Games Neverwinter

[svartalf]

Massively.com reports on another Free-to-Play game.

Neverwinter tempts your lust for glory with its first teaser trailer

by Justin Olivetti

on Nov 30th 2011 9:00AM

Fantasy, Trailers, Video, Free-to-play


Like any good Dungeons & Dragons session, Neverwinter's maiden trailer begins in a fantasy tavern, where locals and adventurers are mingling and swapping stories. Everyone is curious about a pitched battle that happened the night before on a bridge, but only one mysterious figure is able to tell them the truth.

Hint: Die rolls out the wazoo.

While brief, this teaser trailer is our first glimpse into Cryptic's latest MMO offering, and while it doesn't go into game mechanics, it does show off the engine, the fighting effects, and even tantalizes with a bit of voice-over. But it's your opinion that truly matters, so hit the jump to see the full reel and let us know in the comments what you think!


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HnCF5yNVxhI

• Source: Neverwinter official site

Tags: cryptic, cryptic-studios, d-and-d, die-rolls, dnd, dungeons-and-dragons, f2p, free-to-play, neverwinter, tavern, teaser, teaser-trailer, trailer, video, vie-for-glory

 

[Mabs]

been watching this for about 18 months since it was first announced
glad it survived the cryptic-being-bought-out, for a while it was going to be cancelled

have high hopes for it

 

[svartalf]

Something:

PAX East 2012: Neverwinter discussion and impressions


by Eliot Lefebvre

on Apr 7th 2012 5:00PM

Fantasy, Classes, Game mechanics, New titles, Previews, Opinion, Free-to-play, Hands-on, First Impressions, Massively Event Coverage


Many words come to mind when you mention Dungeons & Dragons, but "action" is not usually one of them. So at first glance, Neverwinter might seem like a bit of an odd beast. The game is meant as an action-based MMORPG that takes place in the distant future of the beloved Neverwinter Nights series; it's being developed by Cryptic Studios and published by Perfect World Entertainment. While the game isn't yet in open testing, the early version was playable on the floor of PAX East, and we had a chance to sit down with Cryptic Studios to discuss the game's development.

I came to the show with no real expectations about the game beyond the fact that I knew the companies involved and was distantly aware of the game's development. I walked away more than a little impressed by what I had seen. However odd the collection of elements might seem, the game itself certainly piqued my interest. Neverwinter

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Lore-wise, Neverwintertakes place about a century after the previous installments in the franchise, after several convenient cataclysms have altered huge chunks of the world outside the city of Neverwinter -- and even inside the city limits. Players, as a result, will start at the center of the city, which serves as a common gathering area, and then move out from the core slowly while trying to help rebuild the city to its former glory. The artwork and design aesthetic is meant to be evocative of previous parts of the franchise as well as be unique to a given region. One of the areas we saw, for instance, was filled with orcs that had similar attack patterns; the next region out was full of fire elementals, which moved and behaved differently and inhabited a visually distinct zone. However, the orc-filled Tower District was still visibly part of the overall city, just on the outskirts.

Of course, you can't have a Neverwinter game without user-generated content. Cryptic is putting just as much effort into character customization as you find in other titles from the studio, and user-generated content is similarly being integrated from the ground up. The UGC system promises to be deeply integrated with the game as a whole. We were shown a preliminary version of the game's "landing page," which allows players to view trending player-made content, queue for dungeons, schedule events, and so forth. There was also talk of allowing players to follow favorite authors, subscribe to certain content feeds, and so on. Cryptic wants to build the community as a whole by spotlighting certain pieces of content worthy of play.

All of this custom generation is contradicted by the character development system, however. While the final class list has yet to be released, the classes are more finely divided from the usual Dungeons & Dragons setup. You don't just play a Wizard or a Rogue; you play a Control Wizard or a Stealth Rogue or an Archery Ranger or something similar. They're builds evocative of certain common playstyles with classes; your Control Wizard doesn't share the abilities of other types of Wizard.

More to the point, there's no pile of abilities to use at any given time. Players have access to a primary and secondary attack, two "special" attacks with short cooldowns, and an ability that has to be charged via Action Points before being unleashed. You also get one last Utility ability such as a quick dodge, a shield block, and so forth... and that's it.

It sounds anemic, and it is, but it also balances nicely with the game's design. This game plays fast, to the point that you really don't want to have more than a quintet of abilities to pick from. As you level, you gain new abilities to toss into the various slots, but you never wind up with more overall active abilities. In other words, you get options, but not more raw power.

All of this works, in the end. It creates a setup in which you pick and choose between relevant abilities in a limited setting. If you want to emphasize doing damage as a Control Wizard, you have more offensive abilities available, but you can also swap in more defensive and snaring options when you need to keep things locked down. You can customize based on patterns without penalty, which is definitely advantageous.

But that's all speculative. The real question is how the game actually plays.

When I played through the demo area -- a short run through a dungeon filled with the undead -- I played as a Control Wizard, complete with a crushing grasp ability and a snaring ray of frost. My utility ability allowed me to blink about with a short-range teleport, which worked quite intuitively as I double-tapped a direction. (I was later informed that it would also work with a keypress.)

The short and simple version is that it was just plain fun. Darting about with my mage and tossing magical orbs of frost at targets felt very intuitive, and despite having jumped in without a thorough introduction to gameplay, I very quickly figured out what I was doing. Dodges, jumps, and positioning all felt relevant and intuitive, and the environments looked spectacular.

And there was a definite strategic element. I could lock down enemies handily with my Ray of Frost, but it rooted me in place and prevented me from hitting other targets. My crowd-control and bigger attacks did major damage, but I couldn't button-mash them as needed, so I had to pick my targets with some care. Having four abilities in a regular rotation sounds like nothing, but in play, it meant that I had a few decisions to make that were all useful and interesting.

The encounter design helped as well. At first I was just dealing with lone skeletons and zombies milling about in the field, with the occasional archer thrown in for good measure. As I moved into the crypt, though, battles began to confine themselves to smaller areas, and larger enemies came into play, forcing me to change my tactics. The final boss of the encounter was tuned at just the right level. He wasn't an insurmountable challenge, but if I ignored him or his minions with impunity, I would get ripped to shreds.

Cryptic says that the game should be into beta sometime this year. Before I came to PAX, I really wouldn't have cared one way or the other, but now that I've actually played it, I'm looking forward to the release. This is one of those games that wound up coming more or less out of nowhere to impress me, and it's shaping up thus far to be a really fun game to jump in and play.

Massively's on the ground in Boston during the weekend of April 6-8, bringing you all the best news from PAX East 2012. Whether you're dying to know more about TERA or PlanetSide 2 or any MMO in between, we aim to have it covered!


Tags: action-mmo, alpha, beta, con, convention, cryptic, cryptic-studios, dnd, early-look, expo, f2p, fantasy, first-impressions, free-to-play, hands-on, impressions, neverwinter, pax, pax-2012, pax-east, pax-east-2012, penny-arcade-expo, perfect-world, perfect-world-entertainment, preview, previews, pwe, testing

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Interested in this. Will keep an eye out but won't get too excited until there's something substantial to show. Then possibly a full-on geek-out. Maybe.

 

[svartalf]

Interview...

Neverwinter (NW)

Cryptic Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Statusevelopment (est.rel 2012) | Puberfect World Entertainment
Distributionownload,Retail | Retail Price:n/a | Pay Type:Item Mall | Monthly Fee:n/a
Desktop Client | System Req:

| Out of date info? Let us know!

Neverwinter Interviews: Update Interview with Andy Velasquez

Neverwinter is a new MMO in development at Cryptic Studios and is one that many D&D fans are keeping their eye on. Cryptic has been fairly quiet lately so we wanted to know what was happening with Neverwinter. MMORPG.com's Bill Murphy caught up with Lead Producer Andy Velasquez to find out. Read on and then let us know what you think in the comments.

By William Murphy on November 14, 2011


MMORPG.com:
How has development been going on the game? What stage are you at right now?

Andy Velasquez:
Development recently underwent a big change as we switched from prepping for release in Q4 of 2011 to a launch date in 2012. We are currently back in full production for the game and this is pretty exciting for the team as we have an amazing base from which to expand our game from, a title that was, just a couple months ago, almost ready to ship.

MMORPG.com:
What would you say to classic old school D&D players about the game?

Andy Velasquez:
I'd tell them that they should be getting excited!

Many of the Neverwinter team have been long time D&D players or come directly from the Pen and Paper industry, so the D&D roots are being well cared for.

We also work very closely with Wizards of the Coast on everything we do; we have direct lines of communication with them for our art, design and marketing departments and we speak with them on a weekly basis. There has been a ton of crosspollination between our game and the other Neverwinter products put out by WoTC. A ton of effort is also being made to make sure that we produce an authentic D&D experience.

MMORPG.com:
What is it like to work with the Neverwinter IP? There is a lot of history there.

Andy Velasquez:
I really love the fantasy genre. Personally, I'm excited about having the opportunity to work with one of the biggest fantasy IP's out there. It's a tremendous honor and something we're privileged to take on.

One thing that is particularly challenging with the D&D IP, and even Neverwinter itself, is that it isn't just a single product from which we draw inspiration. Members of our team have really fond memories of the Great NWN games, but they also love the Drizzt novels and still others are incredibly invested in their own currently running 4E D&D campaigns. It is a unique challenge to manage all those expectations and channel that into a cohesive product we are set to deliver in 2012.

That being said, it is great fun working with this IP and I can't believe that we get to have "professional arguments" every day about topics such as the merits of Gnolls vs. Foulspawn as an encounter group for an early level adventure through the Graveyard of Neverwinter.






MMORPG.com:
How does the game cater to players who want to make their own instances or scenarios?



Andy Velasquez:
User Generated Content is a big part of the NWN franchise legacy and we are creating a system to continue that tradition in Neverwinter. The UGC toolset is called The Foundry and is being developed to allow players to quickly and easily create content like what they would experience in official Cryptic releases.

The Foundry editor itself, the content browser, the ability to review other user's custom content, and the ability to launch UGC content are all accessible from within the main Neverwinter client, in-game. So, players won't have to worry about maintaining a separate executable for content creation, or going to some forum to find out what the good content is, or trying to figure out where to save certain files to be able to play someone else's content. The Foundry is seamlessly integrated into the client and quests created with The Foundry can be seamlessly integrated into the world.

MMORPG.com:
Are you building in features for the game to add content once it has been released?

Andy Velasquez:
Absolutely. Yes. We plan on adding content and features to the game post-launch and we have been planning the game from the beginning to be able to grow past our initial launch in both breadth and depth. We are 100% committed to expanding and bettering our titles, always. The other teams here at Cryptic have made huge, sweeping changes to both Champions Online and Star Trek Online. Neverwinter will be no exception. We will support the game with everything we've got.

MMORPG.com:
What is your favorite part of working on Neverwinter?


Andy Velasquez:
I absolutely love getting to be a professional uber nerd.

Before working on the Neverwinter project I would look to my left and see my PHB for the 4E campaign I was in with my friends sitting on my desk and countdown the hours to our next session.

Now I can look to my left and see the PHB buried under the DM's Guide, Draconomicon and an open Monster Manual as I'm looking for the write-up on a Drow Arachnomancer to do some quick fact checking. Add that to the fun that is normal game development and you get a pretty happy producer.

MMORPG.com:
Why has the team decided to take Neverwinter from a CORPG format to a true MMO? And what does it ultimately mean for the game and The Foundry content and all of that? Is anything sacrificed?






Andy Velasquez:
The change from CORPG to a full action RPG F2P MMO is a change that just made sense for us. Perfect World wanted to go big. Expand everything. Do more. Do better. Take your time. Really blow it out. Pushing into 2012 allows us to make these changes. Transitioning into a full-featured action RPG, free-to-play MMO allows us to reach a whole new audience of people. Never underestimate barriers to entry. With a free client, anyone can play. Try it. Where's the harm? It's better for the game, better for us, better for D&D and infinitely better for fans and gamers. With Neverwinter, we're going to prove that F2P does not describe a type of gameplay - it only describes the fundamentals of a business model. We're going to deliver what could be the first AAA Western-developed action RPG MMO. No after-the-fact transitions. We're building it right from the ground up.

That being said, there is no sacrifice. Everything we had planned to do for the Foundry is going in. More than we ever had planned for the game is going in. If anything, focusing on a free-to-play experience pre-launch allows us to do more with the game and The Foundry than we had previously planned, as we have more time to make more environment kits, more monsters, more traps, more... everything.

Article By: William Murphy
Created On: November 14, 2011

More Neverwinter Features:
Neverwinter - Post-PAX InterviewInterview added on Monday May 07
Neverwinter - Cryptic's Dark Horse RisingPreview added on Monday April 09

More Interviews:
Neverwinter - Post-PAX InterviewInterview added on Monday May 07

 

[Mabs]

Want

 

[svartalf]

A 2012 turnaround... can something awesome be conjured so quickly?

Neverwinter releasing Q4 2012, opens French and German websites
by Justin Olivetti on May 9th 2012 3:30PMBetas, Fantasy, Launches, MMO industry, Free-to-play, Neverwinter0

Neverwinter was the unexpected surprise of PAX East for us, which is why we're psyched that itshould be in all our hot little hands by the end of the year. Perfect World announced that its upcoming Dungeons and Dragons MMO will launch globally in the fourth quarter of 2012.
As part of the global efforts, Perfect World has opened up French and German websites to cater to the diverse European playerbase. Each localized website is just as informative and media-packed as its English counterpart.
Cryptic Lead Producer Andy Velasquez is quite excited to be working on the project and anticipates players' delight when the game finally arrives: "As a fan of Dungeons and Dragons, it's a rewarding experience to develop Neverwinter and contribute to the lore of the franchise. We're taking calculated steps to ensure Neverwinter will captivate players with its immersive storylines and beautiful artwork while being a fast and fluid action game."
[Source: Perfect World Entertainment press release]

• More coverage: Neverwinter official site

Tags: action-mmo, Andy-Velasquez, beta, cryptic, cryptic-studios, dnd, dungeons-and-dragons, europe, european-website, f2p, fantasy, fourth-quarter, free-to-play, french, german, launch, launch-window, localization, neverwinter, pax, pax-east, pax-east-2012, perfect-world, perfect-world-entertainment, pwe, q4, website

 

[Ctuchik]

Guys, just keep in mind it's Cryptic that makes the game. The company behind Champions Online and Star Trek Online....

Take a good long look at both of those games and keep your expectations on a tight leash....

Cryptic is awesome at hyping their games, but for the love of god don't trust them...

In this case it's better to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised...

 

[svartalf]

New trailorz:

E3 2012: Explore the lore of Neverwinter in two new trailers
by MJ Guthrie on Jun 6th 2012 9:00AMFantasy, Trailers, Video, New titles, News items, Free-to-play, Neverwinter


Dungeons and Dragons fans who have long wished to see the the lands of that lore come to life are eagerly awaiting the release of Neverwinter, the upcoming MMO set in the Sword Coast and focusing on the Jewel of the North, the city of Neverwinter. Although fans will have to wait until the end of the year to play, they can get a glimpse of the game in two trailers just released by Perfect World Entertainment and Cryptic Studios.

The first video offers lore of the Vellosk peaks, sharing how area has fallen to shadow and one barbarian clan caught the attention of powerful warlords. The second clip is part two of the three-part "The Siege of Neverwinter" trailer series; where part one was truly a tease at under three-quarters or a minute, this next part shows more action, following a story of vengeance amid battle scenes.

Check out both clips after the break.

[Thanks to Paul for the tip!]




View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npfQoYDjiTo&feature=player_embedded


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhIJXvGs5Sk&feature=player_embedded





Tags: action-mmo, con, convention, convention-coverage, cryptic, cryptic-studios, dnd, e3, e3-2012, electronic-entertainment-expo, expo, f2p, fantasy, free-to-play, lore, neverwinter, perfect-world, perfect-world-entertainment, pwe, trailer, video

Share

 

[svartalf]

Combat...

E3 2012: Hands-on with Neverwinter combat
by Andrew Ross on Jun 7th 2012 12:00PMFantasy, Classes, Events, real-world, Game mechanics, Previews, PvP, PvE, Opinion, Free-to-play, Hands-on, Massively Hands-on, Massively Event Coverage, Dungeons, Neverwinter0


Neverwinter MMO. Action-oriented combat. Free to play. How perfect does that sound? Pretty perfect, which is probably why Perfect World Entertainment's handling it. In fact, Perfect World and Cryptic Studios are doing such a good job that some of the game's art and lore is being worked in as canon! Go on, you can use that as a talking point to get your friends to read this article at your next pen-and-paper Dungeons and Dragons game.

Massively's own Eliot Lefebvre took on the game at PAX, so follow on past the break and I'll try to work off of his observations based on my experience at this year's E3.

As Eliot previewed, the game gives you a basic attack, three regular moves, a dodge/block/utility move, and two "daily" moves (no, you can't just use them once a day, and this term may go away). It's not much, but to be honest, I find that, these days, I'd much rather have a few strong, meaningful, basic moves than an eight-button rotation. I could also dodge (in real-time, not because of a lucky dice roll), but the cooldown was at least 10 seconds, meaning it wasn't abusable. This gave the controls a feeling similar to the controls of Guild Wars 2, and probably partially due to the longer dodge timer, I didn't feel as all-powerful. While GW2 does have restrictions on dodging, it still gives melee characters the impression they can get away from most fights. And even though my character in the demo was buffed up a bit (we were doing the dungeon with only three people and no healer), I learned pretty quickly that the monsters in the dungeon hit a lot harder than the ones outside. Even in the alpha, there was a good sense of balance between not only the classes but the mobs versus the players. Nothing just rolled over and died.

Since the tanking position was taken, I played a Rogue character in our demo dungeon crawl, giving me stealth, albeit only for a few seconds. I had a sort of dagger throw, a high-damage melee attack, and a neat little ability by which I cloned myself and left the clone to taunt enemies while I was able to teleport behind them and start stabbing. I've got some action gaming under my belt, so the fights weren't terribly hard, but our experienced tank did die on the final boss as he was out of potions and we had no Cleric. Reading enemies to time dodges was a reasonable challenge, but I was a bit disappointed that I hadn't died. I had to ask the presenter how death worked, and it turns out to be fairly lenient, at least in theory. When you die, much as in GW2, you can call out to friends to help get you back on your feet, though you obviously won't be at full health. Your other option is to use a resurrection scroll on yourself, and yes, if it's in your inventory, you have to use it. The scrolls can resurrect you with varying amounts of health, depending on their power. If you're out of scrolls, though, you have to choose a new spawn location and run back.

The dungeon itself was intense. As you'd expect, there were traps (like saws coming of the the floors) and a secret passageway that I may or may not have gotten so excited about that I hit the lever to reveal it well before the presenter was ready to show us (sorry!). We had a good mix of mini-bosses and AoE swarms, which allowed our rather cocky Mage to shine. Loot's handled as in most MMOs coming out these days: Money is shared, greys tend to go to the physical looter (especially with chests, which I sadly never got to open due to constantly being in awe of my own shadows), and anything of value is rolled on. Still, it was nice to see money bags fly out of monsters and chests and disappear when I walked on them.

Speaking of nice touches, I did ask about a few things that sadly couldn't be answered quite yet. One is character customization. While you gain certain bonuses as you level up, the method of choosing these bonuses, activating them, and switching them around hasn't been finalized. I was told this is all still being worked out. I asked about non-combat entertainment, too, but was met with a knowing smile. I can't be alone in having a brother who played a gnome with a funny voice and penchant for getting into trouble before the group had set out for the real adventure, and I very much hope Cryptic realizes that those experiences are hard to replace in a non-pen-and-paper version of Dungeons and Dragons. Moreover, nothing new was said about The Foundry, Cryptic's game-spanning content-generation system that will allow players to create and share their own campaigns.

I also asked about PvP, and the simple answer was that it's still not planned for launch. Perfect World and Cryptic know that PvP players are picky, that there's a huge community for competitive combat and that it can be a lot of fun, but it's also a lot of work. A lot of thought is going into the PvP system, but it will have to wait for the completion of the PvE portion.

Finally, the cash shop. I was told it's being taken very seriously at the moment, but there are no details available on how it will work; the team aims to share more on the business model when it's ready for the public (and after checking with marketing, no doubt).

All in all, I enjoyed my time with the game and am looking forward to the next demo already!

Massively's on the ground in Los Angeles during the week of June 4-7, bringing you all the best news from E3 2012. We're covering everything from PlanetSide 2 and SWTOR and ArcheAge to RIFT's and LotRO's upcoming expansions, so stay tuned!



Tags: action-mmo, combat, con, convention, convention-coverage, cryptic, cryptic-studios, dnd, dungeon, e3, e3-2012, electronic-entertainment-expo, expo, f2p, fantasy, free-to-play, hands-on, neverwinter, perfect-world, perfect-world-entertainment, preview, previews, pvp, pwe, rogue, the-foundry

 

[Ctuchik]

In fact, Perfect World and Cryptic Studios are doing such a good job that some of the game's art and lore is being worked in as canon!

That actually shows a tad of promise...

I still expect Cryptic to botch it up but maybe not so bad...

 

[svartalf]

 

[Pertan]

Wow, it's like they butchered the Faerun lore and made a Michael Bay movie out of it. That does not look like D&D gameplay to me.

 

[Shagrat]

Am I the only person who is less than enthused by yet another fantasy themed mmo based around 5/10 man raids and boring as fuck chain killing of the same bosses over and over again?

CMON MMO developers, wheres the innovation

 

[svartalf]

Am I the only person who is less than enthused by yet another fantasy themed mmo based around 5/10 man raids and boring as fuck chain killing of the same bosses over and over again?

CMON MMO developers, wheres the innovation

It's like the millions raked in by drab asian grind titles is luring them away from any kind of interesting mechanics. It makes me wonder why none of them are amazed at how much attention GW2 is getting -
Executive A. - Creative, innovative systems?
Executive B. - Why dat poplar?
Executive A. - Me no know.
Executive B. - Go! Copy more Asian grind - dat make many bart, we be much rich!

I guess the only reason is that nobody wants to take any risks in this economic climate. I think they are in denial - whether they make an popular or shit, they'll still get sacked once it's made. The guy who cleans the cups gets kept on to do bugfixes. When they want an expansion, they outsource that on temp contract again. Sadly, they don't seem to understand that games should be supported properly - I think it's called "streamlining" or "efficiency" or something. Stupid capitalism!

Having said all of this, I like the fantasy genre, but I think it would be more interesting to remove magic and invisible-style stealth. Make stealth into an darkness-oriented thing where taking into effect different factors makes it more and more difficult to spot someone, for example:
are they sneaking instead of running or walking?
are they in dark corners instead of in lit areas?
are they in very light armour?
is that armour made of black material?
Of course, if someone walks over with a torch, they become much more visible. Surely this must be possible instead of magic stealth?

 

[Mabs]

Am I the only person who is less than enthused by yet another fantasy themed mmo based around 5/10 man raids and boring as fuck chain killing of the same bosses over and over again?

CMON MMO developers, wheres the innovation

aye, im well up for a good DnD game, but apparently this is going to fail aswell

 

[svartalf]

As far as I can tell, this could be any number of titles from the far east...

 

[Ctuchik]

Wow, it's like they butchered the Faerun lore and made a Michael Bay movie out of it. That does not look like D&D gameplay to me.

Apparently the game uses 4th edition rules but hell if i could see it...

 

[Ormorof]

Having said all of this, I like the fantasy genre, but I think it would be more interesting to remove magic and invisible-style stealth. Make stealth into an darkness-oriented thing where taking into effect different factors makes it more and more difficult to spot someone, for example:
are they sneaking instead of running or walking?
are they in dark corners instead of in lit areas?
are they in very light armour?
is that armour made of black material?
Of course, if someone walks over with a torch, they become much more visible. Surely this must be possible instead of magic stealth?

So Thief 3 style MMO? I would play that tbh

 

[Raven]

There is only so much innovation possible in fantasy MMOs. This will fall flat on it's face like the rest of them.

Give us a fallout MMO and I would be happy with that.

 

[svartalf]

There is only so much innovation possible in fantasy MMOs.

There is only so much of anything in anything, but seriously, nobody's really tried THAT much to be innovative. It's all about $$$, and innovative doesn't necessarily mean the same thing. People like familiarity.

For example... where is the ability to climb a rope? Or leave something on the floor? Anybody? Seems pretty basic.

There's a lot more that COULD be done for fantasy (or any genre), but they're not interested.

 

[Mabs]

There is only so much innovation possible in fantasy MMOs. This will fall flat on it's face like the rest of them.

Give us a fallout MMO and I would be happy with that.

no you wont
nobody will
it will get picked to death by various groups of people, be released to mediocre reception, and then fail / go F2P and people will bitch and moan about it

the "communty" is killing MMOs, then complaining about it afterwards, its pathetic, and yet you can watch it happen every time

 

[Raven]

Like what though? Kill this, kill that. Level up. Get gear. Kill more powerful stuff, run out of content. There is a reason why there hasn't been a long term successful MMO since WoW and that is the genre has run out of ideas. People who think X MMO is any different are fooling themselves. Once you have got past the levelling (which was first class) in SWTOR (for example) it is just another gear collection exercise but in space. Rift, Aoin, Warhammer, Conan etc etc, they are all the same but with a different interface.

While I enjoy WoW I have no particular affinity for the side I play (Horde) I couldn't give a tuppeny fuck about the lore. I only play it because I happen to be in a guild of people that I like and have been guilded with for 6-7 years now and we raid together, I like the mechanics of the raids but I couldn't really care less who is the latest bad guy or why.

In DAOC I cared very much about Hibernia, it felt like home and the players in it felt like a community, the land was well designed and it was never just a means to an end. As a player you were always returning to previous zones, either to travel through them or for supplies or even just because you felt like it.

Every recent MMO has had pointless, lazy environmental design. Every zone is the same tedious paint by numbers crapfest (including WoW) I couldn't give a fuck about the zones or what they have in them because the designers obviously don't care either, you are never in them long enough to give a shit. You do your 10 levels then move onto another equally drab zone, never to return unless alting.

MMOs need living, breathing, player driven zones. Not boring fields of soloers ignoring each other, killing 15 fairies or collecting 10 plants until they get to max level then having nothing to do.

WoW is the best at hiding the fact that it is totally without soul.

How many MMOs have you played for longer than 6 months recently?

 

[Shagrat]

completely agree with Raven's post, well put.

 

[svartalf]

Like what though? Kill this, kill that. Level up. Get gear. Kill more powerful stuff, run out of content.
While I enjoy WoW I have no particular affinity for the side I play (Horde) I couldn't give a tuppeny fuck about the lore.
[..]

MMOs need living, breathing, player driven zones. Not boring fields of soloers ignoring each other, killing 15 fairies or collecting 10 plants until they get to max level then having nothing to do.

I agree with a lot of your points, and would conclude that MMOs have become, by genre definition, soulless vacant games where mobs stand around and wait to be farmed for 10 fangs etc etc we all know the stereotypes. I was especially disappointed to discover that SWTOR had gone with the "aggro mobs standing around in small groups" formula. I feel this is the most dated of all MMO concepts. I think there's more to the problem that I have with MMOs than that, in particular the issue with lore that you bring up.

I think lore is a huge waste of time, but only in it's current form. Lore could be woven BY the players, rather than at or for them. As though they make the world instead of playing in a pre-made playground. I think that would help generate the type of (I hate the clichéd term, but here is it) realm-pride you describe. And this is why I keep my idea of a politically dynamic world close to heart and half-hope that someone copies it.

I wonder, though, how much of your realm-pride was down to DAoC being one of your first MMOs. People chilled out back then. Took it easy. Didn't feel the need to run around all the time doing things. They used to hang out and mess around. Maybe it's the community that has changed.

I would be interested to hear your views on GW2.

 

[Raven]

I won't be playing GW2 - For the simple reason that your enemy changes depending on some ranking system. For a PvP game you must have the same enemy. You build a relationship with both your realm mates and your enemy.
Despite never speaking to 95% of my opponents in DAOC I built a massive respect for some of them (and I hope it was reciprocated!) being a soloer that was very important, a mutual respect that meant we wouldn't be cuntish to each other and knew that if we came across each other fighting we would not "add" - however, we would use every tool at our disposal to win.

While we were enemies in the roleplaying sense of the game we understood that we had the same philosophy, we wanted to try ourselves against each other without outside assistance. Without wanting to get into the whole red its dead bullshit, we took what we wanted from the game and didn't care much for the instant gratification of zerging. I actually took great pride in Hibernia and would be one of the first heading to the relic keep when it was under attack (talking old frontiers here)

One of my greatest memories of DAOC was when the Albs were attacking one of our relics. Riding past Parth farm and all the level 15s asking what was happening. Then upon finding out, they were wishing us luck, cheering us on. It felt like it actually meant something, more than a random bunch of pixels, realm pride was at stake...it turned out the server crashed as the albs hit the doors but meh. The realm pulled together, 8v8'er, soloers, zergers. Everyone was at the relic keep and everyone had the same goal, to stop the Albs taking our relic.
The same with one of the relic takes, my guild (Pagan Death Cult - a pretty small, social guild) was tasked with putting the first rams on the enemy relic keep, we were worried about it for hours...would we fuck it up, would we even make it to the doors. In the end we did the job absolutely perfectly (I actually carried the ram and got it set up). I was massively proud of my guild mates then, we had done what we were asked to do and done it without fault, it was a massive confidence boost to everyone involved - it may seem small to a lot of people but we had played with each other for a long time. I joined the guild at level 8 and never left in all my years. I think I am now the only member left of PDC, I even took the guild to the US servers and made sure that it still lives...I have an alt that is a GM of PDC and until the servers close for good it will survive.

...anyway...The relic was taken and it was then smuggled through the realm wide instance (I forget it's name) while we hit the frontier gates to try and fool the enemy that we had the relic. We died horribly but managed to keep the enemy (Dirty mids!) occupied long enough for the relic to get back to Hibernia. That high lasted for weeks and for nothing more than a few more % damage.

You just don't get that any more.

I honestly believe if DAOC was polished up with a new engine, re-released and re-marketed and maybe a bit of work done on the PVE side, it would absolutely stamp on the opposition. No game since has given that sense of belonging.

 

[svartalf]

This is quite interesting...
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/08/17/mmo-blender-larrys-roleplay-sandbox/
Okay, it's about sandboxes (like DAoC's RvR). Regarding lore, he states that players should have the means to produce their own content. That's good, but what if that means was part of the game itself, rather than a mission/level/quest design program/tool? So the devs are making the game another layer higher than they would normally. They are hands off the finished product, and every server ends up with a different situation on it (if it's a multiserver game).

 

[Everz]

I won't be playing GW2 - For the simple reason that your enemy changes depending on some ranking system. For a PvP game you must have the same enemy. You build a relationship with both your realm mates and your enemy.
Despite never speaking to 95% of my opponents in DAOC I built a massive respect for some of them (and I hope it was reciprocated!) being a soloer that was very important, a mutual respect that meant we wouldn't be cuntish to each other and knew that if we came across each other fighting we would not "add" - however, we would use every tool at our disposal to win.

While we were enemies in the roleplaying sense of the game we understood that we had the same philosophy, we wanted to try ourselves against each other without outside assistance. Without wanting to get into the whole red its dead bullshit, we took what we wanted from the game and didn't care much for the instant gratification of zerging. I actually took great pride in Hibernia and would be one of the first heading to the relic keep when it was under attack (talking old frontiers here)

One of my greatest memories of DAOC was when the Albs were attacking one of our relics. Riding past Parth farm and all the level 15s asking what was happening. Then upon finding out, they were wishing us luck, cheering us on. It felt like it actually meant something, more than a random bunch of pixels, realm pride was at stake...it turned out the server crashed as the albs hit the doors but meh. The realm pulled together, 8v8'er, soloers, zergers. Everyone was at the relic keep and everyone had the same goal, to stop the Albs taking our relic.
The same with one of the relic takes, my guild (Pagan Death Cult - a pretty small, social guild) was tasked with putting the first rams on the enemy relic keep, we were worried about it for hours...would we fuck it up, would we even make it to the doors. In the end we did the job absolutely perfectly (I actually carried the ram and got it set up). I was massively proud of my guild mates then, we had done what we were asked to do and done it without fault, it was a massive confidence boost to everyone involved - it may seem small to a lot of people but we had played with each other for a long time. I joined the guild at level 8 and never left in all my years. I think I am now the only member left of PDC, I even took the guild to the US servers and made sure that it still lives...I have an alt that is a GM of PDC and until the servers close for good it will survive.

...anyway...The relic was taken and it was then smuggled through the realm wide instance (I forget it's name) while we hit the frontier gates to try and fool the enemy that we had the relic. We died horribly but managed to keep the enemy (Dirty mids!) occupied long enough for the relic to get back to Hibernia. That high lasted for weeks and for nothing more than a few more % damage.

You just don't get that any more.

I honestly believe if DAOC was polished up with a new engine, re-released and re-marketed and maybe a bit of work done on the PVE side, it would absolutely stamp on the opposition. No game since has given that sense of belonging.

I remember PDC very well, good bunch of people that were in there.. the like of Brack and such if memory serves?

I used to enjoy those aspects of DAoC and I don't think any game has replicated it since. I'm sure I remember that raid, was it not dropped at least once on the way down causing a mass panic ?

Alliance of Power was probably the best bunch of people I have ever had the experience of gaming with, great bunch though I didn't join the guild until I'd long been 50, but they welcomed me in and I never left since, still (the same as you) keep the guild name alive on Ywain. Just wish those old names would come back.. what I wouldn't give to be running a good ole small man again.

 

[- English -]

I'll be trying GW2 purely for the fact of trying something new, which I have been waiting for several months. I don't think it will or anything can compare to how DAOC was, and I can't see myself playing it for more than a few months casually. Uthgard gives an aspect of how DAOC was, which still no other game I have played does - I can log on, search, find a group and go exp together & meet people etc. Having RVR'd so much on different server types, the RVR on uthgard isn't really the selling point.

 

[Talivar]

Its strange tho, people say MMO games lack innovation yet barely anyone praised DDO (mentioned since neverwinter is D&D) itself, which did away with most of the things people have whined about here. Was it the lack of pvp that put so many off?