Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

[Pandemic]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by belth
No they weren't... They whined and whined and whined and got +10% more weapskill. Like hunters (~5% more).

eh ? no midgard is meant to be the melee realm and warrior is meant to be the best melee class of course warriors r meant to have a higher weapon skill than anyone else

heros and armsmen are not meant to be equal to a warrior

 

[BidAccount]

Well it makes a change arguing about tanks rather than assassins....

But shouldn't we be focussing on the main point - pointing out how overpowered savages are

(Hands up the tank who manages to hit for 1000k damage regularly?)

 

[ilienwyn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by Pandemic
eh ? no midgard is meant to be the melee realm and warrior is meant to be the best melee class of course warriors r meant to have a higher weapon skill than anyone else

heros and armsmen are not meant to be equal to a warrior

And armsman have a name that suggests that they are good at using weapon so why do they need double specc for something others take for a single specc? Give 2.5 points to us then imho



P.S.: Ding Talks too much! Yay!

 

[Pandemic]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by ilienwyn
And armsman have a name that suggests that they are good at using weapon so why do they need double specc for something others take for a single specc? Give 2.5 points to us then imho



P.S.: Ding Talks too much! Yay!

gratz and yes i always thought that was kinda weird myself

 

[dakeyras]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by Pandemic
eh ? no midgard is meant to be the melee realm and warrior is meant to be the best melee class of course warriors r meant to have a higher weapon skill than anyone else

heros and armsmen are not meant to be equal to a warrior

Someone else who cannot either grasp concepts or doesn't read the Mythic Grab Bag content.

Midgard are the melee realm because at the start of the game they had more melee-oriented characters than the other 2 realms. This in no way, ever, meant that any Mid class was meant to do more damage.

 

[old.anubis]

double spec for albs 140%
single spec for mids/hibs 125%

you want to trade 140% double for 125% single?
i want to trade 100 hps for 2.5x spec and dragonfang
so what?

play quake or something, the same weapon for all

 

[BidAccount]

Anubis - very misleading!!

140% v 125% is on styled only. On baseline damage levels are same - except albs pay twice as much to get it.

Was that a SB whine I detected?

 

[ilienwyn]

Originally posted by old.anubis
double spec for albs 140%
single spec for mids/hibs 125%

you want to trade 140% double for 125% single?
i want to trade 100 hps for 2.5x spec and dragonfang
so what?

play quake or something, the same weapon for all

140% and 125% as a cap. In average it doesn't have big difference in damage when actually using double specc points. Oh wait, give us a line that counts as dw and weapon at the same time, that could be good

 

[Pandemic]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by dakeyras
Someone else who cannot either grasp concepts or doesn't read the Mythic Grab Bag content.

Midgard are the melee realm because at the start of the game they had more melee-oriented characters than the other 2 realms. This in no way, ever, meant that any Mid class was meant to do more damage.

k thats news to me and i normally read the friday grab bag which one did it say warriors are not to be better in melee than heroes or armsmen ?

 

[ilienwyn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by Pandemic
k thats news to me and i normally read the friday grab bag which one did it say warriors are not to be better in melee than heroes or armsmen ?

and which Grab bag said that warriors should be better then?

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by dakeyras
Someone else who cannot either grasp concepts or doesn't read the Mythic Grab Bag content.

Midgard are the melee realm because at the start of the game they had more melee-oriented characters than the other 2 realms. This in no way, ever, meant that any Mid class was meant to do more damage.

thats true, but it was also partly the reason for giving warriors the extra weaonskill.

the other part to it, being warriros used to have no class defining abilities (moose / plate etc)

 

[Pandemic]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by ilienwyn
and which Grab bag said that warriors should be better then?

the game manual i think

 

[belth]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by Pandemic
k thats news to me and i normally read the friday grab bag which one did it say warriors are not to be better in melee than heroes or armsmen ?

It's news to around 99.9999% of the Mids too. Sad.

 

[ilienwyn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
thats true, but it was also partly the reason for giving warriors the extra weaonskill.

the other part to it, being warriros used to have no class defining abilities (moose / plate etc)

Can i exchange plate for chain + evade 1 + extra weaponskill then please? And what exactly is the class defining ability of armsman? Double points for specc and plate? Paladin has them too. Oh, double speccing pole. Got it now

 

[belth]

2 pages already, rofl.

Postcount=+1.

 

[belth]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by ilienwyn
Can i exchange plate for chain + evade 1 + extra weaponskill then please? And what exactly is the class defining ability of armsman? Double points for specc and plate? Paladin has them too. Oh, double speccing pole. Got it now

Armsmen class defining "ability" would propably be Polearms... Weak, Mythic, WEAK.

 

[Pandemic]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by belth
It's news to around 99.9999% of the Mids too. Sad.

yeah i still dont recall this friday grab bag care to post a link ? or was it just made up ?

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by ilienwyn
Can i exchange plate for chain + evade 1 + extra weaponskill then please? And what exactly is the class defining ability of armsman? Double points for specc and plate? Paladin has them too. Oh, double speccing pole. Got it now

any time u want.


deleate + reroll.

 

[old.anubis]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Anubis - very misleading!!

140% v 125% is on styled only. On baseline damage levels are same - except albs pay twice as much to get it.

so?
still you get something more for it
let it be 10% difference or 5%, still it's there isnt it?

Was that a SB whine I detected?

nope
used it as example

 

[ilienwyn]

Originally posted by belth
Armsmen class defining "ability" would propably be Polearms... Weak, Mythic, WEAK.

At least make poles work like LW or soething. Even give out one of the damage types, np.

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
any time u want.
delete + reroll.

I haven't done it so long won't do it now with 3 50s in account even if i get frustrated in rvr most of the times. And fyi if i rolled Mid i would be one more fotmer propably then denying i am a fotmer ofc

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by ilienwyn
At least make poles work like LW or soething. Even give out one of the damage types, np.



I haven't done it so long won't do it now with 3 50s in account even if i get frustrated in rvr most of the times. And fyi if i rolled Mid i would be one more fotmer propably then denying i am a fotmer ofc

then you can't wanna change your plate+poles for the extra WS and singlespeccing that much now can you

 

[Flimgoblin]

so much misinformation...
We'll compare berserker 2h to warrior since warriors get more weaponskill per spec point...

berserker with 50 spec in axe/sword/hammer will get a 35% increase in damage cap when wielding a 2h axe/sword/hammer.

Armsman with 50 spec in 2h will get a 35% increase in damage cap when wielding a 2h weapon. However their base damage (average swing damage) will be at a much lower average unless they have 50 spec in the base damage type too. (it works surprisingly like weaponskill does - weaponskill doens't affect the cap but will affect how close you get to cap on a particular target, same with base spec for 2h weapons)

In other words...

Given the same stats/weapon speed, berserker with 50 in axe wielding a 2h axe will do the same damage as an armsman specced 50 in two handed and 50 in slash, wielding a two handed weapon.

If you wish to compare styles - look up some growth rate charts. They're fairly comparable across the board apart from two reactional styles in polearm (defenders rage and revenge) which are quite nifty, about 10% more than the usual reactive/positionary styles.

This is the only difference.

Now if you were to compare a warrior with an armsman - the warrior would have 6% more damage on average, assuming you're not hitting the cap, thanks to the damage bonus.

 

[Pandemic]

Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

ur not seriously asking for a nerf on warriors and thanes?

rofl at that

 

[ilienwyn]

Re: Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

Originally posted by Pandemic
Re: Nerf Heros, champs and Mid melees!

ur not seriously asking for a nerf on warriors and thanes?

rofl at that

Well the thread was written in a rather amusing style i am sure. It's part of the usual: instead of giving my class something nerf the rest

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
so much misinformation...
We'll compare berserker 2h to warrior since warriors get more weaponskill per spec point...

berserker with 50 spec in axe/sword/hammer will get a 35% increase in damage cap when wielding a 2h axe/sword/hammer.

Armsman with 50 spec in 2h will get a 35% increase in damage cap when wielding a 2h weapon. However their base damage (average swing damage) will be at a much lower average unless they have 50 spec in the base damage type too. (it works surprisingly like weaponskill does - weaponskill doens't affect the cap but will affect how close you get to cap on a particular target, same with base spec for 2h weapons)

In other words...

Given the same stats/weapon speed, berserker with 50 in axe wielding a 2h axe will do the same damage as an armsman specced 50 in two handed and 50 in slash, wielding a two handed weapon.

If you wish to compare styles - look up some growth rate charts. They're fairly comparable across the board apart from two reactional styles in polearm (defenders rage and revenge) which are quite nifty, about 10% more than the usual reactive/positionary styles.

This is the only difference.

Now if you were to compare a warrior with an armsman - the warrior would have 6% more damage on average, assuming you're not hitting the cap, thanks to the damage bonus.

wasn't it stated earlier in the thread, that armsmen get 140% bonus dmg for speccing, and warriors/heros 125% (over 1h dmg)

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
wasn't it stated earlier in the thread, that armsmen get 140% bonus dmg for speccing, and warriors/heros 125% (over 1h dmg)

it was stated... and it's bollocks

(urban myth - mainly started because armsmen screenshots showed slower weapons with less resists hitting harder than faster 2h axes on more resistant targets - thrust resist was apparently a bitch to find in midgard pre-SC )

 

[ilienwyn]

If you consider the bonus weaponskill warriors have and the fact that double speccing works worse than intended (why not work better like some other feature damnit?!) They do the same damage in average...

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by ilienwyn
If you consider the bonus weaponskill warriors have and the fact that double speccing works worse than intended (why not work better like some other feature damnit?!) They do the same damage in average...

nope, a warrior will outdamage an armsman, given that both are fully specced in a 2h weapon.

oh and the warrior gets 50 extra levels of speccing to spend

but hey you get 7% absorb more! and 5% less evade...

(plate is better against multiple targets, evade is better against one or two targets when buffed - either way it's little difference)

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
nope, a warrior will outdamage an armsman, given that both are fully specced in a 2h weapon.

oh and the warrior gets 50 extra levels of speccing to spend

but hey you get 7% absorb more! and 5% less evade...

(plate is better against multiple targets, evade is better against one or two targets when buffed - either way it's little difference)

if your getting hit in 1fg v 1fg as a main tanks, the fight is alraedy at either 1 extreme or the other.


ur support is either all dead.
or the enemy is clueless.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
if your getting hit in 1fg v 1fg as a main tanks, the fight is alraedy at either 1 extreme or the other.


ur support is either all dead.
or the enemy is clueless.

exactly - so claiming plate is an advantage (not that it would be) is somewhat facetious.

So, it comes down to...

6% more base damage and a free 50 points in shield
or
erm..
?