Help My ex-colleague's found religion!

[Aoami]

One of my best friends is very active in Alpha Course and he's one of the happiest people you'll ever meet. Doesn't drink much, smoke or shag around but still manages to have a good time.

If it works for him, who gives a shit?

 

[DaGaffer]

Well they don't call it the opium of the masses for nothing...

 

[rynnor]

I'm not sure where everyone got the impression that finding religion has sorted him out from - wishfull thinking?

The fact is it hasnt helped and if anything he is even more confused and upset on the alpha program than before and I'm worried that when this goes tits up on him as looks basically certain that he'll be left in a bout of major depression.

I wasnt looking to debate the pro's and con's of religion here but I imagine even the most religious person would be worried by a man with a long history of mental health problems who suddenly decides to find religion.

I dont think mental health problems and unreal belief systems are a good mix frankly.

 

[nath]

If it's more than him being a bit depressed and he actually has mental health issues he needs to get that dealt with. I don't know how relevant my experience with my brother is going to be to him, but in this case things didn't get better until he got professional assistance. In some situations it really is a medical condition and things simply won't get better due to positive thinking or divine intervention.

 

[pez]

I'm not sure where everyone got the impression that finding religion has sorted him out from - wishfull thinking?

The fact is it hasnt helped and if anything he is even more confused and upset on the alpha program than before and I'm worried that when this goes tits up on him as looks basically certain that he'll be left in a bout of major depression.

I wasnt looking to debate the pro's and con's of religion here but I imagine even the most religious person would be worried by a man with a long history of mental health problems who suddenly decides to find religion.

I dont think mental health problems and unreal belief systems are a good mix frankly.

all you said was that he has found religion, has mental health issues and may or may not be taking medication for it.

Going from that, fair play to him for finding religion, whats that got to do with his taking or not taking of his medication?

Unless theres more you haven't mentioned it just sounds like you are assuming a hell of a lot.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I wasnt looking to debate the pro's and con's of religion here

Actually you did just that.

"Help, my friend found religion!" is like saying "help, my friend is gonna off himself!", like religion is a sickness or some such.

Religious people don't care when, why or how someone finds religion, usually they're just happy they did.

Now, if you said "help, my friend found religion and is now putting all his savings into church etc etc", then it's a different matter.

If he just found god and started praying, let it go and deal with the REAL issue and be a friend.

 

[Scouse]

Religion is a sickness...

 

[DaGaffer]

Religion is a sickness...

...I like to think of it as a meme virus.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Then again, all this atheist malarky seems like a trendy "i'm different" kind of thing so...to each their own

Like i've always said, atheism is just another religion.

All we need is someone to make money of it and whammo.

 

[Scouse]

Like i've always said, atheism is just another religion.

Yep. You do talk shit sometimes eh?

 

[DaGaffer]

Like i've always said, atheism is just another religion.

Here we go again.

 

[Ch3tan]

Toht... just. Why?

 

[Chilly]

cos hes a fucking TROLL. jazus.

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

if god exists why doesn't he give amputees their bits back

 

[TdC]

if the bits have gone to heaven then it must be quite freaky up there. and now there's the tip of tongue there too... o0 </child>

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yep. You do talk shit sometimes eh?

Here we go again.

Toht... just. Why?

I'm not going into it any more! You lot are so f'cking bore at times.

It's my opinion on atheism, meme religion replacer, that's it.

It seems it's a-ok to bash religion, but forbid anyone from challenging the oh so precious anti-religion...

 

[Ch3tan]

You are assuming that every atheist has the same view to enable someone to take advantage of those views. That is a huge assumption.

 

[DaGaffer]

You are assuming that every atheist has the same view to enable someone to take advantage of those views. That is a huge assumption.

Nooooo. Ch3t, stop, you're getting dragged in. Its madness. MADNESS I TELLS YA! You'll be down the troll hole and in a pit of subject changes and evasion before you know it!

 

[nath]

It seems it's a-ok to bash religion, but forbid anyone from challenging the oh so precious anti-religion...

You don't seem to understand atheism. It's absolutely OK to challenge it - that's the idea, we should all challenge our beliefs, nothing should be above scrutiny. The thing is, atheism stands up to scrutiny - religion, not so much. It always ends with "well I choose to believe" which is just a total cop out.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You are assuming that every atheist has the same view to enable someone to take advantage of those views. That is a huge assumption.

And this differs how from calling religion a decease? Or that all religious people are XYZ?

You don't seem to understand atheism. It's absolutely OK to challenge it - that's the idea, we should all challenge our beliefs, nothing should be above scrutiny. The thing is, atheism stands up to scrutiny - religion, not so much. It always ends with "well I choose to believe" which is just a total cop out.

Yes, challenging went down very well, as you can see from above. Hypocritical crap, judge yet not be judged etc. Atheists(and such) are always shouting "NOOO" at religion, but when you dare say anything against it...well..look above.


Different belief(yes it is, way of life, belief system, or there lack of), same bull, and that's where i'll leave it.

Just to clarify, i have no problem with atheists in general, just the converters who spout "religion is bull" or "spaghetti monster" at any given chance. Zealots, religious nutters, same bunch.

 

[nath]

Yes, challenging went down very well, as you can see from above. Hypocritical crap, judge least not be judged etc. Atheists(and such) are always shouting "NOOO" at religion, but when you dare say anything against it...well..look above.


Different belief(yes it is, way of life, belief system, or there lack of), same bull, and that's where i'll leave it.

I'm an atheist - I'm sitting here waiting to be challenged and you're copping out because one other person said something you didn't appreciate? That's weak.

It's not the same as religion, it's not a belief system (it is, however, a lack of one). If you don't like to discuss religion/atheism, that's fine, but don't act like it can't be done.

edit in response to your edit: That's essentially cultural relativism, every opinion is valid. That's incorrect, plus it's a crappy religious tactic to claim that speaking out against silly beliefs is being a zealot. It's totally fine to criticise it and if you can't defend your own belief that's your problem. If you don't *want* to defend it, that's fine.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm an atheist - I'm sitting here waiting to be challenged and you're copping out because one other person said something you didn't appreciate? That's weak.

It's not the same as religion, it's not a belief system (it is, however, a lack of one). If you don't like to discuss religion/atheism, that's fine, but don't act like it can't be done.

edit in response to your edit: That's essentially cultural relativism, every opinion is valid. That's incorrect, plus it's a crappy religious tactic to claim that speaking out against silly beliefs is being a zealot. It's totally fine to criticise it and if you can't defend your own belief that's your problem. If you don't *want* to defend it, that's fine.

I'd be glad to discuss it, but it's not about your willingness or my willingness to discuss it, it's about the outright moronic way i was attacked the moment i said anything wrong about atheism. You can't claim that ALL atheists are like you, since evidently, they are not. As shown here. It's not a cop-out, it proved a point i was making. Atheists, religious folk, same deal with exceptions. Atheists use the zealot term as loosely as i did here.

You may be different, but you're part of it, and as it SEEMS, on these forums if you're part of something, you're part of the generic misconception of it.

Not all religious people are X, not all atheists are Z and not everything is Y. Simple point.

And what on earth religious is there about saying i don't like people preaching or trying to convert someone? That's what "there's no god" is, same as "jesus saves".

I'm also not acting like it can't be done, actually quite the contrary, people were telling me to absically shut up the moment i started on it.

 

[nath]

First of all, you can't generalise about people based on their lack of belief. However, one thing that links all religious people is the fact that they actually believe in something. I'll reiterate, atheism isn't a belief, it's not a way of life it's a LACK of a belief.

And what on earth religious is there about saying i don't like people preaching or trying to convert someone? That's what "there's no god" is, same as "jesus saves".

It's not the same though. Are you against education? Schools? There's nothing but people saying "this is the way the world works" in science classes across the world. If you're OK with people being taught science, I have to assume the reason you don't like people trying to "preach" atheism is that it makes you uncomfortable. Religion has had it's time, there's no place for it now - being religious demonstrates a willingness to turn a blind eye to logic and facts and believe in something that has no basis in reality. In my opinion this is a pretty dodgy thing in this day and age, and it's well and good that people are trying to educate others about how silly it is.

Also, I'm anticipating an attack on atheism following this in mind but that's just about as valid as me having a go at some Christian for the crusades. I'm not going to hold any religious folks accountable for shit that other religious folk have done, but I'm damn sure going to point out the absurdness of their belief (if they're happy to discuss it).

Edit: Toh, lets not fuck this thread over more - it's a bit out of order as rynnor was asking quite a sensitive question. Lets continue here.

 

[Scouse]

Toht, I've PM'ed you my opinion (rather than hijack another thread arguing with you). Whack it back if you like, I'll continue if you think it's got merit....

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

Whack it back if you like, I'll continue if you think it's got merit....

oh err missus

 

[yaruar]

Well they don't call it the opium of the masses for nothing...

Ahh, how often is that phrase given completely out of context.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"

 

[Tom]

Can someone please fix the fucking punctuation in this thread's title?

 

[rynnor]

Unless theres more you haven't mentioned it just sounds like you are assuming a hell of a lot.

Yeah theres tons but it wouldnt seem right to post it all - suffice to say he writes it all in his blog almost daily and hes adding stuff on twitter every couple of hours.

I'm a little suprised at where this thread has gone but for the record I dont think religion has affected him either positively or negatively I just think hes messed up at the moment but that such a radical shift in his life is on the lines of a cry for help.

I do have religious friends - if he had naturally come to religion then if it made him happy I wouldnt worry about it.

However from his blog it seems he's looking for religion to magically fix all his problems which doesnt sound healthy.

 

[Dukat]

It's none of your business if he's become religeous. If he beleives in it what gives you the right to say he's wrong?

100% agree.

Some of the replies in this post come over as very condescending. How about this, I believe in santa, got a problem with that? Go on, roll your eyes and tell me about how its impossible for him to deliever presents to everyone in the world in just one night, I DONT GIVE A SHIT.

Its what I believe and no one, not you, not your mum and not even your pet badger named stuart has the right to come in here telling me I'm wrong to believe in it.

So what if I'm using my belief in Santa as a "crutch"? If my belief that being good all year round will get me good things at christmas then why is it such a damned bad thing? It might well be an illusion generated just to make me be good all year, but if it works and it keeps me away from things like Drugs, Cigarettes and World of Warcraft then where is the problem? Its what I believe in.

Again, sure, if I go too far and believe that relying on anything but gifts from santa, or whatever, then tell me, but just the belief to keep me going does no harm at all.

When I start preaching to you about Santa and telling you to turn to Santa, then fine, but until that time be happy for me.

Atheist elitism and preaching is sometimes just as sickening as that of religeous people.

Belief is important, just watch Serenity if you don't agree, and if that doesn't change your mind, then what about the fact that my belief makes me do the right thing - it teaches me to be a good samaritan, to help those who need helping, and to generally do what I can.

 

[nath]

Its what I believe and no one, not you, not your mum and not even your pet badger named stuart has the right to come in here telling me I'm wrong to believe in it.

I completely disagree - all belief can and should be questioned. However, rynnor has said his wording was not entirely correct and has clarified his point. If you want to discuss your post more I suggest going here. Plenty of atheist elitists there for you to disagree with .