M
matax
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- #31
LOL Fingoniel - isn't that what it's about after all
LOL Fingoniel - isn't that what it's about after all
O
old.Gad
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- #32
I have to agree with Armolas. In Hibernia, the perfect base for any group is a warden a bard and a druid... throw in 3 tanks and a couple of nukers and you have a group that can get 70 - 100+ million XP per pull with almost no downtime.
You have 3 rezzers just in case it all gors pear shaped, which, if everyone know what they are doing, it won't. I have been in some amazing groups with this format, and the XP can come in incredibly fast.
One the other hand I have heard that there is a shortage of healers in Midgard, and it isnt too unusual to see a group of trolls all laying the smack down on a mob desperately trying to kill it before it can kill one of them, or before it cries for help. Doesn't seem all that great to me.
Could the problem perhaps be a lack of decent healers in Albion? They are so enamoured at their smiting powers, they forget to heal, or are just waiting for the other cleric to do it? I am sure I heard somewhere that mythic have been giving rejuve clerics bonus after bonus after bonus because the smite specced cleric is so effective no-one wants to heal. And they still complain!
Come to Hibernia. We'll keep your health up
)
You have 3 rezzers just in case it all gors pear shaped, which, if everyone know what they are doing, it won't. I have been in some amazing groups with this format, and the XP can come in incredibly fast.
One the other hand I have heard that there is a shortage of healers in Midgard, and it isnt too unusual to see a group of trolls all laying the smack down on a mob desperately trying to kill it before it can kill one of them, or before it cries for help. Doesn't seem all that great to me.
Could the problem perhaps be a lack of decent healers in Albion? They are so enamoured at their smiting powers, they forget to heal, or are just waiting for the other cleric to do it? I am sure I heard somewhere that mythic have been giving rejuve clerics bonus after bonus after bonus because the smite specced cleric is so effective no-one wants to heal. And they still complain!
Come to Hibernia. We'll keep your health up
)
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old.Brutallus
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- #33
small heals!
Cohannyn, Vell,
I have tried group splitting: half me, half another Cleric, and it worked quite well. But I like very much Vell's advice with lesser heals + switching to stronger ones "in emergency". thanks!
Actually I always try to use as little heals as possible, cause of aggro. But never asked for it in 2+ healers grp. Simple & probably works well. Will suggest it next time.
> I think the only person who mentioned running was Brutallus
> and I read his post as meaning get out of (run away from) the
> group, not run away from the mobs
exactly markm
sorry guys for my english if not perfect
Cohannyn, Vell,
I have tried group splitting: half me, half another Cleric, and it worked quite well. But I like very much Vell's advice with lesser heals + switching to stronger ones "in emergency". thanks!
Actually I always try to use as little heals as possible, cause of aggro. But never asked for it in 2+ healers grp. Simple & probably works well. Will suggest it next time.
> I think the only person who mentioned running was Brutallus
> and I read his post as meaning get out of (run away from) the
> group, not run away from the mobs
exactly markm
sorry guys for my english if not perfect
O
old.Freda
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- #34
Ok here's the way I work when I'm grouped with another druid.... We druids PM each other and discuss which main tank we're gonna heal and then share the rest of the group as and when needed. If one druid is having to overly heal there main subject then the other steps in to help for 2 reasons
1) It stops them from getting aggro through chain healing
2) You don't leave them manaless and you feeling like a total leech!
Most of the druids and healers I have grouped with have done this and it works out well with little to no deaths. Although rushing the siabra queen was a quick ticket back to connla but man was it fun!
I also have a cleric on pry and must admit that it's a dangerous thing to give a healer an ability to solo yellows You tend to smite far more than heal. By the time you realise things are going bad for your tank your mana is too low to be of any help. So as a cleric you have to decide exactly what role you play in the group before any pulling is done.
I dislike grouping unless I have another healer there beside me, regardless of class. Although a mentalist should NEVER be relied on to be a primary healer! It's not there specialty so don't abuse the fact that they can.
Freda
1) It stops them from getting aggro through chain healing
2) You don't leave them manaless and you feeling like a total leech!
Most of the druids and healers I have grouped with have done this and it works out well with little to no deaths. Although rushing the siabra queen was a quick ticket back to connla but man was it fun!
I also have a cleric on pry and must admit that it's a dangerous thing to give a healer an ability to solo yellows
You tend to smite far more than heal. By the time you realise things are going bad for your tank your mana is too low to be of any help. So as a cleric you have to decide exactly what role you play in the group before any pulling is done.I dislike grouping unless I have another healer there beside me, regardless of class. Although a mentalist should NEVER be relied on to be a primary healer! It's not there specialty so don't abuse the fact that they can.
Freda
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old.VooVoo
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- #35
Sorry i really have to laugh at this 'More than 2 Healers is bad'
I'm a level 33 Druid and over the weekend i've had the most fun on Coruscating Mines Dungeon in Bri leith. I went there looking for a group, I found a group willing to take me on, this group had
2 Heros
2 Druids
1 Eldritch
1 Mentalist
I joined and this put us up to 3 Druids.
We did some Great XP with little down time. Then another Tank joined us and XP still came thick and fast, at this point we decided to Head to the Pit (bottom of dungeon) which is actually harder to get to than actually fighting down there.
But unfortunatly we lost a Tank (had to Log) and guess what we picked up to replace just before heading to Pit..... Yes another Druid!
so our goup had now 4 Druids, ok some may call this over the top, but hell it didn't half work out Excellent.
with 4 healers you have 2 to concentrate on the tanks and the other 2 as back up.
As a major healer myself i always welcome backup healers, it help relief the pressure and causes less downtime. But as people who have grouped with me alot will know, i know my limits as a Druid and won't go into fights i know i can't handle.
So where people get this Idea that more than 2 healers is bad is rubbish. i got some of hte Best XP i've had in 3 weeks because of that grouping. and everyone got at least a level out of it!! (and like me most were only 2 or 3 bubs into there current level)
P.S the level Range of group if your interested was Top person was level 37 and lowest was me 32 (at the time)
I'm a level 33 Druid and over the weekend i've had the most fun on Coruscating Mines Dungeon in Bri leith. I went there looking for a group, I found a group willing to take me on, this group had
2 Heros
2 Druids
1 Eldritch
1 Mentalist
I joined and this put us up to 3 Druids.
We did some Great XP with little down time. Then another Tank joined us and XP still came thick and fast, at this point we decided to Head to the Pit (bottom of dungeon) which is actually harder to get to than actually fighting down there.
But unfortunatly we lost a Tank (had to Log) and guess what we picked up to replace just before heading to Pit..... Yes another Druid!
so our goup had now 4 Druids, ok some may call this over the top, but hell it didn't half work out Excellent.
with 4 healers you have 2 to concentrate on the tanks and the other 2 as back up.
As a major healer myself i always welcome backup healers, it help relief the pressure and causes less downtime. But as people who have grouped with me alot will know, i know my limits as a Druid and won't go into fights i know i can't handle.
So where people get this Idea that more than 2 healers is bad is rubbish. i got some of hte Best XP i've had in 3 weeks because of that grouping. and everyone got at least a level out of it!! (and like me most were only 2 or 3 bubs into there current level)
P.S the level Range of group if your interested was Top person was level 37 and lowest was me 32 (at the time)
S
SFXman
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- #36
It is very strange, but this is so true... if you run you will most likely die and if you stay you might just live. Which sounds like a better option
In these situations I am the one shouting out all the things to do... might sound like a bitch when I do so but it seems to work and usually the group will survive. I am also the one who is nearly suiciding by taunting various adds onto myself just to save the healers etc. since (unfortunately) many don't quite grasp the game mechanics, seems very common on Albion/Prydwen in groups that you just find somewhere along the road.
G
Galatea
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- #37
nonononono
Anyone reading my post thinking i was slating the fact that i died with 3 three clerics in the group (twice btw) is wrong.
I just mentioned that it was a funny story, albiet a little short
:touch: <---- ooooooh, rejuv cleric...
Anyone reading my post thinking i was slating the fact that i died with 3 three clerics in the group (twice btw) is wrong.
I just mentioned that it was a funny story, albiet a little short
:touch: <---- ooooooh, rejuv cleric...
I
infozwerg
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- #38
anyone grouping in albion before lvl 25 is asking for a quick trip back to the bindstone, regardless if there are 1 cleric, 3 clerics or 8 clerics in the group.
a good group has 3 healers, 1 bladeturn, one powerregen, two tanks, rest leechers. please note that this combination always includes a mezzer by sheer coincidence unless you count mentalist as poweregen.
a healer should NEVER heal a clothwearer in combat. that endangers the whole group and clothwearers getting aggro get it cause they screw up in the first place.
what i dont understand is: if i have a warden and a bard, why the hell would i want a druid in a group? what does a druid offer that another warden or bard couldnt do better? cant be the instaheals, instaheals do SO suck pve.
a good group has 3 healers, 1 bladeturn, one powerregen, two tanks, rest leechers. please note that this combination always includes a mezzer by sheer coincidence unless you count mentalist as poweregen.
a healer should NEVER heal a clothwearer in combat. that endangers the whole group and clothwearers getting aggro get it cause they screw up in the first place.
what i dont understand is: if i have a warden and a bard, why the hell would i want a druid in a group? what does a druid offer that another warden or bard couldnt do better? cant be the instaheals, instaheals do SO suck pve.
O
old.Freda
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- #39
[QUOTE
what i dont understand is: if i have a warden and a bard, why the hell would i want a druid in a group? what does a druid offer that another warden or bard couldnt do better? cant be the instaheals, instaheals do SO suck pve. [/B][/QUOTE]
Cause druids out heal ANY other class... And those sucky insta's save your scrawn butt
Oh and the yellow buffs.. You know the ones all the tanks & casters hate.
freda
what i dont understand is: if i have a warden and a bard, why the hell would i want a druid in a group? what does a druid offer that another warden or bard couldnt do better? cant be the instaheals, instaheals do SO suck pve. [/B][/QUOTE]
Cause druids out heal ANY other class... And those sucky insta's save your scrawn butt
Oh and the yellow buffs.. You know the ones all the tanks & casters hate.
freda
I
infozwerg
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- #40
ahhh, buffs, that answers the question.
V
Vell
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- #41
Huh? Care to explain that at all? Surely grouping is the best way to gain xp, whatever level you are?
If you say so....I would say 2 healers, 2 tanks, 2 other melee, 1 bladeturn, and anything else you may want to to add. Power-regen if you haven't got it on another class.
Wrong. A good healer will know exactly when to heal every single member of the group. Sometimes they will even allow certain people to die in order to keep someone else alive, and sometimes that person happens to be a cloth caster, and sometimes it's more beneficial to keep a runie alive because of a) bladeturn and b) better damage output than any other class. Depends on the situation.
To have a seconary character capable of crowd control, even if it is only root. To have a pet, which although not wonderful, can take the aggro from an inc mob for a little while while tanks deal with other mobs. To have the best buffs in Hibernia. And yes, to have insta heals.
Again, seriously wrong. If you believe that, then I can only come to the conclusion that your healers have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Instahealers are lifesavers, for every single person in the group. No more to say on that issue.
C
case-rigantis
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- #42
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old.Gad
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- #43
Wrong on all counts. Druid heals RULE. They can heal more, faster and more mana efficiently than any other class in Hibernia. The powerdrain on the wardens bubble excludes him from anything other than emergency healing after level 45, the bard is crowd control and backup healing... but neither of their heals can match the druids.
Why?
When was the last time you saw a bard or a warden max regrowth? Druids take regrowth higher that either class which means they get better heals or less mana. Not to mention the instas, the group heals (which wardens do not get) and the best buffs in the realm.
I don't invite them for the conversation!
O
old.Tohtori
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- #44
Hmm...
Maybe i should go back to Midgard and bring back Tohtori again..seemed to be a likable healer around
But, i'm talking of my experience and knowledge here. Few pointers.
First off healers can make a good group alone, heck, i teamed with two other healers for hours. One fights, one heals, one regens..worked fine.
But, about combat healing with two healers. Forget about "You take that, i take him and him, and you heal him also" Jsut gets confusing. Best way to heal with two is simple, imo:
First one heals, uses biggest heals available and only when the health is low. This way you get the full benefit of the maxed heals. When pow gets low, you sit down and the other healer takes over. Repear, cycle, wrinse, worked every time.
Just my opinion here, oh..and a good point is...keep your mini-party screen open! There's that little yellow dot before the healthbars wich indicates when a wiz, healer or whatnot is out of pow. Don't pull if it's not shining.
There.
Maybe i should go back to Midgard and bring back Tohtori again..seemed to be a likable healer around
But, i'm talking of my experience and knowledge here. Few pointers.
First off healers can make a good group alone, heck, i teamed with two other healers for hours. One fights, one heals, one regens..worked fine.
But, about combat healing with two healers. Forget about "You take that, i take him and him, and you heal him also" Jsut gets confusing. Best way to heal with two is simple, imo:
First one heals, uses biggest heals available and only when the health is low. This way you get the full benefit of the maxed heals. When pow gets low, you sit down and the other healer takes over. Repear, cycle, wrinse, worked every time.
Just my opinion here, oh..and a good point is...keep your mini-party screen open! There's that little yellow dot before the healthbars wich indicates when a wiz, healer or whatnot is out of pow. Don't pull if it's not shining.
There.
V
Vell
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- #45
Re: Hmm...
Sorry, but 90% of high level healers will disagree. The large heals drain mana super-quick, and after 4 of them you have to sit down and rest for 5 minutes. Also, if you wait for health to get low, and the mob gets a critical, bam! you're a tank down.
The best way to do it is for both healers to use small heals - I recommend the second baseline one, not a spec heal. This way, when you heal, you use very little mana, and if both happen to heal the same person, well, it doesn't matter because you only wasted a tiny bit of mana casting it anyway.
Sorry, but 90% of high level healers will disagree. The large heals drain mana super-quick, and after 4 of them you have to sit down and rest for 5 minutes. Also, if you wait for health to get low, and the mob gets a critical, bam! you're a tank down.
The best way to do it is for both healers to use small heals - I recommend the second baseline one, not a spec heal. This way, when you heal, you use very little mana, and if both happen to heal the same person, well, it doesn't matter because you only wasted a tiny bit of mana casting it anyway.
M
matax
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- #46
I've lost count of the number of times those sucky instaheals have saved my parties lives - find some druids that know how to use them properly and then come back and tell us they suck !
O
old.Tohtori
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- #47
Re: Re: Hmm...
Well then i'm one of the 10%. And also...."if both happen to heal the same person"...read my post...this can't happen.
I just happen to disagree, no wait, you disagree so i'm just sticking to my opinion.
Well then i'm one of the 10%. And also...."if both happen to heal the same person"...read my post...this can't happen.
I just happen to disagree, no wait, you disagree so i'm just sticking to my opinion.
O
old.Freda
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- #48
Re: Re: Re: Hmm...
Then you won't get many groups wanting you past lvl 35. Druids CAN'T tank past this lvl with any ease. You might have a high spec in nature affin to get the uber pet but your solo career is on a downward spiral. By lvl 40 you'll find you have trouble soloing blues.
Also using the big heals draws aggro and as a druid can't taunt (unless you inc. running about like a headless chicken a taunt) then your healer buddy is screwed too.
I can only assume by your opinion that you are a low lvl druid.... Come back later after you've lvl'd and then tell me if you feel that same way
Freda
Originally posted by Tohtori
Well then i'm one of the 10%. And also...."if both happen to heal the same person"...read my post...this can't happen.
I just happen to disagree, no wait, you disagree so i'm just sticking to my opinion.
Then you won't get many groups wanting you past lvl 35. Druids CAN'T tank past this lvl with any ease. You might have a high spec in nature affin to get the uber pet but your solo career is on a downward spiral. By lvl 40 you'll find you have trouble soloing blues.
Also using the big heals draws aggro and as a druid can't taunt (unless you inc. running about like a headless chicken a taunt) then your healer buddy is screwed too.
I can only assume by your opinion that you are a low lvl druid.... Come back later after you've lvl'd and then tell me if you feel that same way
Freda
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old.Tohtori
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- #49
Druids?
Druids? Druids? Who said anything about druids...
Read my lips..no ..post! Talking bout midgard. And yes, haven't leveled up to lvl 40 with a druid OR a healer but hell i was talking about MY opinion and MY experience so far. Gees... you really need to read my posts and listen to what i mean and not what i'm saying
Druids? Druids? Who said anything about druids...
Read my lips..no ..post! Talking bout midgard. And yes, haven't leveled up to lvl 40 with a druid OR a healer but hell i was talking about MY opinion and MY experience so far. Gees... you really need to read my posts and listen to what i mean and not what i'm saying
V
Vell
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- #50
Ladies, ladies, put your claws away....
Tohtori - yes, you are right, very very right, at lower levels that is the best way to do it. It makes it very easy to chain pull mobs and you always have a healer with a good amount of power.
However, it doesn't matter whether you are druid or healer; at higher levels, your opinions and tactics will change. Trust me. Hopefully you can remember this and not have to die a billion times (like i did in closed beta) to find it out.
Tohtori - yes, you are right, very very right, at lower levels that is the best way to do it. It makes it very easy to chain pull mobs and you always have a healer with a good amount of power.
However, it doesn't matter whether you are druid or healer; at higher levels, your opinions and tactics will change. Trust me. Hopefully you can remember this and not have to die a billion times (like i did in closed beta) to find it out.
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old.Tohtori
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- #51
....
.....
/em slaps Vell
I'm no lady!
Hey no hard feelings here, just discussing things in a civilized and violent manner
.....
/em slaps Vell
I'm no lady!
Hey no hard feelings here, just discussing things in a civilized and violent manner
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old.Tohtori
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- #52
And ofcourse i'm right
V
Vell
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- #53
Re: ....
Oh really? You behave like one....
Originally posted by Tohtori
.....
/em slaps Vell
I'm no lady!
Oh really? You behave like one....
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old.Freda
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- #54
Well I'm a woman!! No lady would behave like me
As for the healers group method... I do agree with what Tohtori does with grouping at below lvl 30 as I too have done this but as you lvl u will have to change tactics.
Freda (All woman... Many hormones)
As for the healers group method... I do agree with what Tohtori does with grouping at below lvl 30 as I too have done this but as you lvl u will have to change tactics.
Freda (All woman... Many hormones)
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old.Alliandre
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- #55
ok. this is what I like in groups.
2 bard/mentalist-healer, mezzer, regen
1 druid/warden-disease/bubble and heals. These are useful but not absolutly necassary
3 tanks-Draw aggro and take damage. Usually pulls to
damage dealers-Deal damage of coarse.
This rolls are interchangable and can be done by many classes. But in a full group you need at least 2 healers. But if you don't have tanks your not going to do to well as a healer I don't think.
I've been a group with my enchantress where we had an enchantress, ranger and mentalist. We was hunting Irewoods and the mentalist mezzed the adds and the Irewood we picked on got stunned and was either dead or almost dead by the time it reached us.
Not saying that my original thing I said at the top is the only way to make groups or that healers are useless without a tank. Groups are always successful if you have the right elements to the group and are organised.
*finishes ranting*
2 bard/mentalist-healer, mezzer, regen
1 druid/warden-disease/bubble and heals. These are useful but not absolutly necassary
3 tanks-Draw aggro and take damage. Usually pulls to
damage dealers-Deal damage of coarse.
This rolls are interchangable and can be done by many classes. But in a full group you need at least 2 healers. But if you don't have tanks your not going to do to well as a healer I don't think.
I've been a group with my enchantress where we had an enchantress, ranger and mentalist. We was hunting Irewoods and the mentalist mezzed the adds and the Irewood we picked on got stunned and was either dead or almost dead by the time it reached us.
Not saying that my original thing I said at the top is the only way to make groups or that healers are useless without a tank. Groups are always successful if you have the right elements to the group and are organised.
*finishes ranting*
M
matax
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- #56
Probably the most important thing is that basically any group set-up can be successful with 2 things:
1. Each person knows how to play their characters and how (and when) to use their available skills (definitely not a given !)
2. You know your limits (i.e. how much pulling power you have - oo-err)
If you have these two it will work. Certain mixes of characters will work better than others i.e. less downtime, more XP. If your a lewt dewd, then fine go and find what you consider a perfect group. If you not, then I suspect it won't matter what set-up your group has as long as your having fun - I've been in many groups that are nowhere near what is deemed to be 'perfect' and had more fun in them than others I have been in that are. Build up a group of friends you are comfortable playing with and who know what their characters can do and it won't matter - unless your the aforementioned lewt dewd in which case you'll probably never be happy anyway
1. Each person knows how to play their characters and how (and when) to use their available skills (definitely not a given !)
2. You know your limits (i.e. how much pulling power you have - oo-err)
If you have these two it will work. Certain mixes of characters will work better than others i.e. less downtime, more XP. If your a lewt dewd, then fine go and find what you consider a perfect group. If you not, then I suspect it won't matter what set-up your group has as long as your having fun - I've been in many groups that are nowhere near what is deemed to be 'perfect' and had more fun in them than others I have been in that are. Build up a group of friends you are comfortable playing with and who know what their characters can do and it won't matter - unless your the aforementioned lewt dewd in which case you'll probably never be happy anyway
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old.TonkED
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- #57
Well when i used to play my cleric (Garf) If we had 2 healers,
we used to split the mini-screen by half dependsing on how many members there were, e.g 8 members we take 4 each,
If one had low heath on there side of the mini-bar cuz they gone afk (i don't know how many clerics done this when i was in a group with 2) quickly give it a heal, its still not 100% fool proof, but in a good group it works effectively when hunting mobs that BAF.
Anuther thing that can be a pain, is as said before, a couple of mobs (BaF) and one gets the cleric, all the tanks seems to take them out 1by1, this cost me my life lots of times, the point of haveing a cleric (aka a class that can heal) Is to heal, why they can't just get that mob of me i don't know.
Well anyway just my views...
we used to split the mini-screen by half dependsing on how many members there were, e.g 8 members we take 4 each,
If one had low heath on there side of the mini-bar cuz they gone afk (i don't know how many clerics done this when i was in a group with 2) quickly give it a heal, its still not 100% fool proof, but in a good group it works effectively when hunting mobs that BAF.
Anuther thing that can be a pain, is as said before, a couple of mobs (BaF) and one gets the cleric, all the tanks seems to take them out 1by1, this cost me my life lots of times, the point of haveing a cleric (aka a class that can heal) Is to heal, why they can't just get that mob of me i don't know.
Well anyway just my views...
I
infozwerg
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- #58
in theory, yes.
in midgard, yes.
in a guildteam, yes of course.
in albion, no.
wrong. a good runemaster will get aggro only once if he groups with me. a bad runemaster gets aggro twice and then looks for a new group.
instaheal is sucky on tanks, unless major screwup occurs, they are uneccesary. if major screwup occurs, you kill yourself with insta and dead healer means dead group.
groupinsta kills yourself every time it is used, unless someone with amnesia or mezz can take mobs of you. in midgard, the char with amnesia and mezz is healer, so groupinsta == dead healer == dead group.
unless of course you got lvl 38 pac, but then you dont have groupinsta or are lvl 43+, according to your sig you are not.
ciao,
Estat
V
Vell
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- #59
Well, aren't you a friendly chap.
That's the whole point, dear. Sometimes, things don't go according to plan. And that's when insta saves lives.
Let me give you an example. I am the secondary healer in a group. The primary healer is doing the mezzing, since the mobs are all purple to me - my mezz would just interfere. We pull, and it goes a bit wrong. Every mezz gets resisted. I notice this and start spamming my area mezz, but as you might expect, this gets resisted too. But our tanks are good, and manage to get the mobs off of us and onto them, so we start healing. Except, because the tanks are taking big damage, we have to spam heal, and the other healer manages to aggro back onto himself. I am now left with 1 dead tank, 4 tanks on low life, 1 healer with aggro, and a runie. What do I do? Group insta. I KNEW full well that I would die doing it, but every other member of the group survived. That is why group insta is useful. It's all about knowing your tools and knowing when to use them. If you cannot recognise this, then that's your problem.
Oh, and by the way, healers get insta stun at 28 pac, and insta mezz at 29. Not the 38 you quoted.
F
Flimgoblin
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- #60
I share your pain... well with my wizard
It all depends on the group admittedly... if you have no proper crowd control you want a tank peeling off and getting the adds, taunting them once and going back to the main enemy.
However I've met a lot of tanks that just stand there and whack one monster, ignoring everything else going on. It's excusable up to about lvl 20 from inexperience... but after that they should be learning.
Of course after level 20 they'll have to unlearn any reflexes they've got so they can let the CC do their thang.