MP3's

[old.frankie]

Im here sitting all alone downloading tonnes of mp3's, at the same time recording dance stuff off radio 1, all to be put into mp3 format.
now tell me, loads of people hate people who have loads of mp3's and dont bother to buy cd's etc.
tell me if us mp3 peep were'nt gonna buy the tape or cd of this stuff anyway, ( which i know i wont as i consider it a waste of money ) whats the problem, i see no problem as they aint looseing any money as we wernt gonna buy the stuff in the first place, thats the main point aint it, MONEY.
tell me if i am wrong, and lets get a good disscussion going on here.

p.s long live TRANCE and DANCE

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[This message has been edited by frankie (edited 18 September 1999).]

 

[old.[SOF]Venom]

What the F**k are you talking about???!!!! Aside from the fact that you taste in music is perhaps the worst I have seen in weeks, MP3 music used by skintflints who won't buy the true product are going to kill the music industry.

Aside from this, if you are gonna sell this (maybe you aren't) you deserve to die a horrible death (maybe an elephant with piles sitting on your head).

p.s. GET GOOD TASTE IN MUSIC AND STOP BEING CHEAP LOSER

 

[old.TUG]

? WTF u on?

1 - I bet we all DL mp3's but noone needs to know

2 - dont dis dance music... TRUE dance music (house, garage, trance etc) is good and quite creative ill let u know

I bet you r basing your opinions in the usual pop shit thats totally unlawfully classified as dance music... I listen to 'underground' dance music - i.e. not commercial - its a totally diffferent thing

Should i say that your taste in music is wank becuz its diff to mine??? I wont becuz everyone has a right to listen to what they want to and download what they want to

cool argument

[This message has been edited by TUG (edited 18 September 1999).]

 

[DApea!]

Well, i have nearly 1400 mp3's.


and i can say, only abt 200.. i could have BOUGHT from a shop.


cos shops are crap and dont sell shit.

 

[old.Pure Science]

You cant beet a bit of Hard house or Trance and largin it till 10am the next morning, its the tits!

long live MDMA

 

[old.frankie]

yeah, dont even think bout dissing dance and trance, just caus u like s club 7
im just saying that theres no harm in getting mp3's that you wernt gonna get in first place.
and thats true.

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[old.Lizardking]

Old argument - new subject. Its the same as the piracy thing. Bottom line is, Bill Gates is nearly a trillionaire DESPITE the millions of people using Windows on the cheap. IE: a gold disk.
Its the same with music - I have less money than Radiohead so I listen to their music via the MP3 format.
Simple.
(actually thats not entirely true - I have bought their albums but most of the good stuff is on bootleg and unavailable in the shops)

 

[old.~ clarky ~]

finally lizard king me and u seem to be the only people here who like decent music ie RADIOHEAD and as for the original argument is it okay for me to steal a cd from a shop if i didnt really want to pay for it ?????

answer hell no

just because mp3 isnt something tangible doesnt mean its ok to distribute or reproduce it. if u like a band support them by buying their stuff and make sure they can continue to make the music u like them for

 

[old.tigertom]

Bill Gates is a trillionaire because registered companies have to buy his products
legitimately, in the West, because if they didn't they may get fined by the DTI (in the UK) or whomever, if found out, and it would look bad in the normal course of business if your clients found out too.

I'm a musician. If someone bootlegged my music I wouldn't be be very happy - it's like the early days of Tin Pan Alley when sheet music was sold without the author seeing a penny.
Record companies need the dosh because for every star they produce there are half a dozen failures. You'd never hear of most of the bands you rip off if a record company
or an individual hadn't put the time and money up to promote them. They deserve a return on their investment. Small dance acts are usually two blokes and bank of gear, promoted and managed by another bloke or two leading a hand-to-mouth existence. A number one in the UK doesn't guarantee you're quids in any more. A bottom-of-the-top-thirty placing means you're ok for a round of drinks, for a week or two - true!

The interesting thing about warez and crackz (which I have used), is that they're often done by clever young men in the West, and end up being used by gangsters in the East for bootlegging. These latter nice men are often into drugs and prostitution and anything that makes an illegal buck - usually the degradation of their fellow human beings.

If you think that's 'funny' or 'cool', I feel sorry for you.

The twinning of warez and porn sites is sometimes not just because some young lad wants to make a few bucks from click-throughs, but because they're part of the same organization.

I toyed with the idea of setting up a soft porn site myself - lots of people looking for it, must be profitable, where's the harm ? -, but found it corrodes and coarsens your character : you go looking for saucy pics of young ladies, and you find unbelievable filth and stupidity, and it becomes 'normal' in the end.

Some poor bastard sweats for two years to bring out a program, or an album, and some smartass cracks it in a week and posts the results on the Internet - wot a genius.

I find you can usually get what you want in cheap shareware or freeware in you hunt around and read the product descriptins and download stuff and try it out.

I got a serial for for a program costing $399 recently, and was very excited about it - more for the novelty, than anything else - went through it's features one by one, and found I already had freeware that would do the same. The one feature that seemed unique and useful turned out not to work properly. Handy in that I don't lust after it any more, bad in that I should have hunted around shareware sites more and not get obsessed by any brand name or hyped-up product description.

Slow day at work today

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[old.TUG]

What if we said you cant get half the stuff we listen to on CD or tape???

ahhhhhhhh what to do now then??? Go out an buy a 12" when we aint got record decks and spend a fiver on 2 choons (a side = 1 tune and AA/B is only 1 choon aswell) when we can DL for next to nowt? And thats if we can even find the tune we r lookin for!

BTW if dance is shit, radiohead suck ass... hey you cant say im a twat for saying that seeing as you think our music is crap.

Faggot.... grrrrrrrr

And if u wanna nick a CD, do it.

mmmmm beer

bye byeee :/

 

[old.Lizardking]

Ive heard your music - I even voted for it (Remember) and if anyone was to bootleg or copy it, if I were you I wouldnt be offended, Id consider it a miracle

[kidding - dont go all serious]

your half right about the piracy thing tho - everybody resents Billy boy, not for being so rich, but for blatantly ripping people off. Take MSWord, great program - essential even, I use it perhaps once a month, I dont know what it costs but I bet its a lot. For something which should be part of Windows anyway.

Gamespy on the other hand - used every day, is well worth the cash. A measly 20 quid.

 

[old.Lizardking]

Oh. ... and while were on the subject [MP3z], does anyone know how to record vinyl into MP3 format. (nothing illegal I just want to reproduce my old Electro albums - long ago deleted - onto CD)

????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[old.~ clarky ~]

tug i think u have passed the stage where i can help u so ill let u go thinking whatever the hell u want.

lizard king as there is no illegal stuff involved all u do is connect your amplifier to the line in or digital in on your sound card get a program called music match jukebox and it does it all for u by the way i recommend u use variable bit rate at about 55 slightly larger files but it helps get rid of the swrly noise on the treble (mp3 has a problem with this) OR even better use vqf files smaller size for better quality but there r a few drawbacks 1.they take a long time to encode 2.u cant fast forward them (silly i know) 3. they cant be converted into wavs (i dont think, some one prove me wrong ??) i hope this is of some use

 

[old.~ clarky ~]

in fact tug i can help you first of all i will not nick a cd so bugger off. secondly if u really want to listen to the songs then u should buy decks or dance music should not be so shit as to only release artists songs on vinyl and RADIOHEAD are perhaps the most talented individuals any music has seen for a hell of a long time.


please feel free to give me abuse im sure u will anyway tug

 

[old.TUG]

clarky - have some abuse

I wont nick a cd either, just saying if ya want to then go and try it.

"secondly if u really want to listen to the songs then u should buy decks or dance music should not be so shit as to only release artists songs on vinyl"

Erm, know what dance DJ's are? They use 12" m8 so seeing as the music i listen to is underground and mixing is easy with decks and DJ's are the only ones who really play it regularly theres why ya dont get no CD's... But i do buy decent CD's of the stuff when mixed by a good DJ...

Radiohead may be the best musicians in a long while, or maybe not even!!! You aint heard the stuff i listen to so how can ya judge? But i dont seriously say to you that radiohead are shite, so why should you say my music is shit? Because it doesnt appeal to you its shit? dodgy...

heh nice arguement clarky LOL.

You can carry this on if ya want but lets restrain from using these boards eh...

u have me ICQ number...

 

[old.FingerMagnet]

Well done Tigertom! Thats probably the best thought out argument I've read on this message board for a long time!

I've tried mp3z alittle (okay alot I'm more like an mp3 fiend!), but I use mp3z as samples. If I liked the tracks, I would go out and buy the artist album. Although this has only happened once.

What do ppl think about mp3s being used as the main means to distribute music by record companies? Are they crazy!?!

 

[old.tigertom]

Ta for praise, boo to the criticism, I say, ha har!

Hello, Lizzy, yep, it would be a miracle if I was bootlegged. I've stopped writing at the moment, as it just ain't good enough. I might go back to me roots, get some crap old guitars and things, and make some weird noise for fun. Dance music basically seems to require you to follow the trends as fast as you can, and I can't be arsed any more. Let those who have six months to work on a drum track do so, and good luck to 'em!

MP3's I think would be a good way to promote a song, if they were recorded at half the bandwidth of a CD or somehow crippled to encourage people to fork out say, a quid, for a song. It's not possible to do this on a quid-for-a-song basis yet, I think, as merchant banks will only process around $10 per transaction or thereabouts. Or it's not economically viable due to overheads on each transaction.

Or just a giveaway. But if people give out their best song unmodified no one will pay for it when they do a proper release. If they give out a 'b-side', and the band itself is obscure, who'll want it? That's the problem. Hmm, might work if the very good song is mixed by amateurs for MP3 release.
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Microsoft ARE charging too much for their products. Because they can get away with it. Because system admins will play safe every time and buy what goes with their OS.

Has anyone seen this 98Lite thing, and used it? That's what's needed - something that cuts the shite out of those bloated programs.

My girlfriend is from parts East. She says they bootleg out there because they REALLY can't afford the money for the proper programs. And to support their mafia empires

It's safer too - no one ever got their hands cut off for selling a crappy disk of Office 98. She brought me a couple of disks back back - pure shite, waste of time, lucky it didn't have something nasty on it.

I'm just grumpy because I went through a mad period of looking for cracks for certain stupidly priced products, found a lot I only half-needed, some I still use, and eventually got some great shareware/freeware stuff that did the job nicely.

It's been an eye-opener in terms of seeing all the credit-card number generating junk and hacking toolz out there - misery for admins everywhere.

If you use STOLEN credit-card numbers you've really crossed the line, and are not just a cheeky chappie, but an outright crook. Scary.
Those algorithm-fooling software-generated numbers are LAME and a waste of time.

Anyway, sod it. Do it if you want. Just don't delude yourself it's all alright. Be stupid to get caught for something as petty as that, anyway.

Gripe, gripe, gripe.

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It's got some nifty stuff.

 

[xane]

Tigertoms argument is a good one, but I do sometimes wonder just how much the artist's profit margin is on a CD, and I'm talking about "name" artists not "X feat. Y" on their first day out the studio. Some people seem to make filthy huge amounts from simple music, the Spice Girls were in the "four-Mercedes-and-a-Range-Rover" bracket each after the first album.

The real money comes from performance art, successful bands make a lot more from live shows, adverts, films, promotions and sponserships, than pressings. Performance art is a lot of hard work, and takes a lot of marketing to be successful, which is sometimes even more hard work.

"Two guys with some gear" can't perform much of a show (apart from nightclubs), there is minimal "physical" ability involved with electronic computer-aided music and certainly very little creativity in the way of lyrics. Unless you make it a true performance, i.e. with a cool video, you deserve only "beer money" on what is a basically a weak product.

However, your "beer money" product may sell, and when Eidos ask you to write the title track to Tomb Raider 7 then you've got it made. Sometimes you have to work for peanuts to get "known", in any industry.

Music in its "raw" form, a CD/MP3, should be thought of as "promotional material", a giveaway, if you want more then go see the band live, thats when you get the real money. If a big corporation wants your talent, then you cream them for it like any professional would. Of course, you do have to be quite good to do this.

If a music company gave away free downloads of original MP3s they'd get millions of hits, thats prime web-based advertising space for a start, and you are promoting your product ! Old music is not going to sell well, why not put all 3 year old tracks onto a web site, allow people to download legitimately (as long as its from that web site) and you will make a fortune in advertising revenue, now that IS money for old rope.

Music companies would also save by not having to spend time and money chasing down students who stick a few MP3s on their site, who would visit those sites if there was an alternative, legal and guarenteed download elsewhere ?

Its cheapskates like Paul McCartney who are still demanding massive royalties on music produced thirty years ago who "rip off" the industry AND the public, do you really think its fair to pay £30 for a Beatles album ???

Don't get me wrong, I do *not* think its right to bootleg music, but the sort of money that gets asked for chart hits is a "rip off" for the consumer and it does not surprize me so people many object to paying for it.

 

[old.~ clarky ~]

ok tug how can u be so sure i havent heard what u listen to ??
and also if djs really wanted they could use the new cd mixers and another thing it costs practically the same amount to release on cd as vinyl so the company the artists work for are shit.

and i dont remember saying your music was shit in the first place ?

 

[old.~ clarky ~]

i didnt say dance music itself was shit even though i dont particularly like it i said the industry surrounding it is crap

 

[old.TUG]

Some top points from the boyz above

Clarky, im bored now m8...

but tell me how the industry surrounding trance/house is crap?

Presuming you actually know about the industry of course..

DJ's know full well about the CD mixers, but for years have still chosen to stick with decks... I'd personally say it takes a bit more skill to successfully operate decks over CD mixers, and a mixing desk in itself is quite complex unless u know what u r doing... and with the right music they can scratch too (say rap, hip hop etc, they dont do it with trance, it would sound fuckin gay) - not possible with CD's. Digital is the reasoning.

Anyway, I have less than 200megz of MP3's and 150 CD's...

Just sayin if ppl want to DL mp3's let em - its no big deal...

[This message has been edited by TUG (edited 24 September 1999).]

 

[old.tigertom]

Artists royalties are small when you're starting out. After you have a hit, you re-negotiate your contract, if you can. Once all the expenses have been taken off - record production and promotion, the managers cut etc - the artist may see very little of the money. If they didn't write the song, they get feck all. Once you are a confirmed hit act with a few consecutive top fives, then you're into the big money. You are a 'brand', that can be sold in many ways, especially if you have a strong, attractive image, like the Spice Girls. A lot of their money comes from tie-in products.

MP3's are fat, and use a lot of bandwith to download. Imagine a record co. trying to release one by a top act - the 'net would slow right down. Imagine your gaming being buggered up because a lot of little girls were downloading Britney Spears or something?

Advertising revenue from a web site is likely to generate a lot less income than people coughing up for the product - the latter is straight cash into the company's pocket.

MP3's would probably work like the old demo discs and tapes on the NME magazine - promotion, but nothing to get excited about, usually. Unknown acts COULD put out their best stuff, as it's likely to be a bit unpolished anyway.

The secret lure of MP3's lies in getting a pristine track of a big hit act for feck all, so don't lie

What's screaming.net FOR, anyway, but to download fat files you don't really want but obsessively collect anyway, eh?

TigerTom knows your guilty secrets, oh yes.


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[old.Lizardking]

Damn. Rumbled.

 

[old.frankie]

what about the radio, if ya listening to radio 1 and like what u hear whats the difference between listening to it on radio or downloading it ?
none.
Anyways, i suppose loads of people record off the radio like me, the dance sessions on friday sat and sun are brill, and well worth recording.

???, any ideas ?

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[old.~ clarky ~]

the difference is the same between streaming and downlodable u can listen to one all the time but if its on the radio u cant choose when the song is played

 

[old.TUG]

... but you can record it... and a lot of ppl now have minidisks etc - digital recording = nice sound quality... Ive got one and frankie has too. So its just the same as DLing mp3's in this case then aint it.

 

[old.frankie]

yeah, so why the fook are all the coarts and record comapnies making a very big issue over mp3's and the players, when.
1. only a small minority of people have computers, and even fewer actually get mp3's

2.only a few have mp3 players.

3. many more peep have minidisk players which a. allows easier recording of many other sources such as cd players etc. b. there is no b.

they didnt make as much fuss over minidisk players did they, and all hi fis come with recordable tapes anyway, so whats the problem with mp3s. surely a select minority isnt gonna threating the music industry made up of billions of people buying music ?

my point exactly

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[old.TUG]

Looks like we sumed this up perfectly - as frankie said, we have always (always being this centuary i spose) had a media to record music or what not onto...

mp3's r no different, plus its cheaper to record off the radio, no download costs etc...

I bet ya all record stuff off the radio so the point of ppl arguing about the initial post is nil.

 

[old.Mincer]

yeah, but with mp3's it is possible to find practically any song you want, with minidiscs you would either have to wait 'till it comes on the radio (unlikely unless it's a chart hit, and wtf would you want any of that crap) or find a friend who owns it.

 

[old.TUG]

But the main point of argument (not from me though) still remains - if you DL mp3's, record off radio etc you aint buying the CD so yer a lamer