New idea of gaining realm points!?

[Svartmetall]

Summed it up nicely there NetNifty.

 

[Balbor]

Tbh I don't know why RvR players have a problem with rps for PvE, unless ofcourse its because they like having low RR people to farm.

i think you hit the nail on the head there, prople from other realms want low people that are easy to kill with little effort and people from your own realm don't want you compeating with you, remember if you get killed quickly by the enemy then you are not killing enemies that they wish to kill or adding to there fights.

 

[Vindicator]

You can't have it both ways.

If you want RAs to only be attainable from RvR, then levelling XP should only be attainable from PvE and artifacts should only gain XP from PvE. Don't like that? Then don't be so damn obstinate in refusing to accept that PvE players should be able to get RAs via PvE. There's no reason to deny us it.

No, They Can and do have it both ways, atm artifacts and players earn exp from RvR.

There's far 2 much Us and Them of an attitude in this Thread. No, personally I dont think it would hurt to give the high level mobs a bounty of rps on there head so people have a nice bonus for killing mobs because why would anybody bother killing Legion these days ? or killing all the high boss's in Dartmoor / Sheeroe hills / dragon lair etc ? Nobody wants those items any more, they can get all the uber wtfpwn gear crafted or from encounters in Toa. Give the epic zones some loving \o/

 

[Saggy]

Please keep in mind that RAs are the only RvR-only thing in Daoc. Getting RAs via RvR should also mean that everything, everything, should be gainable via RvR too. That would simply suck

Have said this before, will say it here and again in some other thread in the future:
PvE-only RAs via high-end PvE.
RvR-only RAs via RvR.
PvE-only MAs via MLs.
RvR-only MAs via Realm Ranks.
(both RA and MA systems would need changes)

...and everyone would be happy, no? As for how things are now you are getting better RvRer via PvE (MAs) and better PvEer via RvR (RAs) which is quite silly, no? Am I the onlyone with this feeling that PvErs want to reach high Realm Rank via PvE just to wtfpwn stuff in RvR?

Getting RAs via PvE would "force" RvR-people to PvE more - 2am, frontiers are empty, what to do? Farm RPs via PvE because that's probably what your enemy is doing to get stronger!

 

[Tualatin]

Ow btw, if you would give rp's for keeptaking.. Guess what'll happen in teh night/morning? Special keep farming for rp's.. So, again more PvE Not a very nice solution.

 

[harebear]

Saggy's idea forthewin.

 

[Saggy]

Getting RAs via RvR should also mean that everything, everything, should be gainable via RvR too. That would simply suck

Erm, getting RAs via PvE even

 

[NetNifty]

Getting RAs via PvE would "force" RvR-people to PvE more - 2am, frontiers are empty, what to do? Farm RPs via PvE because that's probably what your enemy is doing to get stronger!

Not if it was drastically lower RP reward for mobs, if its 1 rp for a red as i suggested then it would take a hell of a lot longer to kill 1000 reds than kill 1 solo person.

 

[Balbor]

Ow btw, if you would give rp's for keeptaking.. Guess what'll happen in teh night/morning? Special keep farming for rp's.. So, again more PvE Not a very nice solution.

they already have started give RPs for Keeptaking and also for Keep defending, the defenders have the oppertunity to gain more becase they can defended the keep more than once (for there bonues) while the attack get theres once when they take the keep. Infact because of the way it work (RPs earned during the fight going towards the reward) if there are no defenders at all you won't get many RPs. The bigger the battle and the longer the it goes on the larger the reward pool get.

 

[Gorrion]

My idea was not intended as letting epic mobs like the dragon or the epic mobs from the highlevel SI dungeons give realm points, the reward in these are already given from items and respec stones etc. No i would like to see all the frontier's, not only emain, odin's Gate, or HW, be populated with players going for the low rp reward for killing these mobs in rvr zone's and ofc the exp.
it will be rewarding both ways, both for the pve type players and the rvr players, as the rvr players will have more for the picking with the plains crawling with level 45+ players seeking a bit of rp and exp.
Emain will always be emain, althoug the "Frontiers Expansion" may change that, but a battlefield for the Fotm will always be at hand, no doubt about that, but the thrill of walking between low bushes or high tree's looking for exp/rp farming 45+ players will be a new option aswell for the hardcore rvr, but aswell for the pve/rvr players. surely would bring alot more fights to the Frontier dungeons aswell, and boost the Keep warfare alot, as mob's in DF would also give a few rp to pve players.

 

[Gorrion]

thas cuz pve players are noobs

edit: generally no one likes pve, its a thing u gotta do in order to rvr.

You always have a retarded view on post's on these board's mister moo, but hell lets asume you are right. What harm would it be to you or the game in general, by bringing life to the frontiers, frontier dungeons, and more keeptake's, to gain acces to Darkness fall??
You say PVE players are noob's .... well if so, you will have a load of noob's to kill and gain realm points from, by going into the various frontiers and dungeons and kill these "noob's", bringing a whole new era into the game!.
"Dark age of Camelot" need a kick, as the rvr as we know it has turned sour to a great many players. New races, classes, Artifacts, and the unbalanced ML ability's have entered the game, creating a need for a more open aproach to the RVR concept, by adding a small rp reward to frontier mobs, the way to bring back "Dark age of Camelot" to be best pvp game avalible, is at hand yet again!.

 

[Svartmetall]

Am I the onlyone with this feeling that PvErs want to reach high Realm Rank via PvE just to wtfpwn stuff in RvR?[/QUOTE}

Probably . The whole reasoning behind the idea of PvEers getting RAs from high-level PvE is that they don't want to RvR. If people want to RvR, then they'll RvR voluntarily and be quite happy getting their RAs that way. Like I've said before, give me 100 realm skill points to play with and you'd never see me in RvR again (except for Call To Arms situations). I don't like RvR, I don't give a damn about 'wtfpwning' in RvR, and if I could get RAs from high-level PvE I'd never have to feel forced to endure the sheer hell of un-fun that RvR is for me.

...

 

[Saggy]

Probably . The whole reasoning behind the idea of PvEers getting RAs from high-level PvE is that they don't want to RvR. If people want to RvR, then they'll RvR voluntarily and be quite happy getting their RAs that way. Like I've said before, give me 100 realm skill points to play with and you'd never see me in RvR again (except for Call To Arms situations). I don't like RvR, I don't give a damn about 'wtfpwning' in RvR, and if I could get RAs from high-level PvE I'd never have to feel forced to endure the sheer hell of un-fun that RvR is for me.

Then there shouldn't be any problems on having separate RA/MA lists for PvE/RvR, right? I'm all for giving RAs by PvE but I dont want it if people could "abuse" it to get better RvR-character.

 

[Svartmetall]

Then there shouldn't be any problems on having separate RA/MA lists for PvE/RvR, right? I'm all for giving RAs by PvE but I dont want it if people could "abuse" it to get better RvR-character.

In theory, no. For example Det is utterly worthless in PvE. And MOParry is much less useful in RvR than PvE.

...

 

[SeeN]

Although I wouldnt go so far as to give RP for mobs in frontiers, I agree that there should be some more benefit from XPing in frontier. The XP bonus simply isnt high enough.

To avoid that the only targets for solo assassins and archers are other assassins and archers, there should be a bigger bonus for taking the risk it is to XP in frontier.

 

[Z^^]

bloody hell give the pve kids eu coop server before they ruin the ordinary servers then, thay have already been farmed enough in rvr xDDddd

 

[Shike]

i think you hit the nail on the head there, prople from other realms want low people that are easy to kill with little effort and people from your own realm don't want you compeating with you, remember if you get killed quickly by the enemy then you are not killing enemies that they wish to kill or adding to there fights.

eh?

I dont even see how anyone can compare the difficulty in gettin RPs at a decent rate and PvE tbh. Mindless bashing of mobs and competing out on the field with likeminded people isnt even remotely close. PvEwhores simply have to accept the fact that since they dont do RvR they wont get RPs, plain and simple, if u want RPs, go RVR. RvRminded people still have to lvl to 50, grind thru bloody TOA and lvl artis even though they dont even want to.

Gettin RPs for bashing easy mindless AIcontrolled mobs is just silly, not because it would make pvewhores more competative in RVR once they decide to go there, but because it would be unfair to those that have RvRd up to a decent RR by killing enemies to the realm the proper way.

 

[Shike]

Although I wouldnt go so far as to give RP for mobs in frontiers, I agree that there should be some more benefit from XPing in frontier. The XP bonus simply isnt high enough.

To avoid that the only targets for solo assassins and archers are other assassins and archers, there should be a bigger bonus for taking the risk it is to XP in frontier.

yea, mincer+infil-duos would absolutely love that tbh. Sounds like a great idea

 

[Sarumancer]

Nobodys suggesting huge rewards, just a little perk here and there.

Theyre making the change so you get rps for keep takes/defence, which is a fine change. But a few rps here and there for taking out keep guards, perhaps the named guards or the "commander" guards would be good.

Heres a situation for you, youve a mixed group, you go out to take a keep. At the moment, the only motivation to keeptake is to get/retake DF or recover your keeps against a relic raid. Thats it. Quite often, tanks end up with naff all to do, support get bugger all to do and mages are bored silly blowing up bowmen or the odd plucky defender. People spend gold buying rams / wood etc etc, they put in the time to batter open doors, go up and kill the lord. What have they to show at the end? Um, not much really, they could be out 100G+ on the ram, then theres the durability loss on weapons and the sheer mind numbing boredom of sitting there whacking away.

Now, instead, say the guards were worth 1rp, the commanders 10 and the named 100 with the keep lord 250 (to each player). You have a "reward" for getting off your ass to go take keeps. This would encourage more people to come out to rvr / keep take, meaning more rvr conflict with bigger forces on all sides. It would also help lower levels along, as they can actually do something against guards to help out. A few hundred rps here and there is NOTHING to a player when theyre RR5 or above, but to a low rr char, even one starting their rvr career it might be enough to get MCL, or some determination.

Why is this such a good idea? Well, put it this way, going out to rvr at the moment, is walking over to a lion, forcing its head open then kicking it in the nuts. Youre going to get steamrollered by Bad Omen, Public Enemy, The BlackByrds, The Round Table, Severence, Eclipse, Celestius, HDS. Youre nothing but a big fat RP Cow, you simply cannot fight back as theyre experienced, superbly kitted and have RA's coming out of their ears. You wonder why more people dont RvR, that is exactly the reason, its completely unfun to run out and get trampled.

If people could pick up a few rp's from keep takes (they will, I know), on that sort of scale, theyd have more of a chance in rvr. All those screaming about fg vs fg and wanting "good rvr fights", which would you prefer, groups that can put up a fight, or groups you can steam roll with one hand tied behind your back and using 4dps wooden spoons? Ask yourself, do you want a good fight, or do you want your enemies to line up whilst going MOOOOO.

Those vehemently against earning rps for this sort of thing, evidently dont believe in "fighting chance".

I also think the "EPIC" zones in each realm need a complete reworking, the dragon in all realms is now a joke, even Hibs can drop theirs now. The layout is godawful, the drops are terrible, theres absolutely NO REASON to go there any more. Take them out, rework them, make new UNIQUE content for each realm, make the dragon loot -desirable- (and not just respecs), make him harder to kill, give him new tricks, make him worth some rps, make the whole area tricky to move through, but rewarding if you put the effort in.

 

[inviteme]

Nobodys suggesting huge rewards, just a little perk here and there.

Theyre making the change so you get rps for keep takes/defence, which is a fine change. But a few rps here and there for taking out keep guards, perhaps the named guards or the "commander" guards would be good.

Heres a situation for you, youve a mixed group, you go out to take a keep. At the moment, the only motivation to keeptake is to get/retake DF or recover your keeps against a relic raid. Thats it. Quite often, tanks end up with naff all to do, support get bugger all to do and mages are bored silly blowing up bowmen or the odd plucky defender. People spend gold buying rams / wood etc etc, they put in the time to batter open doors, go up and kill the lord. What have they to show at the end? Um, not much really, they could be out 100G+ on the ram, then theres the durability loss on weapons and the sheer mind numbing boredom of sitting there whacking away.

Now, instead, say the guards were worth 1rp, the commanders 10 and the named 100 with the keep lord 250 (to each player). You have a "reward" for getting off your ass to go take keeps. This would encourage more people to come out to rvr / keep take, meaning more rvr conflict with bigger forces on all sides. It would also help lower levels along, as they can actually do something against guards to help out. A few hundred rps here and there is NOTHING to a player when theyre RR5 or above, but to a low rr char, even one starting their rvr career it might be enough to get MCL, or some determination.

Why is this such a good idea? Well, put it this way, going out to rvr at the moment, is walking over to a lion, forcing its head open then kicking it in the nuts. Youre going to get steamrollered by Bad Omen, Public Enemy, The BlackByrds, The Round Table, Severence, Eclipse, Celestius, HDS. Youre nothing but a big fat RP Cow, you simply cannot fight back as theyre experienced, superbly kitted and have RA's coming out of their ears. You wonder why more people dont RvR, that is exactly the reason, its completely unfun to run out and get trampled.

If people could pick up a few rp's from keep takes (they will, I know), on that sort of scale, theyd have more of a chance in rvr. All those screaming about fg vs fg and wanting "good rvr fights", which would you prefer, groups that can put up a fight, or groups you can steam roll with one hand tied behind your back and using 4dps wooden spoons? Ask yourself, do you want a good fight, or do you want your enemies to line up whilst going MOOOOO.

Those vehemently against earning rps for this sort of thing, evidently dont believe in "fighting chance".

I also think the "EPIC" zones in each realm need a complete reworking, the dragon in all realms is now a joke, even Hibs can drop theirs now. The layout is godawful, the drops are terrible, theres absolutely NO REASON to go there any more. Take them out, rework them, make new UNIQUE content for each realm, make the dragon loot -desirable- (and not just respecs), make him harder to kill, give him new tricks, make him worth some rps, make the whole area tricky to move through, but rewarding if you put the effort in.

If you want the game to be "fair" on an individual level id say making it more zergfriendly is a better alternative; power gamers will allways be better at playing the game, the REAL problem for a n00b in RvR is the cumulative effect 8 powergamers achive. In a 200 vs 200 8 powergamers shifts the outcome very little.

 

[Svartmetall]

PvEwhores...

More flaming of PvE players by RvR players. I'm seeing a pattern build up here.

...simply have to accept the fact that since they dont do RvR they wont get RPs, plain and simple, if u want RPs, go RVR. RvRminded people still have to lvl to 50, grind thru bloody TOA and lvl artis even though they dont even want to.

Your 'argument' appears to be that since you personally hate PvE, PvE players should have a crappy time in RvR? Nice attitude.

...it would make pvewhores...

Even more juvenile flaming. I wonder what you feel so threatened by that you have to act like this?

...more competative in RVR once they decide to go there

sigh
The whole point is that PvE players don't enjoy RvR itself (just as you obvioulsy don't enjoy PvE). Give me 100 realm skill points and you'd never see me in RvR (except for Call To Arms situations during RRs ofc) again, because I simply don't enjoy it.
I don't care about RvR.
I don't care about 'pwning' other players.
I dont measure my peen, E or RL, by RR in a video game.

...

 

[Svartmetall]

bloody hell give the pve kids eu coop server before they ruin the ordinary servers then, thay have already been farmed enough in rvr xDDddd

Yes, give us a co-op server.

Why do you call PvE players 'kids'...? In my experience the most obnoxious people are the txt-speak yelling l337 gank kiddies; RvR seems to bring out the worst in players behaviourally. Go to VN Boards and compare the flaming and general childishness of the normal RvR boards to say, the atmosphere on the Gaheris board.

...

 

[Svartmetall]

If you want the game to be "fair" on an individual level id say making it more zergfriendly is a better alternative; power gamers will allways be better at playing the game, the REAL problem for a n00b in RvR is the cumulative effect 8 powergamers achive. In a 200 vs 200 8 powergamers shifts the outcome very little.

Thing is, zerging is no fun at all. Massive lagfest and 30 RPs per kill? Great, really rewarding. Then come back and get flamed by l337 little gank-kiddies going 'ahh but you zerged us, you have no skillz'.

sigh

The real problem with RvR is that you cannot have a level playing field - which is, in the long term, the only fun kind of playing field anyway - in a game with levels, RAs, MLs etc. 'Skill' is only part of the picture. Quake, where skill is the ONLY factor (unlike DAOC), is far less intimidating to new players than DAOC is...at least in Quake more skilled opponents don't also get bigger guns, heavier armour and special powerups you yourself can't have. No-one would play it if it was like that, but that's pretty much how DAOC RvR is now.
RvR is almost bound to suck at this point in the game for anyone who isn't already very high RR.

...

 

[inviteme]

More flaming of PvE players by RvR players. I'm seeing a pattern build up here.

Even more juvenile flaming. I wonder what you feel so threatened by that you have to act like this?

I don't care about RvR.
I don't care about 'pwning' other players.
I dont measure my peen, E or RL, by RR in a video game.

...

I guess you see the problem . I tried to measure this in a RP scale and it gave a strong reading towards doubble standards! Im willing to introduce a third possibility; People flame you because you are dumb, and they think it's fun to do so.

 

[inviteme]

Thing is, zerging is no fun at all. Massive lagfest and 30 RPs per kill? Great, really rewarding. Then come back and get flamed by l337 little gank-kiddies going 'ahh but you zerged us, you have no skillz'.

sigh

The real problem with RvR is that you cannot have a level playing field - which is, in the long term, the only fun kind of playing field anyway - in a game with levels, RAs, MLs etc. 'Skill' is only part of the picture. Quake, where skill is the ONLY factor (unlike DAOC), is far less intimidating to new players than DAOC is...at least in Quake more skilled opponents don't also get bigger guns, heavier armour and special powerups you yourself can't have. No-one would play it if it was like that, but that's pretty much how DAOC RvR is now.
RvR is almost bound to suck at this point in the game for anyone who isn't already very high RR.

...

Gah sorry for double post, work have rather limited support for forum debates.

You know that since you refer to high RR players as kids, morons and people with big e-peens(I hate whoever is behind this term) most people will reffer to your "camp" as PvE kids etc ? Anyway i figured i should point out all the things that are wrong in your post, so no one by accident think you are right .

Saying that quake is purely a game of skill and hence friendly to new players is wrong both as a thesis and it's assumptions. If it was a game of skill clearly the more experienced players whould be superior (like daoc), otherwise it whould be a game of luck (prederministic cases goes there aswell). Now as you prolly know a high skill element isn't what new/casual/dumb players are looking for in most games, to be able to compete you usually have to play alot.

In daoc you first have a few days time PvE, and PvE is impossible to fail (This is one of the reasons most competative people hate PvE:ers) then you have even more PvE to farm/ML. By this time you should have had atleast 10 days time to learn the game, sadly most of the time spent in PvE teaches you little of value in RvR. The good news is that with 10 days time you have had many chances to learn about it in forums, and thus can come abit prepaired. The only thing thats unfair in RvR is that you are too lazy/n00b/pve/wise/IRL/drunk to put down the same efforts as others, yet you expect to compete on a level playing field? My suggestion was to redesign the game in such a way that zergfights was possible, performancewise aswell as gameplaywise. The rewards is basicly the same, you have a realm instead of a group, you still get RP:s or similar bonuses and you still might save someone with a instaheal, but in no way will you being there affect the outcome.

 

[Shike]

More flaming of PvE players by RvR players. I'm seeing a pattern build up here.

Your 'argument' appears to be that since you personally hate PvE, PvE players should have a crappy time in RvR? Nice attitude.


Even more juvenile flaming. I wonder what you feel so threatened by that you have to act like this?

sigh
The whole point is that PvE players don't enjoy RvR itself (just as you obvioulsy don't enjoy PvE). Give me 100 realm skill points and you'd never see me in RvR (except for Call To Arms situations during RRs ofc) again, because I simply don't enjoy it.
I don't care about RvR.
I don't care about 'pwning' other players.
I dont measure my peen, E or RL, by RR in a video game.

...

what a load of bs... bla bla bla.. pvewhore = pvewhore.. call it what u want dude if it makes u feel better.. maybe you prefer to call it "Player that prefer PvE over RvR and dont like RvR but likes PvE".. its a pvewhore nomatter what label you put on it. Threatened, lol? What is there to be threatened from? I think you overestimate the POWER of the carebears tbh!...

find something more constructive to nag over man..

 

[Anastasia]

Saying that quake is purely a game of skill and hence friendly to new players is wrong both as a thesis and it's assumptions. If it was a game of skill clearly the more experienced players whould be superior (like daoc), otherwise it whould be a game of luck (prederministic cases goes there aswell). Now as you prolly know a high skill element isn't what new/casual/dumb players are looking for in most games, to be able to compete you usually have to play alot.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here, not that it's the nail you were aiming for. Because skill has so little to do with successful RvR the game has to reward more experienced players with boosted abilities, to mimic real Quake-like skill.

Without these boosted abilities RvR would be a game dominated more by the random number generator whirring away in the background than anything else. Which would obviously be shite.

These games are designed to get us, the players, to spend as much time as possible playing. What the developers of MMoG's have discovered (to their astonishment, I'm sure) is that this doesn't mean they have to deliver fun. They have to deliver a competitive treadmill that drip-feeds reward at the slowest possible rate to keep us addicted. If Mythic actually delivered a human skill-driven player-vs-player experience the powergamers with 300+ days /played would get pretty steamed up if new players were able to beat them through a combination of nothing more than brainpower and dexterity.

All this name-calling and chest-beating is getting really old. Chill the fuck out eh and tolerate a different viewpoint?

 

[Teh FnoRd]

All this name-calling and chest-beating is getting really old. Chill the fuck out eh and tolerate a different viewpoint?

Best thing said in this whole thread!

 

[Svartmetall]

You know that since you refer to high RR players as kids, morons and people with big e-peens

Show me where I call high RR players 'morons'. Come on. Show me. In case you've forgotten, you're the flamer here. You're the one whose post got deleted by a mod in my thread because of your little flame attack on margaret.

Saying that quake is purely a game of skill and hence friendly to new players is wrong both as a thesis and it's assumptions.

No, it's not. Quake 3 IS purely a game of skill. No levels, no RAs, no MLs. Totally level playing field and NO inequalities apart from those of skill.

If it was a game of skill clearly the more experienced players whould be superior

They are. The difference in Quake being that greater skill is all they possess, they don't have more hits/harder hitting weapons/special powerups etc, which would make the game zero fun for less experienced players.

...

 

[Svartmetall]

Chill the fuck out eh and tolerate a different viewpoint?

<thumbs-up icon>