid
Best PBT class: Warden
Best PBAoE class: Enchanter
Best Speeder: Bard
Best Tanks: Hero/Champion
Best Archer: Ranger

Druid is best healer, deal.
Warden is best pbt, deal.
Why best pbaoe? but still, enchanters might be best mages as well.
Best speeder, bard? Why? skalds have better armor, better damage, and instantspeed without instruments? If you speak about better CC class, then your healers kick our bards ass....
Best tank (until now) hero or zerker, depends on purpose, in rvr, i would say zerkers since they do by far the most damage, and with end they eat mages like a lanmower eats grass..
why is ranger the best archer?

 

[Generic Poster]

Re: Re: Re: No more Celt NS

ManaChanters have more then PBAoE, as a class they have more utility than ice-wiz or sup-sm.

Skalds have better damage than Bards, sure, but so does any other class who train their weaponskill!
Buffs, heals, mana/end regen, speed, insta-amnesia, insta-mezz... > skald.

Zerkers don't have annihilation, or slam. If a hib caster doesn't 9s stun you, a tank will.

Lurikeen can be rangers, self-buffs, CD, damage add...


In a good hib group, 2x wardens have pbt up so you can't melee. Druid has GP so you can't CC, chanters have BAoD ready so you can't nuke them. Mythic's idea of invulnerability and guess which realm gets it?

chanter runs up to you and you're trying to get past pbt, he starts dancing and singing "You can't touch this...!"

Another chanter runs up "You can't touch this...!"

Hero runs up behind you "Hammer Time!" and annihilates you.



...and now you want celt NS

 

[Glacier]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No more Celt NS

Originally posted by Generic Poster
blablabla
...and now you want celt NS

... yes :bore:

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Less assassins makes everyone happy. Yay for no celt NS's.

 

[old.Emma]

Re: Re: No more Celt NS

Originally posted by Generic Poster
Why? Hibernia already has the best classes in almost every other line, now you want them to have overpowered assassins aswell!

Best Healer: Druid
Best PBT class: Warden
Best PBAoE class: Enchanter
Best Speeder: Bard
Best Tanks: Hero/Champion
Best Archer: Ranger

If Celt NS becomes available, it will take one month for 300+ to enter Thidranki, 50 of those will continue to lv50. That's a big boost for Hibernia's assassin population. Consider also the nerfed SBs, when the patch comes and they can no longer win fights with one-button tactics, most of them will quit. Getting owned by celt NS will make even more quit until only 5% of SBs are left. When the NS zergs start, infils will start to quit until NSs become the dominant assassin class.

Those poor Shadownoobs will be quitting by the dozen as it is. Without doublefrost on their quickbar, they won't have a clue how to use their other styles and use some skill to fight. Mythic pre-empted this and has already provided the masses of shadownoobs with another class... the Bonedancer. Never before has a class been more suited to clueless noobs, you can do absolutely fuck-all while your main pet tanks, and your heal-pets heal. Should the BD pull agro(Don't ask how, trolls will be trolls), he has an insta-lifetap to save his ass!

So all the shadownoobs can switch to Bonedancers, another one-button fighter, except this one comes with it's own zerg- what better realm than Midgard to train this class!

rofl at that doublefrost comment..

well guess what.. it just happens to be the only decent anytime style and SB can get.

but then.. slash infils dont spam Amythist Slash.. thrust infils dont spam Dragonfang do they.. guess they use tactics and there l33t CS styles to kill things.

They day i meet a thrust infil that doesnt spam Garrotte with DF as a backup.. i`ll eat my hat.