New start

[Flimgoblin]

It did the same has a high crit WoP except festering needed 2 tactics loaded and blowing 2 long cd skills and a morale then using a long cast skill. All this while hoping they dont run out of range and you crit.

See, they could hit decent class damage occasionally

 

[`mongoose]

The problem with Shadow Warriors is that their ability to interrupt, snare and generally piss off Destruction is often overlooked.

There are some SW that we actively hunt down before even looking for other classes. Otherwise our healers spend their time alternately silenced, interrupted, set back and snared.

Very irritating.

D

 

[AngelHeal]

mate, no matter what game or realm..
never ever go bad side...

(bad side seems to lose soooo often)


</me wonders whos gooing to smack me now)

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Hehe I think I was looking at the AP drain (looks like it should be a disarm )

Glad you agree though (well half-agree )

If I could spec immolation on my SH I would 1000 pt ticks on "Lots of arrers" would be nicer than 70 pt ticks

It's (edited) pleaseing to get any dot ticking for above 300 nowadays with the resist soft caps and overcapping that most destro do on Elemental resists (so a debuff only brings them down to the soft cap or slightly below it, having little effect bar an extra 1-3% damage).

The one exception is detonate, which has a DD component to it that can do 500-1000 damage on a good crit.

You are thinking of just after release when all i would have to do to kill a heavy shield tank is put ignite, boiling blood and detonate on him and watch him melt even with healing (at release dots frequently did 800+ a tick on crit, and PWF put any healer who cast more than one HoT on a target in serious danger. I agree - we needed balancing then as Immolation reigned supreme - now it's the black sheep of the BW spec lines.

Problem with Immo now is that they more than halved DoT damage (a good tick now is 300-400 with 1100 Int) and that it lacks burst and has done since they toned the dots down (as usual, they overdid it). Not to mention that resist debuffs no longer stacking have made the best tactic in the line redundant, since any BW with a brain uses Boiling blood to debuff Corporeal for Detonate etc, and because most prime DPS rotations use ignite as the starting DoT, it is usually removed quite quickly (the debuff tactic requires ignite). Then add the fact that targeted debuffs don't even stack with AoE debuffs (KOTBS) and you see why no BW in their right mind specs for that tactic anymore.

The reapply dots tactic is a liability even with a good group, and the extended duration provides no compensation for the lack of spikes in the line (and although fixed now, at one point actually lowered the damage per tick of the dots, spreading the same amount over a longer duration!)

They need to buff Withering Heat / DoT damage on the order of 20-30% to make it a viable primary spec again - right now nobody really goes past PWF (heal debuff) at the bottom of the tree except to get Withering heat. - the top half of the line is totally undesirable.

I'm not saying the BW is underpowered - it's not. One of it's spec lines is total trash nowadays though. I literally spec into it for solo and duo play to get the Withering Heat snare for clearing off my RP duo partner.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I still get chain crit by Withering heat for 900+... this patch...

Not that I'm wearing full Warlord gear with a stacked uber group or anything

That's with just under 400 toughness so not amazing, but my resists are into the softcap thanks to the set bonuses. (in a mix of annihilator and sentinel)

Now I expect that BW is at 100% combustion and hurting himself (once for each WH - not for each tick) but compared to the damage they're dishing out it can't be that big a cost

That said, the withering heat lot are probably OK, it's the ones with a group built around annhilate that are pretty much unkillable (WP+Guardbot should make you hard to kill - not immortal) and dishing out crazy damage with relatively little backlash (since it only hits once per AoE and not once per target)
I guess part of the reason they're so hard to kill is any melee that tries to attack them will be dead in short order.

 

[Bugz]

BW 6 man gank groups are unkillable - and in the process can take out vast vast amounts of people in open field.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

BW 6 man gank groups are unkillable - and in the process can take out vast vast amounts of people in open field.

That's bollocks A good 6 man gank group vs a full warband of randoms will die 90% of the time, but take out 1-3 of the warband's groups in doing so in an open field situation (unless said warband are all clustered in under 30 foot in which case, they were dumb and had it coming).

Where they are extremely powerful is in narrow areas and choke points such as keeps, certain scenarios and a few select areas in general orvr - in those situations a 6-man group can indeed take on a full warband and walk away from it.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

last post - lots!

Mostly fair, Withering Heat is the only decent ability in the whole damn line, so nobody goes past it to get the buggy, long RUT KD or the redundant tactics.

Conflag spec as a whole needs toning down, and i would say guard + bomb is very powerful in some situations and worthless in others (think bodyguard in daoc if you remember that). Also, it requires 2 good, switched on healers who know how to pre-heal and tanks who are specced for snare/KD etc - it is a high-risk, high-reward strategy. I think it'd be more balanced though if Morale 2 was reduced to a 3 second stun duration instead of 5 - it would take 2-3 BW's to kill anything that isn't a full-glass cannon caster in that time.

 

[Bugz]

That's bollocks A good 6 man gank group vs a full warband of randoms will die 90% of the time, but take out 1-3 of the warband's groups in doing so in an open field situation (unless said warband are all clustered in under 30 foot in which case, they were dumb and had it coming).

Where they are extremely powerful is in narrow areas and choke points such as keeps, certain scenarios and a few select areas in general orvr - in those situations a 6-man group can indeed take on a full warband and walk away from it.

Certain groups do it nearly every single night. I ran with them a couple of times myself and we were flagging down groups of up to 20-25 without a single death.

As long as the warrior priests are clever enough to utilise their tools at the right moments and to spread out and kite, they are literally unstoppable against teh zerg.

Worse comes to the very worse - you can always kite them back too (in the same way the shaman who puts up the 6 vs 6 videos does - name escapes me sorry - but very good player).

 

[civy]

We bomb hard mode We use 2 rps to heal, almost never have a guard bot and no pullin. Makes it so much more sweet when you kill a opted bomb grp with DOK's and guard bots with a magus

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Certain groups do it nearly every single night. I ran with them a couple of times myself and we were flagging down groups of up to 20-25 without a single death.

As long as the warrior priests are clever enough to utilise their tools at the right moments and to spread out and kite, they are literally unstoppable against teh zerg.

Worse comes to the very worse - you can always kite them back too (in the same way the shaman who puts up the 6 vs 6 videos does - name escapes me sorry - but very good player).

Certain groups do it every night vs 2-3 groups - not the entire zerg. All the entire zerg has to do to kill a group that is kiteing is mount up, run past you and hit a KD/KB and it's all over.

Still not buying that they can do it over and over again sorry. It is possible, but not on a consistent basis - the Shaman that puts up 6v6 videos is Miri by the way. I'd imagine for every video they put up of killing le zerg, there's 4-5 wipes due to being over-run even with the kiteing.

Anyway we can debate apples & oranges all day.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

mate, no matter what game or realm..
never ever go bad side...

(bad side seems to lose soooo often)


</me wonders whos gooing to smack me now)

Hi

How would sir like his spankage, flat paddle or Cat o' nine tails?