Nightshade HP formula

[Aeiedil]

Heres a formula to calculate and predict your hp's for all levels, specs, races, ra's, items. it will be in my NS spreadsheet v2 when complete, but until that time here ya go

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=46308484&page=1

Base Hitpoints = 20*1.03^[Toughness Spec]
Level-relevant Hitpoints = [Level]*7.3*1.03^[Toughness Spec]
Base con Hitpoints = [Level]*0.14*([Racial con]+[Added con at char creation])*1.03^[Toughness Spec]
Item con Hitpoints = [Level]*0.07*[Item +con]*1.03^[Toughness Spec]
Augmented con Hitpoints = [Augmented Con level]*(0.4*[Level]+1)*1.03^[Toughness Spec]
Item +hits hitpoints = [Item +hits]

The total hitpoints is the sum of these 6 values. *NOTE* All steps must be rounded to the nearest integer.

From this it can be shown that
1 : Base +con has double the effect of item +con
2 : Toughness effects ALL methods of increasing hitpoints apart from the +hits from items (as stated in a recent grab-bag)
3 : I have too much time on my hands

 

[old.Tzeentch]

 

[Aeiedil]

hey elph i got it to work in the end

 

[Arnor]

Too




Much



Free



Fucking



Time

 

[Aeiedil]

Arnor this was the easy formula im thinking

the next parts will be hardest, offence and defence comparisions

 

[old.Niljindil]

Great! now gifv evade formula!

 

[Arnor]

djeeesus



but make sumt for zerkers too :>

 

[old.Niljindil]

The one thing that disturbs me is that mythic refuses to let people know how their game works.

It just smells "lets not tell so we can add in random modifiers without them having anything to compare with" all over

Great job tho looking forward to see the future reports

 

[Aeiedil]

niljindil, evade is gonna be hard to do due to the cap
my initial feeling though is that there is around a 20-25% max add to your base evade with capped stats if you have a base (evade level *5% + dodger level *3%) of about 35 %

of course its capped at 50%, so im gonna have to do these tests on my lowbie shade and on gorre, because on aeiedel im way over cap without buffs

as for why i aint doing anythign for zerks.......

i dont play a zerk

what im least looking forward to is offence comparision. can you see hte nightmare of tryign to compare LA+2-hand capability to 2.5x spec and dragonfang to poision boosting ra's, not to mention damage types and weapon availability?

next up for a look at is defence though, and so evade will ofc be a part of that. dont expect it to appear for a while though, im gonna get as much data as pos on my easter hols and write it up after when i cant play i expect


(btw my reason for doing these is the reasoning that if i can prove through numbers the deficiencies of the nightshade they might do something. imo qualative argument gets nowhere, they seem to need numbers to do stuff of course i am conducting the tests in as un-biased a method as possible, however my main research is done from the ns's point of view and then extended to cater for other realms. if when i test there are large anomolies when i compare with the other realms i will have to do mroe reasearch etc etc etc )

 

[Aloca]

not at home so i can confirm my calculations but i think i got about 20 more hp than i have

 

[Danya]

Hmm that calculation should work for all rogues presumably Aeie, will see what it gives for my minstrel when I get home. BTW, if you want some evade testing, I can offer my services on said minstrel - with evade 2 I'm not going to be reaching the cap.

 

[Pin]

Well, the formula isn't wholly accurate (you said yourself that you are 1.3% out on your own hits).

The thing you are doing wrong is rounding off the fractions to decimals. I believe it will be more accurate if you:

Change the 0.14 to 1/7 (or 2/14)
Change the 0.07 to 1/14
Change the 7.3 to 50/7 (or 100/14)


Also, Aug Con has the same effect as item +con. You should replace the aug con line by

[Level]*1/14*[Augmented Con Level]*6*1.03^[Toughness Spec].


Yes, all rogues use the same formula, and the only thing that changes to other base classes (mage, fighter, etc) is the 14 divisor.



(P.S. I had pretty much done this myself already, but CBA finishing it off, or publishing it anywhere )


Edit: Oh, I haven't done anything for SBs extra hits either, but I should be able to run that out pretty quickly... I'll have a look for a couple of data points.

Edit2: Buffs have exactly the same effect as item con aswell.

Edit3: I'm not 100% on all parts of the formula either, but I'll check a couple of things tonight to help you finish it off.

Edit4 (should really be farming extra postcount, but nvm): Looking at SBs extra hits, I believe it's +1 per level over 5 and is affected by Toughness (but get a few more numbers from SBs to check it).

 

[Pin]

Oh, and this is also the reason I'm wishing I was Briton with +con at creation, rather than Saracen with uber-capped evade (exactly the same position as NightShades find themselves)

 

[Pin]

(and just to boost my postcount some more)

:lol: at some of the whines in that VN thread....

e.g.

Norse SB full buffs, full sc gear, aug con 3 toughness 3 + 10 con at creation ~2200hp

Brit infil, fullbuffs, full sc, aug con 3 toughness 3 + 10 con at creation ~2100hp

Lurikeen NS fullbufs, full sc, aug con 3, toughness 3, + 10 con at creation ~1800 hp..

Change those numbers ~2140 for the SB, ~2000 for the Infi, ~1850 for the NS.

 

[Aeiedil]

just noticed a minor error. the level multiplier was 7.4 and not 7.3

thanks pin, ill put in your suggestions and test it. i was thinking that a fraction was how it was done but it was getting late when i finished it

the reason that RA con and base con is not combined is that the server seems to round the parts piece by piece to get to the correct values. ill see if this is needed with your suggested fractions.

as for buffs, id assumed they were toughness-effected and item-strength, however didnt post it up because i personally hadnt tested them, and they were not a part of this series of posts (as the americans seem unable to grasp). however it will be a part of my second nightshade sheet

i now know sb hp are [level-5]*1.03^[toughness spec], however this will form a part of the defensive report and not this report.

danyan, im not sure which classes it works on. i expect it to work for assasins and mincers at the least, and possibly for archers but its doubtful itd be nice if it did
i really need help with evade testing, and i will post up a post soon. my theory is the following is the formula :

([base evade level]*0.05+[dodger level]*0.03)*(1+[constant]*([dex]+[qui]))

if this is consistent with the HP formula then base dex/qui will have a different effect to buff dex/qui however i have not yet done tests. my tests for this will start on sunday

if you wish to help then please do the following. it must be on a class with less than 20% base evade. level is not important. it can be done buffed and unbuffed, but i would prefer unbuffed. record evade rates over around 200 enemy attacks, and then email the miss/evade/hit etc log to sch20@sussex.ac.uk for me to use will post up on general requesting this when i get around to analysis.

again, thanks all for the replies

 

[Aeiedil]

just out of interest pin, have you done any other research?

i am currently attempting to find all the formula regarding nightshades damage etc, however i think that the same ones on the whole apply to all assasins. if you have got any data logs, or any incomplete etc formulas could you email them to sch20@sussex.ac.uk for me please would help me a lot with the spreadsheet etc.

 

[Aeiedil]

<doublepost>

 

[Pin]

(read your PMs)

 

[Aeiedil]

have done pin soz for how long it took but i cant use a computer on the net very often atm

btw, for anyone that cares, expect an assasin report before my predicted time. i have changed my plans and am now going to do the complete analysis in one post, however only an analysis of the differences between the classes. hopefully if i put the whole thing in one post americans on the devboard will be able to understand it a bit more.

if an imbalance is shown then i will also suggest ways of changing the mechanics with formulae where possible so that the imbalances between the 3 classes can be smoothed out, however without creating 3 classes that are identical. should there be imbalances my aims with the method of addressing will be to move the nightshade more towards the magical, shadowblade more to melee, and inf more to the central 50/50

 

[Pin]

Corrected formula for all Rogues

Okay, taking Aeiedel's data and cross-checking with some Alb and Mid rogues, I got this corrected formula true for all assassins, archers and Minstrels...

Note the 5% bonus to HP for Shadowblades and the 2x penalty for rogues with <50 Base CON.


(1 + 0.05*[Shadowblade])*(20 + 10.8*[level] + 0.072*[level]*([Total CON] - max(50 - [Base CON], 0)))*(1 + 0.03*[Toughness]) + [Item +HP]


Where:
[Shadowblade] is 1 if you are a SB, 0 if you are any other rogue class,
[level] is your level,
[Total CON] is your CON,
[Base CON] is you naked CON,
[Toughness] is your level of Toughness,
[Item +HP] is your +hits from items.


(NB. The formula is slightly simplified with respect to rounding, so actual values may differ by small amount (0-3hp depending on Toughness level))

 

[Ebonn]

Originally posted by Pin

~1850 for the NS.

Yup seems about right, i have 1837 fully buffed, fully sc'ed, aug con 3 and toughness 2,and 10 con at char creation, guessing the next toughness would put me to 1863-1867.

Unbuffed i have 1337 hps ^^

 

[old.chipper]

poor lad must be really bored

 

[magol]

Unbuffed i have 1337 hps ^^ [/B][/QUOTE]

i got 1337 hp unbuffed to we tha 1337 crew