New caster speed introduced in 1.75 and how it affects the main speed classes

[Brite]

I also can't type it seems after re-reading my own posts :touch:

Maybe its not minstrels that are op, just me :<
http://hbo.falun.se/~atos/hosting/mincerisweak.jpg

stop posting then! :eek2:

 

[Zebolt]

You aren't supposed to get away from a bard/minstrel/skald, hell thats why they've got speed 5 and are the primary speed classes.

Says who? Ever seen Mythic say: "You are not suppose to get away from a bard/ministrel/skald"?

They're wanted for their speed mainly (I'm not talking about the bard here), not cause the skald has 2 dd's that interrupt and the oh so uber damage (thane would do both better tbh and a thane adds more to the group than a skald if you don't count the speed, like bg and stuff).

Erm, ever looked at their RA table? And an extra Sojo with FZ and PS is hardly bad. Skalds dmg/healt table are higher than the Thanes. Plus they still have the fastest speed and are gonna be wanted for it ^^

And Gamah got a point there, the other point is when you solo post 1.75 as a speed class it's a must to have end pots with you. Cause a caster with end pots will outrun you if you ain't got end pots yourself. And like I said, RM+Shaman or Theurgist/Sorcerer+Paladin is perma speed 5.5

Well RM+Shaman or Theurg/Sorcerer+Paladin if any good will not lose to a solo ministrel/skald anyway (And the casual player very rarely has an end pot) and if the skald has a shaman with them too or the ministrel a paladin they still won't get outrun.

 

[Chronictank]

Says who? Ever seen Mythic say: "You are not suppose to get away from a bard/ministrel/skald"?

If you can keep up with a mincer what incentive is there at all to have a mincer in grp? you remove their whole point of being there

Erm, ever looked at their RA table? And an extra Sojo with FZ and PS is hardly bad. Skalds dmg/healt table are higher than the Thanes. Plus they still have the fastest speed and are gonna be wanted for it ^^

FZ nerfed to 15 min timer and will be purgable and skalds have access to the same
Banelord > Soj by a long way

Well RM+Shaman or Theurg/Sorcerer+Paladin if any good will not lose to a solo ministrel/skald anyway (And the casual player very rarely has an end pot) and if the skald has a shaman with them too or the ministrel a paladin they still won't get outrun.

Its not about solo... whole point of grping a mincer is because of the speed giving you a chance to get out of range and mez out of insta range, if you can run the same speed on sorc speed why have a low dps mincer over another caster/tank who hits a hell of alot harder

I dont even have a mincer and i can see how its gona fcuk them over

 

[Kahvi]

So many things a mincer can do in a rvr group:

'demezz
'stun
'dd
'many ways to interupt casters.. dd:s cant be bg:d, confuse
'insta AE pet mezz at rr 5 is very nice
'and ofc: single mezz, AE mezz and nice ra:s like sos and amelodie..

Maybe mincer players dont juse all the abilitys they got i try tho, but hard to get groups anyway.

 

[Awarkle]

minstrels do get a lot of utility like climb walls insta stun mezz ablative pets ok you cant run pets and speed but still

Lets just face facts how many of you have a personal bard/minstrel/skald bot to drive you around the pve zones ?

 

[Puppet]

minstrels do get a lot of utility like climb walls insta stun mezz ablative pets ok you cant run pets and speed but still

You can run speed and hold a pet no problem.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Mythic should increase mach 5 to mach 6, however they dont give a shit about minstrels and to a lesser extent skalds...they fuck our stealth up then make us useless in groups.

TY mythic

Theyre effectively negating minstrels (and skalds) from groups - in our case any of the main caster lines are just as useful - lets take a look at what i minstrel can really offer post 1.75:
Stealth - no use in groups mostly, bugger all use in solo where every other stealth class in the game has MoS access...

Damage - great we hit like a badly specced paladin once we reach rr5+ or sh wait no end chant no heal chant and no bodyguard.

ML paths - respectable but on high timers for all of the above now so unlikely to be up during a fight.

Stun - still good - 2 other alb classes outdo us vastly in the stun department though and damage in general.

DDs - Great, RUT long enough to be of no real use in in-fight interrupts.
Confuse - occasionally useful.

AoE mezz - Dont make me laugh, shitty radius and a cast time longer time itself.

Songs - Speed (redundant), Power (redundant with PoM), health regen (lol what a joke), single line mezz (like you can single line mezz an entire group or a charging tank).

SoS - good for bomb groups thats about it.
AM - Great but long RUT and wont keep anything up VS a 'train.

Just remove minstrels stealth (they almost have anyways), and give us either another form of cc or give us an option to spec shield/parry like skalds.I'd happily go 50 inst 39 slash rest (18ish) parry.

Any skalds care to give their opinion

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

So many things a mincer can do in a rvr group:

'demezz
'stun
'dd
'many ways to interupt casters.. dd:s cant be bg:d, confuse
'insta AE pet mezz at rr 5 is very nice
'and ofc: single mezz, AE mezz and nice ra:s like sos and amelodie..

Maybe mincer players dont juse all the abilitys they got i try tho, but hard to get groups anyway.

Have you ever played a minstrel - see my post above - forgot to mention demezz.Again, shitty cast time even with capped toa kit.
And yes puppet you can run speed and hold a pet if youre willing to twist constantly.If i wanted to press 2 buttons for hours on end i'd roll a BD or another fotm class like a Vamp :touch:

 

[Void959]

I don't see why everybody is focusing this on mistrels. Skalds have also suffered the same problems, which is lessenning their group utility to the point where they're rarely wanted.

 

[Puppet]

Theyre effectively negating minstrels (and skalds) from groups - in our case any of the main caster lines are just as useful - lets take a look at what i minstrel can really offer post 1.75:
Stealth - no use in groups mostly, bugger all use in solo where every other stealth class in the game has MoS access...

Pre-NF you had no other detection RA's like Assassins 'See Hidden' and Archers 'True Sight'. Now you still get more out of SPEC-ing stealth then archers; but MoS made that 'somehow less' for you. If minstrels had access to MoS it would be totally stupid. MoS on a groupclass = lol

Just remove minstrels stealth (they almost have anyways), and give us either another form of cc or give us an option to spec shield/parry like skalds.I'd happily go 50 inst 39 slash rest (18ish) parry.

Another form of CC? LOL you already got 2 forms of CC (like sorcs, theurgists, clerics (!)) where our main-CC (bard) only has 1 form. Minstrel has already more then our main CC


Remove stealth (and thus Safe-Fall, Climb-Walls, Distract) and get parry sounds good. Shield would be stupid; already way more shield in game in Albion then in Hib/Mid; please no more.


And your comment about a Vampiir being a 2 button-class... Well.... I suggest you go look over the Vampiir spec-lines and see what they use. I got more quickbars and qbinds then a typical minstrel.

Ofcourse minstrels will be less wanted in groups now; but parry spec wont help you in that department. Basically a class as versatile as a minstrel will always have watered-down offense (still better then wardens; mind you!) - and in Albion people want some other classes in a typical FG.

 

[Chronictank]

Ofcourse minstrels will be less wanted in groups now; but parry spec wont help you in that department. Basically a class as versatile as a minstrel will always have watered-down offense (still better then wardens; mind you!) - and in Albion people want some other classes in a typical FG.

Mincers are only invited for speed in general is the point people are making, there are alot of other class that do everything they do better. Remove speed and u have no need of a mincer since a banelord does a better job with interupts or a sorc spamming amnesia

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Pre-NF you had no other detection RA's like Assassins 'See Hidden' and Archers 'True Sight'. Now you still get more out of SPEC-ing stealth then archers; but MoS made that 'somehow less' for you. If minstrels had access to MoS it would be totally stupid. MoS on a groupclass = lol



Another form of CC? LOL you already got 2 forms of CC (like sorcs, theurgists, clerics (!)) where our main-CC (bard) only has 1 form. Minstrel has already more then our main CC


Remove stealth (and thus Safe-Fall, Climb-Walls, Distract) and get parry sounds good. Shield would be stupid; already way more shield in game in Albion then in Hib/Mid; please no more.


And your comment about a Vampiir being a 2 button-class... Well.... I suggest you go look over the Vampiir spec-lines and see what they use. I got more quickbars and qbinds then a typical minstrel.

Ofcourse minstrels will be less wanted in groups now; but parry spec wont help you in that department. Basically a class as versatile as a minstrel will always have watered-down offense (still better then wardens; mind you!) - and in Albion people want some other classes in a typical FG.

Im not really qualified to talk about skalds only played em in the bgs hence why only reffering to mincer - and it wont hurt the bard too badly as main cc'er/end regen.

And i was teasing about the vamp spine as a jibe for rolling a fotm

And im not asking for massive offence im just asking for some restoration of decent solo ability since the groups will be rarer.

And archers have camo which negates most anti-stealth ra's last time i looked?Granted its on a timer but its better than not having it at all.

 

[xtortionist]

its a fix to albion groups that they dont have to gimp themselves by taking a rogue class now i guess :kissit: all you minstrels can join the stealth zerg or reroll

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

its a fix to albion groups that they dont have to gimp themselves by taking a rogue class now i guess :kissit: all you minstrels can join the stealth zerg or reroll

uke:

oh im sorry youre on cama, forgot youre obliged to be a nob at least half the time

 

[Awarkle]

Bards Skalds and Minstrels bring much more to a group that just speed. if you really see those classes as speed 5 only then your missing out on some major abilitys in your group.

Ok skalds are a bit weaker than the other three but htey are damn handy for stopping people from running or interupting. Minstrels have a lot of utility from both pve and rvr standpoints.

obviously the changes are the difference between a good player and a average afk /stick leecher.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Bards Skalds and Minstrels bring much more to a group that just speed. if you really see those classes as speed 5 only then your missing out on some major abilitys in your group.

Ok skalds are a bit weaker than the other three but htey are damn handy for stopping people from running or interupting. Minstrels have a lot of utility from both pve and rvr standpoints.

obviously the changes are the difference between a good player and a average afk /stick leecher.

With the exception of our interrupts (which are ok) a sorc can do anything a mincer can in a group once the speed incerase somes. Not only that they can do it better and from longer range. Not accounting for MLs ofc but ML9 pet > Fz/Warguard.

 

[Thegreatest]

Shame to see this topic turned into a Minstrel vs Skald topic really, my intention was not to discuss which class is better (anyone knows that minstrels have more group-friendly utility than a Skald anyway). And about our resist chants, they're a joke...What do you want to run as we can't twist, you gonna keep speed on for the casters in your group, DA for the assist train, heal chant (which doesnt do anything at all in combat really, useless) for eh...just for the feeling there is 'something running that heals you' (but it doesn't do shit actually) or 1 of the uber resist chants? Anyway, my question still remains unanswered:

Why was there such need to increase the speed of the secundary speed classes? Did anyone whine about "how slow the caster speed is" actually? Haven't seen yet...So why did Mythic see an urge to increase caster speed chant?

 

[Kahvi]

Have you ever played a minstrel - see my post above - forgot to mention demezz.Again, shitty cast time even with capped toa kit.
And yes puppet you can run speed and hold a pet if youre willing to twist constantly.If i wanted to press 2 buttons for hours on end i'd roll a BD or another fotm class like a Vamp :touch:

Ty for input Evita.. and yes im have played a mincer, im rr8 atm.

 

[Void959]

Why was there such need to increase the speed of the secundary speed classes? Did anyone whine about "how slow the caster speed is" actually? Haven't seen yet...So why did Mythic see an urge to increase caster speed chant?

Thats what I can't understand either. IMO the speed increase was just another cheap way of trying to reduce game drag by quite literally speeding it up, and the failure to increase speeds for mincers/skalds/bards was purely an oversight, and not a deliberate nerf.

Hopefully now that many players of these classes - and their team leaders on VN boards - are bringing this to mythics attention, they will fix it in an upcoming patch and possibly the euro servers will miss out on the nerf entirely. But I wouldnt bank on it happening any time too soon.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Ty for input Evita.. and yes im have played a mincer, im rr8 atm.

Then you know what im talking about and the related problems, so why claim a bunch of our abilities that are somewhere between unusable and useless most of the time are useful. No offence intended earlier btw, caught me in a shitty mood.

 

[Gamah]

I think the point evita was making was that although we have a lot of utility theres loads of other classes that do the things we do only better.

 

[Zebolt]

If you can keep up with a mincer what incentive is there at all to have a mincer in grp? you remove their whole point of being there

Are you even reading the post? It's not the same speed it's still lower than mincer speed. So you can't keep up ^^

FZ nerfed to 15 min timer and will be purgable and skalds have access to the same
Banelord > Soj by a long way

Erm.. how many thane banelords do you know? lol xD

Its not about solo... whole point of grping a mincer is because of the speed giving you a chance to get out of range and mez out of insta range, if you can run the same speed on sorc speed why have a low dps mincer over another caster/tank who hits a hell of alot harder

Well you can't, the sorc speed will still be lower.. you reading the posts?

I dont even have a mincer and i can see how its gona fcuk them over

Kinda funny how you all crying about mincer will not be wanted in grps etc. How many other stealthers do you invite in grps? You often running with infils/scouts? I doubt it tbh..

 

[Gamah]

Kinda funny how you all crying about mincer will not be wanted in grps etc. How many other stealthers do you invite in grps? You often running with infils/scouts? I doubt it tbh..

How many other stealthers do you know with group based abilitys?

 

[Kahvi]

Then you know what im talking about and the related problems, so why claim a bunch of our abilities that are somewhere between unusable and useless most of the time are useful. No offence intended earlier btw, caught me in a shitty mood.

In your case Evita i think Graendel and other in your group want you in the group cause you are a good player and not a not a low rr sorc/damage to take up thet spot. I think you get groups if your a good player, no matter what class you are, well almost.... You made your own group to prove it... respect.
Ofc i feel the frustration to Evita, i just want to advertise the mincer not whine like most people do. Sick of reading about whines all the time, i think the mincer is OP solo. If you want to play in groups all the time roll a cleric.

 

[Zebolt]

How many other stealthers do you know with group based abilitys?

It's great for a stealther grp :>

And tbh I don't see why albs without a mincer whine. It's gonna make their realms ability to opt grp even better. You have allways whined about having the weakest grps and abilities spread over too many classes. And now when Mythic helps you with that you whine even more. I would be glad if I could change a mincer for a tank or a caster and run on allmost as good speed. But I guess nothing is good enough :worthy:

 

[Helme]

You can't really permasprint as alb anyway due to how your end works so mincerspeed will still be faster :<

 

[Zebolt]

You can't really permasprint as alb anyway due to how your end works so mincerspeed will still be faster :<

Ppl are focusing too much about that caster speed + sprint will be the same as mincer/skald/bard speed.. You can sprint with those speeds too if ppl didn't know ^^

 

[Damon_D]

Mythic should increase mach 5 to mach 6, however they dont give a shit about minstrels and to a lesser extent skalds...they fuck our stealth up then make us useless in groups.

TY mythic

Have they nerfed Mincers ???? WOOT WAY TO GO !!!!!!!

 

[vintervargen]

so you are whining that a solo skald/ministrel without endpots cannot escape from a caster+endregen duo?

 

[Thegreatest]

so you are whining that a solo skald/ministrel without endpots cannot escape from a caster+endregen duo?

It's a new trend here, that everyone starting a discussion is being seen as a whiner. No one have yet answered my question why this changed was needed tho. Guess it wasn't needed at all and does bring the groupability of the minstrel/skald in danger for nothing, right?