Nightshades, love them or lose them (rant)

[<Harle>]

Cloak, I really dont know who you might be, but I can see that you are trying to make assumptions there about CF without really knowing anything about it. Besides that you are trying to turn a thread about grouping-issues with Nightshades into a flame-war vs CF, which carries us a bit away from the initial topic, as this grouping issue is a concern for the whole realm.

 

[Novamir]

I think Hatchet just wishes people actually knew who DDi are, I mean coming from a l33t pwnz0r UO guild, to an unknown DAoC guild has to be painful for an ostentatious leader?

Harry you've never approached me in game about this chip on your shoulder regarding CF. I have never encountered a disagreeable member of DDi either (except one example at a keep raid which I contacted you about soon after and was civilly resolved). You are a well mannered, decent guild, but I guess you (personally, not guild) thrive on the forum flame wars.

I think maybe you are trying to make up for your anonymity in game with brassy board talk, but really, it doesn't impress anyone... so put up, or shut up, if you really want to have a go at CF /tell Novamir and we can go from there.. otherwise I can't see how you are different from the 15 year old trolls.

 

[old.Zanaa]

Most shades who been asking me for group are at least 4-5levels lower than most of the people in the group. It is a fact that they do less damage than a mage and tank much worse than a tank class. Maybe they are aiming too high since they want really good exp the few times they can get group, I don't know.

Also my experience from other games is that stealthclasses won't stay around much to protect you from other stealthers in rvr, but rather mostly take off solo and hunt their fav targets - other mages When they do choose to play in a group they are very useful indeed.

Zana, Lliad Ddraig

 

[Cloak_]

@Harle

I am not trying to start a flame V CF, I am merely pointing out some facts,, IF U see this as flaming then that is just an added bonus
BTW my quote (unless U dont read ur own forums) was from a CF member, so Im guessing it aint no assumption

Back to the point,,
As for grouping with shades, I have absolutely NO problem whatsoeva having a shade in my group, in fact 1 of my good friends in game is a shade,
I dont group with ppl because of what classes they are, I group with ppl I get on with and can have a laugh with,
I dont go out of my way to make an UBER xp group with set clasess making up the 8, it just happens that the ppl I have gotten to know are of different classes and inc (generally when they are online ) a NS AND a Ranger.

I even sat down the yesterday and worked out how I could make 2 groups to hunt together (1 main group 1 leech group) and guess what, 1 NS and 1 Ranger in each group

 

[old.Hatchet]

Hehe always makes me /smile to read about Nov and others accusing me of seeking fame. Does it make it easier for you to sidestep and ignor the content of the stuff i post?

Unlike you, i prefer to keep debates and flames on the baord - i am not lame enough to /send insults to folks in game (like half of CF did to me when we kicked buffy) if it starts on the board, it stays on the board.

Here are a few CF shades maoning they dont get grouped, one effectively retired, i would have thought after hothnogg, that you would be more interested in helping them out, rather than bitching at me... guess not eh?

 

[Tank Init]

quote
"I've been with him in groups plenty of times, same with most CF folk"

errrr why are u complaining that u dont get into groups then?

either u get into groups or u dont which is it.


maybe it because u want to get into high level groups that are like 5+ levels above u what can u do for these groups?

 

[old.Halfmad]

Originally posted by Ying Yang
quote
"I've been with him in groups plenty of times, same with most CF folk"

errrr why are u complaining that u dont get into groups then?

either u get into groups or u dont which is it.


maybe it because u want to get into high level groups that are like 5+ levels above u what can u do for these groups?

He's never denied getting groups, just says that it's very hard. he's appealing to EVERYONE to try and help out NSs that's all. Most nightshades that I know would like ANY group XP and aren't asking to be power leveled.

One thing that I would say is that if a Nightshade wants to pull agro he can off a tank 5-7 levels higher without any problem usually. Most good nightshades will use thier detaunt occasionally so that they do not pull agro (healers dont like it when we do). So the common complaint that they "dont do enough damage" is quite frankly bullsh!t.

 

[Aeiedil]

Genrally its don't, what I meant is that on the few occaisions I get a group it always has a member of CF in it, and they are more normally the person that got me into the group. Back to the reason I made this thread (and cloak i do know about that post and have replied on the cf forum, but this aint the place for it )

Can I just ask that people take the flaming to another thread I was simply trying to highlight what many might already know, and show that the ns is useful in a group, against common misconception

It is a fact that they do less damage than a mage and tank much worse than a tank class. Maybe they are aiming too high since they want really good exp the few times they can get group, I don't know.

we outdamage the tank though if its equal-level. reasons for aiming higher are so the tank finds it easier to hold aggro, aswell as the obvious benefits of higher exp in the time while the group lasts. also as someone pointed out there are quite a few higher levels in CF, so when i do get groups its most likely part of one of the high-level group. (finliaths are a *joy* ive yet to properly enjoy though )

 

[Matinex]

Originally posted by Halfmad



One thing that I would say is that if a Nightshade wants to pull agro he can off a tank 5-7 levels higher without any problem usually.

If you can take aggro without problem from a tank that is 5-7 high levels higher than you, i will delete Matinex. Seriously, that is not possible, you wont be able to do it, not even a tank that is 1-2 levels higher than you.

 

[old.Halfmad]

Matinex get deleting then, all it takes is for a tank to miss a few swings and the NS will have agro, ask kainz (level 50) who I pulled agro from several times the other night (level 37)

at level 30 I could pull agro in the mines off a 36 tank if I wanted, our swing rate is a lot faster than most classes and we hit for a good amount too, that's not good on a class with low hit points and crap armor lol.

By the way I'm not talking about opening with PA.

 

[Matinex]

LOL ok, i would take the dragon with NO PROBLEMS AT ALL, if he only just missed all his hits and pbaoe didnt affect me and.. blah.

Well is it really that hard to pull aggro from ppl that are missing the mob? im sure a lvl 1 mage can pull aggro from a lvl 50 tank if the tanks miss all his hits.

Not sure really what your points is here, if u still think u can hold aggro from me, just msg me in game tonight and ill proof it for you.

 

[old.Halfmad]

lol did I say I could hold agro.. erm no. We were talking about taking it (even you used that termanology in your post).

If a nightshade uses his styles in combat he's going to get agro, that's a fact think about it. Faster hit rate, roughly same damage each time is going to mean agro. add to that DOT poisons if used and yup NS has agro.

My point is (and always has been) that NS's can dish out damage just as well as anyone, this is something that a lot of people dont seem to believe.

I dont know any nightshade that would want to keep agro away from tanks, we're not designed to take hits but we are meant to dish out damage FASTER than tanks. We can evade hits a lot especially at higher levels but it comes down to healers wanting the tanks to take the damage and that's fine by me.. dont have to repair my armour as much

 

[Aeiedil]

If you can take aggro without problem from a tank that is 5-7 high levels higher than you

it does sometimes happen, esp off a pa, but ive never had it really from spear and lw hero\champs, when it does happen its usually a one-hander\shield tank thankfully they usually can pull back aggro though, because shades cant tank in a group where they are 5-7 levels lower than the proper tank so dont go deleting your char just yet mat

 

[Cloak_]

Ok, sure Aeiedil, Mebbe its not the right place to bring that into the conversation,, but Harle does ask for things

Im agree its not just CF who have unhappy shades, DDi also have thier shades going about a new shade only guild associated to DDi (DDi Dark Brotherhood) or sommets, NOT that Hatchet is happy about these procedings

IMHO ppl do not understand shades,, I mean prime example is Matty
Hey Matty guess what! A shade 5 lvls lower than U can pull agro from ya even if ya dont miss *gasp*
Its the BAD shades that pull the agro from the tank,, and many times its these bad experiences that ppl remember and dislike about the NS class,
Ive grouped with some very good shades, Aeiedil, Klazart, Scyrion, Iziz to name but a few,
They (you) know NOT to pull agro when U have such a low hp table

I want shades at high lvl and will group them as much as possible, damn archers at fort takes always seem to target me

O,, Ive grouped with Aeiedil a lot during the late 20`s early 30`s and can vouch that he knows what/how to play his role in the group..
If NS class chars arnt being grouped then how are they meant to learn how to team play?

Like ive said before, IF there is a spot open in my group we will NOT turn down any char class (unless we havnt a healer yet )

 

[Novamir]

Originally posted by Hatchet
Here are a few CF shades maoning they dont get grouped, one effectively retired

We are recognising the fact that shades are finding hard to group, I myself took the guild to Corus for an item/xp session (which included Aeie and Iziz), yesterday we had a guild trip to EZ and there are more guild meets planned for the future.

that you would be more interested in helping them out, rather than bitching at me... guess not eh?

Being a multi-celled organism, I can suprisingly bitch at you and help my friends at the same time

 

[Aeiedil]

O,, Ive grouped with Aeiedil a lot during the late 20`s early 30`s and can vouch that he knows what/how to play his role in the group..

maybe i should start making a CV

btw a thing about shades tanking i was doing it earlier against black wraiths (the casters were casting too fast and getting aggro from tank). had danita, 41 shield\pierce hero, guarding me, had a 10-sec bubble chant, and in most fights id only get hit once for about 1/3rd my hp the other times where turned, blocked, evaded, or just missed we can tank, just not in the punchbag way

 

[old.Fae]

The main problem with us shades is down to game mechanics and circumstance. The DDi Dark Brotherhood was an attempt to make thinks easier for shades but was unworkable as was.

We level slower than other classes and don't get as many groups so we suffer and its on going, play with a mate at equal levels and miss each other for say a couple of sessions and your mate will out level you either by better soloing ability or the fact he got a group.

This aint a winge when we chose to play a shade we knew it was a tough path but the rewards are RvR heaven. But thats no reason not to try and improve things. Glad to say last night whilst playing I got 2 groups and 3 invites (wasn't able to go as I had other things going on) but it was a nice change from "sorry were full" and "no we need a healer" things looking up hopefully.

Keep the faith and stick at it when your enemy gets to 50 its only a matter of time before you catch em up

 

[Aeiedil]

woot my first flame thread <eyes mist up with sentiment>

at least first on bw

<decides to stop rezzing old threads>

 

[Kirnan]

Lol damn this is a while back "The good old days"

 

[Tyka]

Hehe Aeiedil, now you don't have to worry anymore about having a hard time exping, takes 5-6 days for any class from 1-50 i heard

 

[Rubric]

Originally posted by Aeiedil

<decides to stop rezzing old threads>

I would gets you in big trouble.

 

[old.Laryssa]

now this thread is very old

 

[Amadon]

hmmm.. so it's aeiedil's fault that CF is full of shades

 

[mastade]

Hibs should just know what role NS' have in rvr, NS' rock in grps.. just ask Noche..

 

[Arnor]

donno if this has anything to do with anythin, but when i was lvling my chanter at fins there were 10nightshades pr hero in my groups

 

[Everhate]

It's hard to group with any stealther, but it worths. More fun with a stealther than a Druid spamming heals tho.
And if groups doesn't wants you, then try to create your own warshade's group, sometimes ppl just solo while waiting for a group and will quickly accept to join a pbaoe group (your group ^^), ... you know 2 tanks, 1 warden, 2 bards, 2 pbaoers...(and you).
Another point of wiev..... light/void eldricht & light chanters are harder to group than stealthers tho.

 

[Aloca]

<edited>

Bleh old post

 

[Odon]

Lol

Well,

I know this all sounds a little simple .. but :

When I had been playin DoAC for around 2 days I soon realised that if I wanted a group that worked/always helpful/knew what they were doing/could be counted on/supported me etc.... that the only way to go was through a Guild. Soon a group of us who knew each other soon formed a guild - Draconis Alumni.

Through this we soon had a regular 8-12 people - no matter what classes, who were prepared to explore/have fun/meet etc..
Then as we went up the levels it was apparent that group's needed particular classes in order to progress quickly. The guild grew with new members, however even as a hero I found that groups would be picky on who they accepted in.

Soon by the time I was level 25 I was regularly making my own groups - partly because of the fact I would always end up gorup leader anyway (was on broadband - whilst others often had to re-connect, so I moved upto top position).

I soon found that if I wanted to do a specific task/xp area, eg: Knights/Boars/CM/Siabra City that it was often better for me to actually start forming a group myself. I would quite simly use the /who command to start looking for the required characters within the game that I needed.

On this note: I would say that over my year and a half of playing DaoC that the skilled NS actually is a better tank than most of the natural tanks out there (no disrespect to anyone intended). The basic fact is that very few tanks around my time could actually use the intercept skill as it should be - changing the target depending upon who gets the agro first. There was also a change to hero's in that a lot moved towards dmg output rather than max dmg input (ie: Spearo rather than Blade/Shield spec).

I would still always when forming a group consider a NS as a solid tank capable of taking on anything that a same level hero could. Provided of course that the groups healing is secure - ie: Druid with Bard/Bard & Bard/Bard & Warden or Druid. The main reason being when double hit's come into the equation NS's relatively lower HP's can cause issues - rarely!.

Anyway that is my 2 pennies worth.

 

[Amadon]

Re: Re: Nightshades, love them or lose them (rant)

Originally posted by Aloca
...

look at the date of Aeiedil's post

 

[Aloca]