Nightshades, love them or lose them (rant)

[Aeiedil]

How many 40+ nigthshades can you see on an average night? I find very few, and know of less than I do level 40+ of any other class. Theres me, Nero (if he gets his char bac), Iziz, Fingon, Klazart, and Kirnan (sorry if I missed anyone out). Speaking for myself it dosen't matter what level I am I still get few groups. When I get groups they usually stop after a short while and decide to go to rvr, and some even get surprised when I dont want to go to rvr. Personally I am getting quite sick of the game, which is a shame because I like my character. I know I am not the only of the shades I named that feels this way, and I would guess that if the situation continues that the nightshade population will further decline. ATM I have taken to solo trips to yggdra, and when I refused to group with some people they acted surprised until I told of my reasons. Items while handy will be no use if I am never of a suitable level to use them, and as long as I stay the same level I shall be unable to protect the casters against level 50 assasains. There is the myth that nightshade suck PvE, when this is blatently untrue, yet still noone likes us in groups it would seem.

When there are no more nightshades left then maybe people will wonder why they all went. I would guess there will be few level 50 nightshades for a long time due to the fact that they are genrally unpopular in groups. Group a shade, or you may find yourself being 1-shotted by an infiltrator with no way of having him found.

Now feel free to show your support or flame, I am sure that assasains of other realms feel the same way but id rather that was kept to differnt threads

 

[Matinex]

What is this? u are posting things so that ppl get scared of what they might say to a nightshade, because they will end up on your blacklist. How can you expect ppl to want to group with u and then get mad over that they dont want to, they pay for this game, let them do what they want, and if thats your blacklist, good for you, no need to post it here. When i bought this game and played a hero i knew how things will be for me in the future, getting groups and so on, i knew that bards, mentalists and etc ppl will get groups alot easier than me, i knew that rangers and nightshades would have a hell. But in the end its you who choose this road, deal with it and stop whine about it. I tell you what, when u get to lvl 50, imo you will be the guy who have most fun in rvr, then its your choice not to group with the ppl that did not want you in their xp groups, see how the world goes round? No one HAVE to group with you if they dont want to, they pay for the game and do as they wish, sure it sounds ego. But its you who choosed this path. Sorry but i've hade alot of hard times getting into groups too, because of ppl not needing a tank, jsut do a /who hero champ or warden and u will see that there is enough of them. You know what i do? i get my own groups, always after 30+ i got my own groups, just ask the most ppl i grouped with lately and they will tell you. So does klazart lately, and i seen thigns working good for him too, try to get your own group from scratch, ppl will respect it, and like what u do since u give them xp. And after a while they will ask you to join their groups for what u done to them. Some dont, some do. Anyways you should not think that ppl SHOULD group with you cause u will help them to not getting 1 shotted in rvr, i think they can handle it themselfes, its not like if they group you now, u will come ANYTIME for them and help them find mallus or creep or whoever it is that 1 shotting them. would you do it? no u would not, and thereby you would be on alot of peoples blacklist, there u go, have fun.

Matinex - Bored

 

[iziz]

Aeiedel for president



Damn right Aeiedel...
Waited in a queue for fins for 5 hours on Friday and Saturday, 10 hours on Sunday... and every time I got screwed over and never got a spot.

Then only today I got screwed over again within an hour of logging on...

I'm about ready to give up.

Happy RvRing without your shades Hib.

 

[old.Charonel]

personally i've never been all that bothered about who's in the group... shades, hero's, rangers, enchanters etc...

so long as the group works then its' fine by me, and we all know how much it hurts a mob when it get's perfed by an assasin or when a couple of ranger's crit strike the same target at the same time...

but aeiedel... if you can't find groups and there are similar lvl shades then why dont you just group up together? 8 perfs and CD's on a single mob will really screw it up i'd think

still damn curisous as to why you can't get into pbaoe groups though... all you need to qualify for that as a shade is a taunt style and i'm quite sure you've got that considering that you get one at about 7 piercing or something... so why dumb shit's are still not grouping you i dont know

 

[tilde]

The effort of the "hard-to-get-group"-classes for making 50 is TOTALLY worth it! U will enjoy rvr more than anyone else, u will also get the most rp.

Im a paladin, easy to get group - but now when its all about rvr i regret i didnt make a minstrel, scout or something more enjoyable class for RvR.

Well written Matinex btw

edit:

Did u guys who dont group assasins know that they outdamage your tanks? Put 2defensive tanks who guards eachothers and then u can use 1-2assasins as DAMAGE-DEALERS

 

[iziz]

Matinex...

I don't care if people group with me or not... but when people say yes you can have a spot... but then screw you over because you're not "of the right material" (which incidently is another load of bs), that sucks and you know it.

I don't know how many times I've been waiting for hours for a group - only to see the group run past me with a healer that logged on not 10 minutes ago... just so that they could reduce down time by, oh, a few seconds a pull.

It's about some common curtesy, if people don't want me they should just tell me to piss off instead of messing me about.

And if I sound mad... you're finally getting the picture.

 

[Matinex]

yeah iziz, i dont either like ppl that lie either, when they say u are on que and all of the sudden they get someone else. However, i think i explained this nightshade stuff pretty well so i will talk a bit about grouping, i rather not group with ppl that i have not done before, cause i need to explain things to them, and when i do that they get mad and say "dont tell me what to do". Well thats 1 main reason _I_ dont like to group around with different ppl, i have my small squad that i mostly group with and always know what to do, nothing goes wrong mostly, and if it does its not big deal. No1 is tellign me like today in sheeroes (hi ceixava ) "wtf is matinex doing". So grouping with different ppl is just harder way to get xp, since all u guys out there seem to care about xp.

Anyways, i think i talked enough for this week on this board so im off to sleep.

Just 1 thing, i support nightshades alot, iziz and u know it, when we got a piercing drop for sheeroes i gave it to you, i do the same with alot of ppl that need stuff more than i do etc. So helping them with giving away gold/items is a way doing it instead of grouping with them. They will be happy that way too.

I got a lvl 11 nightshade can you guys stop thinking about yourselfes and get him to lvl 50 asap please?

Ok bye

 

[Matinex]

One last question to you nightshades out there, what is your current lvl and played time + RPs u got? just want to see the big difference between the classes, i got to lvl 50 in 30 days and 15 hours.

 

[Aeiedil]

Matinex, you show perfectly the other side of the coin.

We are hated in PvE because people deem nightshades and assasains as useless and a burden to a group, however a properly specced shade can deal great amounts of damage extremely fast, however this is more normally overlooked because they are then pushed into either doing little damage, grouping with higher levels (which rarely happens), praying you have a good healer, or having the best tank taunt all the time. When needed I will act as a tank, and in a lot of groups i am in, when we travel somewhere dangerous I will im a lot of cases go to the point of near-death to try and save healers, however thankfully I have never needed to give my life so the healers may live. I carry no blacklist, I simply know who has helped me in the past and will be more willing to assist them in the battlefield. Whenever I attempt to make a group then noone wants to hunt what I was planning on targetting, and prefer to go for the typical and boring pookas or equivilant. As for defence, up till recently I would usually drop everything if I saw anyone die to someone in the gorge to try and hunt out the attackers, usually with little to no input as to where the attackers actually were, thus making my job hard, so yes I do help as much as I can, in the same way on my druid I res all that I can. I have tried playing "group friendly" classes, but I can now say that they hold no joy for me atall. The only class that kept me occupied for very long was a shield\blunt hero, whom I may add was a lot easier to get groups with.

Charonel, there are not 8 shades of similar level, and 8 PA\CD's would not be enough to take down a high level creature, however a tactic similar to what you suggest is used on keep archers, where I and 1 or 2 other shades, one normally being Iziz, climb up and pa the same archer, thus bringing down defence fast.

I am not trying to scare people into grouping, and I hope I am not coming across as playing for pity. It seems that the nightshade class has been heavily stereotyped into the kind of class that is useless, and while some people know different it would seem that this does not change the grouping situation. Nightshades are versatile to many uses, yet these are ignored.

Backup tank, Aggro magnet (taking aggro from healers), Caster-Interrupters (high dex\qui = fast-cast dd), Scouts, Scout-detectors

These dont take into account the variety of poisions at a shades disposal, with DOT, Disease, Str debuff, Str\Con debuff, and Snare

Shades just need a chance to shine, but oppurtunitys are few and far between

 

[Aeiedil]

Level : 41.15
/played : 21 days 6 hours 16 mins
RP : 24,505
Fletching : 567

Current exp rate, 1 bubble every 1-5ish hours (approx)
1 hours = in a good group
5 hours = solo
More normally I am solo lfg, and getting little exp, or getting exp and getting killed, the 1-hour-per-bubble are few and far between and normally last for a very short period of time sadly

This 21 days or is me spending pretty much as much time as i can stand playing the game, but for some reason days of soloing kinda makes you wanna kill something.

 

[tilde]

My advice to all assasins, is to xp with a good guildgroup perm.

 

[old.NorME]

If u dont get group, make one.

I have same problem with my lowbie ns, but it is solved by making a group


As a warden i never say no to a ns that asdks me if I need a group (ie he is making one) as long as it is not to kill pookas

Think alot of those ns's out there should make more groups.

 

[old.Setakari]

Eh, I for one love Nightshades. Sometimes I even have two in my group . The reason why? Seeing that a lil lurikeen or elf can outtaunt a two level higher Celt or Firbolg tank is just hilarious. Nightshades deal out the most damage if proper specced (talkin about melee). And not to mention they come in handy in RvsR. Need a scout? Let the Nightshade do it. A mage is giving you a hard time? Let the Nightshade do it.

But - you chose for this. You knew Rogues get a hard time. I've seen bards that were level 25 when I was lvl 28 and I took them in my group. Now I see the same bards are lvl 38 when I am lvl 32. It's all about personal taste. Take the advantages and disadvantages with any class you choose.

One last note: Every class is useful in some way. Nightshades do NOT suck in PvsE. Tanks do not suck in RvsR (cough cough - they serve well for cannon fodder!) etc.

As for Matinex, yup, most of the time I only group with people I know. Just to avoid any misunderstandings and some crazy people.


Cheers.

 

[Aeiedil]

Attempts at making groups usually fail. About the only place i know that its possible to hunt at is the pookas due to a lack of grouping at this level, the other places i have hunted being with higher levels and being places like Cursed Forest (once), the bog, black wraith groups etc (twice), and deep in sheeroe (once). with the sort of groups that it is possible for a nightshade to form it seems people are unwilling to go to sheeroe in any depth, and the boredem of fighting black horses is immense, so i am at a loss as for things to hunt.

 

[Feldegast]

Well for the pooka boredom.. its a fact of life, I think most of us spent a major amount of time killing those damn horsies at the low 40's..
Boring? yes! Why go there? Good exp...

NS are good in groups and I will now use the quote mythic pulls out when some1 complains about balancing issues
"Its a perception problem"

 

[old.Niljindil]

Re: Aeiedel for president

Originally posted by iziz


Damn right Aeiedel...
Waited in a queue for fins for 5 hours on Friday and Saturday, 10 hours on Sunday... and every time I got screwed over and never got a spot.

Then only today I got screwed over again within an hour of logging on...

I'm about ready to give up.

Happy RvRing without your shades Hib.

I was in a grp when you was on the waiting list iziz. And i think Ninari was the list keeper. And everytime someone left you would be the first in line.

BUT, you were not online, so what is there to do? and when you eventually turned up, we were 8 characters in the group.

Even when i joined they said iziz was first, but you were not online. :/

Edit: a tip, try to find someone that you know who plays a healer type char and go out looking for groups as a team. I do that with my friend who is a light/void eldritch(he is NOT maxed in void 'yet' making him really useless in pbae grps which admittedly is the best xp around, but i try as hard as i can with "i got mana regen ana a friend" and it sometimes work, sometimes it doest.) and if noone that you know is willing to do that, then you know the wrong ppl.

 

[iziz]

I can't speak for Aeiedel here... but the problem isn't about not getting groups - it's about people saying yeah sure - I've got you in the queue, you'll get a spot - and then completely screwing you later on when your turn comes around. (Or sometimes just completely ignoring you - a "oh just go away" I find a lot more polite than the silent "hope they'll just go away" treatment)

I'm a patient lurikeen - I know that people have that "perception problem"- but ffs... if you don't want is in your group just say so damn it!

If you think I'm moaning please read this... It happened yesterday, but it is typical of what happens nearly every day to me. (I'll apologise for the language used in advance)

http://www.nireland.btinternet.co.uk/fuct/

Sorry if it seems like I am picking on you Aeindil - but what you did was incredibly lame and I just cracked last night - so I took a nice screeny to show the world.

After you've read that please go ahead and tell me if I'm over-reacting. This is what happens to me on a near daily basis.

Oh - and if anyone can answer Aeindil's question at the end - I'd be very grateful for an answer.

 

[iziz]

Even when i joined they said iziz was first, but you were not online. :/

I was... but Aeindil said I wouldn't get a spot until one of the pbaoers left... which I can live with... so imagine my surprise when Elance turned up. (I was sitting behind you all stealthed and have a few nice screenies if you want me to show you as proof.

*sigh*

 

[iziz]

A reply to my own post - I know it's bad but nm.

I stand corrected...

I probably was offline at the time because I logged off shortly after being pissed on after 10 hours of waiting. However you weren't even in the group.

You were in RvR at the time - you may remember I killed that guy jumping on you (I have a ss of him dead after doing so if you want it!)

So yes... I probably did get an invite at the time that you joined the group, coz I did get one about 3 hours later. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna join a group that's pissed on me just coz they feel guilty about it. I do want XP... but not that badly.

 

[old.Rhino-DAoC]

I used to hunt with nightshades all the time, while a hero is preferable nightshades were always welcome...maybe its different at high lvls..

 

[Cuthervaen]

NS

Well best grouping with a NS I had was with Kirnan at Eidolons.

Nightshades proved great to interrupt casting mobs until they get in range (as you can't go to melee Eidolons safely, too much of them and other nasties in the middle of the spawn)

Works wonder when pulling Venators too.

Too bad there are not more casting mobs/shooting mobs like these.

Good thing Mythic should implement to help stealthers fidn group would be, not count stealthed people when calculating BAF.

So pull with 6 people, 2 of them being stealthed, u get the baf for a 4 group, as mob "can't see" the 2 others.

Would make stealthers really desirable for groups that want to pull mobs they still have pbs handling, and that want to avoid pulls of 3 or 4.

But well it's a dream, even if such a thing was brought in by mythic you'd be 50 before it comes to here.

 

[Aeiedil]

Cuth I have been with you near Siopa doing Eidolons, and with the dex buffs I was casting so fast that I was interrupting most of the dd's (the occasional one slipped, but was better than if they all slipped), also unlike a caster when that did aggro them into melee on me I survived the first, and just about the second hit, giving tanks to take aggro from my weak dd. Had a caster done this he would have die, as would a ranger, due to the fact I do less damage with a dd than them, but still do enough to disrupt.

 

[Cuthervaen]

Aeiedil

Yep Aeiedil, sorry forgot we did it after with u too.

Woudl there be more real nasty casting mobs, not just bunch of boring meleeing drones, or stealthing mobs (real ones) then shades would have much more of a role to play :/.

Templar Knights camp are a step in the right direction, with that mix of pseudo clerics and pseudo tanks, but having mobs camps where u pull a linked 3/4 group of 1 archer/1 tank/1 healer/1 caster mob would rule, making xping closest to RvR fun

And then would make shades more useful too. The function of a shade is just too elaborate for PvE :/, though a must in RvR.

 

[Aeiedil]

But cuth to continue being useful in rvr they need to do well in pve

 

[Kirnan]

Hi to anybody that hasn't seen me ingame in a while.

Kirnan is fully retired for xping and has been for a few weeks now. Largely due to the same reasons as stated by Aeiedil. Xping in the 40's takes far too much effort without the added discomfort of finding a group that will accommodate you. In saying this I still think I had a much easier time than I'm sure some of the other high lvl shades are having. I had a lot of help from some great friends.

Problem more recently is I don't have the time to xp at all, not even my Skald. But that is due to a busier personal schedule, which is a good thing since I stopped xping anyway. Else I wouldn’t be getting much sleep. Couple of hours in the evening is just pointless.

After playing a Skald to 34 it has only emphasised how much harder it really is to xp a Nightshade. Getting asked to group instead of having to ask and feeling like the group is doing you a favour every time they say yes.

My advice to anybody starting a new character is to try and pick something that is balanced well for both RvE and RVR such as a Skald, Cleric, Warden (when the warden patch changes arrive), Minstrel and I'm sure many others I can't think of. It's depressing when the game turns into a fruitless search of xp. Fair enough it should take time to lvl but it shouldn't turn into a chore. In my opinion it is not worth wasting all the fun you could have in RvE so you can have more in RvR. RvR can easily get boring too and a well-balanced character is the best way to get the most enjoyment from the game.

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by iziz
A reply to my own post - I know it's bad but nm.

I stand corrected...

I probably was offline at the time because I logged off shortly after being pissed on after 10 hours of waiting. However you weren't even in the group.

You were in RvR at the time - you may remember I killed that guy jumping on you (I have a ss of him dead after doing so if you want it!)

So yes... I probably did get an invite at the time that you joined the group, coz I did get one about 3 hours later. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna join a group that's pissed on me just coz they feel guilty about it. I do want XP... but not that badly.

Upon reading that i dont think we are even talking about the same day Anyway, i was in a pbae group some week ago, and you were first on the list. But you was offline for like 2 hours, i did /send and who all the time someone left cuz i was chosen as "list person finder"

and yeah! i want thats ss :]

 

[Aeiedil]

Well there goes one of the shade group, *Strikes Kirnan off the list*, that leaves Nero, Iziz, Fingon, Klazart, and Me (are there any I've missed out?)

Seems to me that in the realm atm theres either 35-45 shades, or 0-20 shades, but few in between.

 

[snox]

Im kind of new To hibernia but imo. i love haveing a nightshade/shadowblade in my gruope, In hibernai i play a hero i love just stading and tounting while the Ns makes the dmg,

I think Ns/Sb are good in a gruope, as long as they dont tank all the time =) they do good dmg and relly makes Xp'ing go faster..

well that just what i think =)

 

[Kirnan]

Scyrion?

 

[Aeiedil]

ah yeah im sure that I had missed one I havent seen him around in a while though :\ either hes on permanent /anon, or playing alts