new anti radar technology coming in new frontiers !!

legar

Loyal Freddie
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May 19, 2004
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from the herald.

this was waaaaay due imo. good move.. IF IT WORKS offcourse.


=======
Got an important essay for you folks:

New Frontiers represents a clean, fresh beginning for realm versus realm combat in Dark Age of Camelot. Part of that new beginning means that we must continue our ongoing battle against the cheaters and hackers who seek to have an advantage over honest players in our new lands; over the honest players who are the vast, vast majority of our customer base.

As part of the New Frontiers development effort, we have developed new "hacker sensing" technology. Early tests indicate that we can identify hackers better than ever before, and at the same time with fewer hours of investigation. We’re very excited about this, as it will significantly speed up our banning process. We have always cared very much about getting cheaters out of the game, but the process was so time consuming that it frustrated both ourselves and our honest players. Now, our first New Frontiers bannings and suspensions will happen during the first week of launch.

On some message boards, a few people have posted that they believe they need to use cheat programs because "everyone" does. While our numbers don’t reflect this at all - our tests continue to indicate that only a small minority of our players cheat - we will still give those people a chance to jump off the bandwagon and stop cheating of their own free will. Here’s your notice: If you completely uninstall the programs now, you won’t have anything to worry about.

If someone doesn’t uninstall the cheat programs he depends on to stand a chance against good players, because he thinks this is just another typical pre-release press release, he’ll present the perfect chance for us to give our new technology a spin. We’re looking forward to banning even more players who feel that it is perfectly acceptable to cheat in our game. Mythic will gladly lose the small portion of its subscriber base that does not abide by the EULA in order to make the game experience even better for the vast majority of the players.

Although our new technology guarantees faster and more accurate investigations, we will still consider each case individually and take the action appropriate to each account. Just remember, our stated policy is, and has always been "one proven hack, one banned account". If we opt to give second chances, we can only hope that people take advantage of the chance to start fresh.

New Frontiers will be be great fun, and we want the great rewards to accrue to players who really are that good, as opposed to people that really are that sad. Thanks for playing, and we hope you all enjoy yourselves on launch day.

=========
 

legar

Loyal Freddie
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361
bah nm.. just saw this was quoted in the middle of another topic also :kissit:
 

Fana

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Just have to hope that GOA adapts the same technology (and will to use it) then.
 

Warlock

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Mythic said:
blah-blah-blah
Translation:
Mythic said:
We killed packet-sniffing radar, but we cant kill memory-reading radar.
We cant scan computer memory, bacause we are afraid that our customers will sue us.
So, we will continue to intimidate cheaters in hope that they will stop using radar.
This tactic didnt work last 100 bazilion of times, but we still hope.

Sad..... :(
 

Aussie

Banned
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Dec 26, 2003
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if they would care they would get more employees but that cost money . so basicly they said in that article our money is more important then cheaters. And all the rest from the article sounds more like bluff.
 

Methos

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Anti-hack tech is always a relief for normal players, however, it's always a matter of weeks, sometimes days, before the creators of cheat software work around it and creating new hacks.

The only way to guarantee an unhackable client is by making the client able to scan memory and HD for cheats and changing the detection program slightly every week with an auto-downloaded security patch and making the client unable to run if it's modified. However, this method of scanning HD often has legal implications.

I do wish that all current users of cheat software and radar get caught and permbanned.

In NF radar becomes obsolete anyway with use of the Warmap and the inherent Lagdar.
 

stubbe

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Warlock: wouldn't be as simple as to add a new line in one of the 30 agreements we have to accept every time we play? Something along the lines of: All your memory are belong to us! [ACCEPT]

If I trust them with my CC-number I feel pretty confident giving them access to reading the memory as well, if that's what it takes to get rid of cheaters.
 

Warlock

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stubbe said:
Warlock: wouldn't be as simple as to add a new line in one of the 30 agreements we have to accept every time we play? Something along the lines of: All your memory are belong to us! [ACCEPT]
It is not as simple as you said.
There are ppl who play from their work computers, from their university computers. There are also ppl who just plain paranoid about their privacy.
Even if we all agree that memory scanning is a necessary action to get rid of cheaters,
all if takes to ruin this necessary action is one guy who calls his lawer.
 

cougar

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Dec 23, 2003
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28
Warlock said:
It is not as simple as you said.
There are ppl who play from their work computers, from their university computers. There are also ppl who just plain paranoid about their privacy.
Even if we all agree that memory scanning is a necessary action to get rid of cheaters,
all if takes to ruin this necessary action is one guy who calls his lawer.

they dont have to click accept you know :p
 

popa

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672
if will be whit scan i dont play daoc , is my pc
if mythic get problem whit that GET OTHER SCRIPT yep daoc have a bad script any heard about that on ever quest or anarchy yes get cheat but baned 200 acc in few days and end of story
get a customer team 24/24 online and all fixed

any way u can start a cheat program after scan compleat
 

stubbe

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Warlock said:
It is not as simple as you said.
There are ppl who play from their work computers, from their university computers. There are also ppl who just plain paranoid about their privacy.
Even if we all agree that memory scanning is a necessary action to get rid of cheaters,
all if takes to ruin this necessary action is one guy who calls his lawer.
So basically what you're saying is that the reason a person can't agree to give Mythic access to their memory is because on a "public" computer they don't own the right to the content.

I still assume you could just add the line, if you agree to it, then it's on the user if it's not his content. Sort of like me selling you my neighbours house (which ofc isn't mine), assuming it's a reasonable price (a price that shouldn't have arroused your suspicion) you're not liable for being frauded.

popa said:
if will be whit scan i dont play daoc , is my pc
if mythic get problem whit that GET OTHER SCRIPT yep daoc have a bad script any head about that on ever quest or anarchy get a customer team 24/24 online and all fixed
They have your creditcard-information, if you don't trust them I suggest you cancel your subscription, withdraw all the money from the account and burn them to stay warm in a cave somewhere in the middle-east.
 

[e]

Fledgling Freddie
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Jan 9, 2004
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389
so there is still radar out there ? Wasnt 1.68 supposed to take care of that with some new kind of encryption or something ?

Tbh, I get less zerged after 1.68 so can only assume that they did something right...
 

Jpeg[LOD]

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Mar 4, 2004
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819
i hope this is true and it works......... ofc it could be a fake program they speaking about because no doubt many assholes will be scared of losing there chars/account and thus stop anyways :)
 

Flimgoblin

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1.68 apparently broke some of the radar stuff by adding encryption - there's still other radar programs that don't use packet sniffing and can get around it though.

I hope whatever they've done helps things :)
 

popa

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672
stubbe said:
So basically what you're saying is that the reason a person can't agree to give Mythic access to their memory is because on a "public" computer they don't own the right to the content.

I still assume you could just add the line, if you agree to it, then it's on the user if it's not his content. Sort of like me selling you my neighbours house (which ofc isn't mine), assuming it's a reasonable price (a price that shouldn't have arroused your suspicion) you're not liable for being frauded.


They have your creditcard-information, if you don't trust them I suggest you cancel your subscription, withdraw all the money from the account and burn them to stay warm in a cave somewhere in the middle-east.


btw the cc stuff maked by Wanadoo and u can make charge back
soo u agree too get scaned nice idea about freedom
i am free too put any stuf on my if other ppl are incopetent too make a good scrypt i pay too get a service no too get spy
 

Adari

Part of the furniture
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Warlock said:
...all if takes to ruin this necessary action is one guy who calls his lawer.

If it's in the CoC/EULA that you accept when playing, a lawyer cant do owt.
 

old.Sko

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265
Adari said:
If it's in the CoC/EULA that you accept when playing, a lawyer cant do owt.
lol and if they put into eula that they have right to come and shoot you down it will protect them from ending up in death row cell if they commit something like this ?
administrative acts such as eula cannot take precendence before more important laws such as constitution etc.
well i`m not expert on juridical questions, but that's what i was told by more experienced people.
 

Warlock

Fledgling Freddie
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Adari said:
If it's in the CoC/EULA that you accept when playing, a lawyer cant do owt.
Wrong.
If they write in CoC/EULA "By accepting this document you give us right to come and kill your dog" it doesnt mean they can actually do it. Even if it was written in size 100 red font and you clicked on Awesome-Big-Accept-Button.
There are laws above all CoC/EULA/etc crap.
I believe I heard something like this not so long ago. One company that run some MMORPG actually did memory scans to prevent cheating.
Lawers kicked the living shit out of this company.
 

stubbe

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old.Sko said:
lol and if they put into eula that they have right to come and shoot you down it will protect them from ending up in death row cell if they commit something like this ?
administrative acts such as eula cannot take precendence before more important laws such as constitution etc.
well i`m not expert on juridical questions, but that's what i was told by more experienced people.
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject just seems to me that a script that scans memory for specific ports/processes/commands to detect software which is in direct conflict with the interest of the game, with the consent(sp?) of the user wouldn't be a breach of your personal integrity. But then again, the yanks have a way of finding holes in these kinds of things, probably better not too take a chance and risk staying in version 1.69 :m00:
 

Gear

Can't get enough of FH
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stubbe said:
Warlock: wouldn't be as simple as to add a new line in one of the 30 agreements we have to accept every time we play? Something along the lines of: All your memory are belong to us! [ACCEPT]

If I trust them with my CC-number I feel pretty confident giving them access to reading the memory as well, if that's what it takes to get rid of cheaters.

Unlike your credit card number (in which case you are legally protected against missuse), legal implications cannot be overwriten by the click of a button. Regardless of any private agreement between persons, or between a person and a company, current law ALWAYS prevail.

Some rough examples: You can't agree to sell yourself, you can't agree to be killed etc.

PhD Candidate here btw :p
 

Tay

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stubbe said:
Warlock: wouldn't be as simple as to add a new line in one of the 30 agreements we have to accept every time we play? Something along the lines of: All your memory are belong to us! [ACCEPT]

If I trust them with my CC-number I feel pretty confident giving them access to reading the memory as well, if that's what it takes to get rid of cheaters.
I dont have a problem with it either, I want to have the choice though.

Hence I want to see it in the CoC/ToC then I can make a educated choice.
 

Gear

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Adari said:
If it's in the CoC/EULA that you accept when playing, a lawyer cant do owt.

Same as above. Lawyers can do way too many things!
 

sibanac

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stubbe said:
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject just seems to me that a script that scans memory for specific ports/processes/commands to detect software which is in direct conflict with the interest of the game, with the consent(sp?) of the user wouldn't be a breach of your personal integrity. But then again, the yanks have a way of finding holes in these kinds of things, probably better not too take a chance and risk staying in version 1.69 :m00:
If they burry it in some 13 page EULA that they know noone ever reads then its plain sneeky and nasty.
If they make a special popup clearly stating what it does then it is an acceptable way of doing it.

That beeing said, I dont want Daoc scanning my memmory outside its own allocated space, it has the potential of crashing other running programs, and generaly causing havoc.

As for scanning disks for aplications, I am not gonne wait till daoc is finished scanning 200 odd gigs off data.
Alot of data on my system is work related and confidencial, I am not gonne let some game scan it if i dont even let my virus scanner touch it.
 

old.Sko

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stubbe said:
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject just seems to me that a script that scans memory for specific ports/processes/commands to detect software which is in direct conflict with the interest of the game, with the consent(sp?) of the user wouldn't be a breach of your personal integrity. But then again, the yanks have a way of finding holes in these kinds of things, probably better not too take a chance and risk staying in version 1.69 :m00:
Fact is client should be considered compromised - unless hardware measures are used to protect your sofware. Its possible to make task difficult enough for the cracker so its just not worth the effort, other way around - implement server side checks. First way still leaves opportunity open for the determined person to break your security measures - as example full fledged daoc proxy defeats their new encryption scheme (and if they implement memory scanning that's what radar writers will do) - other way requires you to capture traffic sent/recieved from clients and develop data mining software to scan it for radar patterns. It will be bugged, will be unreliable, but at least will give some base to start with, where you can assign a person to watch behavior of the suspects and then make a decision.
 

Meduza

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Gear said:
Some rough examples: You can't agree to sell yourself, you can't agree to be killed etc.
U can in Holland if ur sick and old (i've heard)

Gear said:
PhD Candidate here btw :p
Show off...

;)
 

Gordonax

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sibanac said:
If they burry it in some 13 page EULA that they know noone ever reads then its plain sneeky and nasty.
If they make a special popup clearly stating what it does then it is an acceptable way of doing it.


Welcome to the merry world of contract law. IIRC (I did a course on contract law a loooong time ago), there are three conditions that can commonly be used to deem a contract invalid. The first is legality of the contract: the contract cannot have as its subject matter anything illegal. So for example, if I make a contract with Herbal to sell him 10 kilos of weed, it can't be enforced and is invalid (although he may send the boys round to "sort me out" :) )
The second is capacity of the parties: both parties have to be of age, not drunk or under duress, and the contract has to be represented correctly and not fraudulently.
The third and most often used condition is unconscionability: a contract cannot be grossly unfair to one party. So for example, if you have a contract with someone that says that if you are one day late with a payment, you will owe them £1 billion, that would be unconscionable.

In this case, and with a good lawyer (in the UK at least) you'd have three attack options. The first would be that scanning your memory would be a potential violation of the Data Protection or Computer Misuse Acts, but to be honest I think that would fail as a challenge. The second would be that memory scanning is grossly unfair, but again I think that would fail - it's simply testing to see if you are violating other parts of the CoC, and therefore would be fair.

The third and most likely attack would be that such a clause violated your right to privacy, enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights. However, I still think you'd need a very good lawyer (and a hungover judge who's desperate to get home early) to get anywhere with that one.
 

Gog

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Gordonax said:
The third and most likely attack would be that such a clause violated your right to privacy, enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights.

That would be a no-goer too I think. Mythic is a US company and therefore the ECHR wouldn't be enforcable as America hasn't signed the convention. There's probably something in US statute that's quite similar though.

Anyway, I hope Mythic have got something that will reduce cheating. Even if it is all hot air, at least a few people will be dissuaded from cheating which can only be a good thing.
 

Gordonax

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Gog said:
That would be a no-goer too I think. Mythic is a US company and therefore the ECHR wouldn't be enforcable as America hasn't signed the convention. There's probably something in US statute that's quite similar though.

Ahhh, but your contract is with Goa, not Mythic - hence Euro law is applicable.
 

Ging

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imo tag the ip of possible cheaters and my m8 "big Dave" to go round and kick the shit out of them.
 

behatch

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Its like most cheats around these days,you carnt stop it,but you can prevent it untill they patch it or remake it.. its sad but true :(
 

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