"Moral" dilemmas.

[old.Tohtori]

I've lately noticed a slight "moral" dilemma in my own mind. It's not something that is "mind shattering" or in any way inconviniences me, but it leaves a bit of a hmm in the mind.

I'm talking about, public transportation and the seating order.

Say i'm sitting at a nice bench, on the bus, going home.

Now.

The buss is full to the max, no seats and a granny pops in with a loose hip, one eye missing, shes pregnant and carrying groceries. Anyhoo, noone gets up, the seats meant specially for grannies and such, are all taken by grannies and such. Now here's my mind, on a frying pan:

I should stand up and give my seat to the grans. Afterall, i'm younger, in better shape, i don't mind standing and so forth.

BUT

I paid for the fare, i paid for my right to a seat, i'm every bit as entitled to the seat as this granny, no matter how busted up she may be. I'm as much of a human(not a word Dukat), i could be tired too and, in general, every thinking mind for themselves.

I've yet to solve it, so i go by the feel mostly.

Anyone got any input, or similar "moral" problems, where your personal right clashes with what's the "right tihng to do". Or any other things to discuss in this particular area.

 

[Guest]

the bus was full yesterday and a mother and young daughter got on the bus last, i gave my seat up for the mother and daughter, i gave it up after about 45 seconds of waiting to see if anyone else would give their seat up, they didn't,so i did, i think that although i have a right to sit on a seat as i have paid my fare, i also have a moral obligation to give my seat up if i want to, to someone who needs it more than me at the time, its a bit of a, if i do it for them, sometime in the future someone will do it for me thing........

plus i got a nice smile off a fit girl when she realised i had given my set up forthe mother and daughter, the mother thanked me as well.

 

[Jupitus]

I get the granny to sit on my lap and get jiggy

 

[Binky the Bomb]

I get the granny to sit on my lap and get jiggy

Still a gentleman I see

Tohtori, I wouldn't worry too much about it. You at least gave it some thought, which is more than you can say for everyone else on the bus. Last time I used public transport, I ended up giving my seat up for an old woman, despite me having to use a cane to get around at the time. Across from me was a guy a few years younger than me, in the OAP/diabled seats, looking determind not to move.

I stood next to him, and amade sure my cane 'accidentally' got right in in front of his face every time the bus went round a corner (on my home route, there are a number of bends). He got the message when the next old lady got on, and shot me a look that would have killed when I switched the cane to my other hand.

He only moved because I inconvenienced him, not because he wanted to get up and move, he prob didn't even give it a thought.

If its worrying you, then everything is normal. That guilt your feeling is just your minds way of saying "Don't do it again."

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh i've not done it, especially in a full buss, i think about giving seats in semi-half busses and move back myself so the grangrans(and ESPECIALLY hot ladies *grin*) don't have to walk to the back. If i notice things that is, and am not in zombie mode.

It's just a bit bothersome ideal clash, kinda like a devil and angel on shoulder thing. I have a right, but i'd rahter not enforce my right.

Most the time i don't get bothered by waiting, giving seats, standing, sitting on floors etc, if it doesn't hurt me, why not. Also pick up trash from street if i walk by as it takes a whopping 1 second of my time to tke it to the next bin that comes around.

I don't really feel guilt or apologize, unless I've actually done something by intent. It's an old Finnish thing really.

 

[Calaen]

Give up the seat, its the right thing to do.

 

[tris-]

old people are the rudest fuckers about.

fuck em, they can stand up and hang on for dear life.

 

[Guest]

unless you plan to die young and leave a beautiful corpse, then you are going to get old too, its this type of attitude tris- thats fucking this country up tbh........

 

[tris-]

yes, its me disliking old people that is causing terrorism and chavs!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, old people are rude. And this brings me to a rant of sorts.

I've noticed that people don't wait the f*ck up when people are getting off the bus/tram/escalator. They just start pushing in, so much so, that one time i missed my stop 'cause middle-aged f*ckers wouldn't let me out.

The ONLY people who are polite, wait, give room, watch out that they don't push you hwen they pass you and actually line up to the left in escalators(or right in the UK?) so other people can WALK on escalators...are the "teenage criminals" that the old farts complain about.

It just seems so wrong, that once people get to a certain age, they seem to act like they own the world and everything in it.

I don't mind it too much, fine, you're in a hurry, but don't inconvinience my life and for petes sake, apologize if your running knocks my groceries off my hand.

Just reminded me of this when tris- said that.

 

[Raven]

give them the seat.

 

[Blackjack]

When, on rare ocasions, i use public transportation. I will give up my seat to old or pregnant ladies. I do agree, A LOT of old people are rude beyond belief. But people in general are fucktards. And although i don't particularly care what they think of me. I really don't want to be, one of those bastards i hate so much. So if even 1 good person gets my seat, and appreciate it. It more than makes up for those 10 other asshats i give my seat, although they don't deserve it.

I'm young & healthy, and it really doesn't make a difference to me, whether i sit or stand.

 

[Dahakon]

The last time I offered to give up my seat the person had a go at me that 'they weren't so decrepit they couldn't stand on a bus' so I don't anymore, if thats all the thanks I got for trying to be nice.

 

[Dukat]

unless you plan to die young and leave a beautiful corpse, then you are going to get old too, its this type of attitude tris- thats fucking this country up tbh........

^^ I plan to die young, however if I do managed to make it to level 51+++ and respec my hair to grey, I'm pretty sure I wouldnt be as rude as some of the silvertops you see around these days.

Having said that it may not sound like I have the greatest respect for my elders, but I really do - I've been in a similar situation to tohtori's scenario (except she was just old, not the elderly pregnant cyclops from toh's version ), and I gave up my seat the second I saw her looking around to find the rest taken.

I have respect for them because the old person in my case said thanks and actually talked to me for the duration of the journey, we had a bit of a laugh, (who needs streetcred eh? ). I do not, however, have much respect for the grumpy arsehats who you see getting doors opened for them, only for them to walk through without saying a word. I saw an old person do this when a young child was holding the door open and it made my blood boil.

My Nan, god bless her, was never like it, neither is my grandad. I've seen them out and about and they are as polite to others as they expect people to be to them.

There's just no excuse for the poor manners and down right ignorance some of these OAP's display nowadays.

Like Blackjack said though, me being young and healthy, not matter how tired, means that I generally feel compelled to give my seat up to someone else who is more needy. Its not that I expect to get a gold star or anything, just that I feel bloody awkward and horrible if I dont.

 

[Bahumat]

I usually wait 30 seconds, then go up to someone who looks even older than the poor ancient pregnant lady with her vegetables and kill them. When people look round I say "He was gonna die from old age first, greedy fucker has had 80+ years of sitting on buses....cnut"

ok so I'm not allowed on any more buses, but I hear there's a few good coach companies near my house.

 

[Ezteq]

I get the granny to sit on my lap and get jiggy

its when the granny gets up tooffer you a seat you know your in trouble lol


the way i deal with these sorts of issues is think how i'd like someone to behave if i was that person, and tbh when im old, incapacitated and pregnant i hope someone will get up for me.

just do un to others, yes yes a bible quote but there had to be at least one thing in that book that actually made sense tbh...law of averages.

 

[Amanita]

I'd give up my seat.

Once on my way back home from uni I was sat next to some other random girl and in the seat opposite are to lads. Two old ladies got on the bus, the lads don't twitch an eyelid but me and this girl exchange a glance and perform a perfect syncronised "give up seat" performance.

I couldn't imagine doing anything else.

 

[Lamp]

I would have given the seat up to her. But then again, being so damn tall, I find most bus seats too uncomfortable to sit in.

Each of us makes these moral decisions. If you don't give the seat up, 100 other passengers will say" what a selfish bastard". Well how come they're not giving up THEIR seat then ? Oh, well THAT seat is an old person / disabled seat. Yeah, but yours is right opposite this one. You give it up

*10 minutes of arguing later the old lady gets off anyway*

Its your call. Whether motivated by altuistic kindness, guilt, sorrow, no one really can criticise unless they give up their seat.

In this day and age, there isn't much morality around. Not much decency any more.

I open doors for people, give seats up, but thats just me

 

[Ezteq]

actually this happened before christmas, there were loads of empty seats on the bus and this lad got on with all his christmas shopping and sat in a front seat to store his shopping, this old crumbley bitch got on and started yelling and mithering him to move because that seat was specifically for old crumblies, i said to her why didnt she sit in the seat behind and she was like "i demand this one!!"

so when i got off i told her she was a very rude old woman lol

 

[Levin]

I give up my seat about half the time. It really depends on how crap/good I feel, and of course the older person in question. Some of them really do look like the types that would bite your head off for offering.

Also, sometimes I'm in the inner seat and it's a bit awkward to push the person outside me away in order to offer my inner seat to a standing person. Trams in Gothenburg are very cramped.

 

[echome]

I don't see the dilemma... you both have paied for the trip. But you are a younger person and ofc you are to stand up and let a granny get the sit. You gimp!!!

 

[Lethul]

I dislike elderly people on buses! I always give them my seat by i will always remember one trip. My GF had just picked me up from the trainstation, this was 2 weeks after i torn off both my front and back ligament and strechted my side ligaments in a knee tackle in hockey. This forced me to have a "forrest gump" kinda thing on my entire leg. The bus was full except 1 seat which i got. My GF stood next to me. And then right before our stop, 2 elderly ladies start screaming at me that i'm not a gentleman who lets my GF sit instead of me. Fucking retards, how could they not have seen me dragging myself forward in the buss with my arms pretty much holding on the the ceiling. Sigh. Then my GF had to help me up from my seat and we walked off. Hope they felt bad afterwards

 

[old.Tohtori]

I don't see the dilemma... you both have paied for the trip. But you are a younger person and ofc you are to stand up and let a granny get the sit. You gimp!!!

That's because the dilemma isn't IF someone should give the seat, but about the clash between your right as a passenger, a person, a human to sit there and between good manners.

Of-f*cking-course people would give the seat, that's not what i'm saying here, but it's the "your damned of you do, you're damned if you don't" thing your mind makes up.

If you sit, you feel guilt(good enough word) for not letting the seat go, but also feel good becase it's your seat as much as someone elses.

If you give the seat, you feel nice about giving it, but also feel like you've just given up a personal right to do something.

It's mostly, because i'm not sure old age, or any condition, should give you "speshul rights", in anything.

 

[Amanita]

I just feel nice for giving up my seat, but then I suppose I am one of those "walkovers" who don't think much about my rights

 

[Calaen]

If you give the seat, you feel nice about giving it, but also feel like you've just given up a personal right to do something.
/QUOTE]

If you put that much effort into the decision im suprised you leave the house

Give up the seat stand up and wait for your stop!! it sounds like you want an award for doing something which is a human reaction to helping people out.

When I have given up my seat, opened doors, handed back lost property I dont start to feel all self righteous about it. I did it the moment has passed life goes on.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If you put that much effort into the decision im suprised you leave the house

Give up the seat stand up and wait for your stop!! it sounds like you want an award for doing something which is a human reaction to helping people out.

When I have given up my seat, opened doors, handed back lost property I dont start to feel all self righteous about it. I did it the moment has passed life goes on.

May sound like it, but in no way am.

I don't "Put effort into it", it's just a thing i noticed and thought i'd discuss. Like i said, it's not a thing about "should i or not", or if i should open doors, it's a thing about giving something away that you have no demand to do, yet you do it.

Helping people is always, or basically anything we do, is selfish. We do not do unselfish things. Anything.

If you've seen any of my posts, you know i'm one of the most "life goes on" guys around. But there's no harm in thinking about things, or wondering about the ideas and thoughts that go around in your head.

 

[noblok]

Helping people is always, or basically anything we do, is selfish. We do not do unselfish things. Anything.

Not really. When my mom aks me to help with something I just do it without thinking whether it's good for me or not. (Given normal circumstances and a normal request)

 

[Thorwyn]

but about the clash between your right as a passenger

I think that´s the crucial line and the point, where your argument is flawed. As a passenger, you pay for the transportation (unless it´s a train where you can book seats etc.). You don´t buy the right to sit. If the bus is full, you have to stand. Of course, if there is an emtpy seat, you have the right to take it on a first come first serve basis. But that´s no difference to a park bench or a toilet or whatever. There is no passenger´s right, so all the offering/taking seat thingies are just "things between people" and should be treated accordingly.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not really. When my mom aks me to help with something I just do it without thinking whether it's good for me or not. (Given normal circumstances and a normal request)

The thing about "everything is unselfish" which i forgot to point out, is that even a good feeling is a reward. And as such, it's selfish. I know i know, it's not like THAT, but still.

It's like giving gifts, one does it to cheer someone up, be nice, etc, but there's still that feeling you get. So in everything, there's some reward for self too.

I think that´s the crucial line and the point, where your argument is flawed. As a passenger, you pay for the transportation (unless it´s a train where you can book seats etc.). You don´t buy the right to sit. If the bus is full, you have to stand. Of course, if there is an emtpy seat, you have the right to take it on a first come first serve basis. But that´s no difference to a park bench or a toilet or whatever. There is no passenger´s right, so all the offering/taking seat thingies are just "things between people" and should be treated accordingly.

Oh don't get me wrong, there's no"argument" as such. When i say "right" i mean, as much as the next person, like you said "first come first serve". As such, there's the right to use the bench/whatnot, as much as the next guy.

Like i said, i don't have a problem in choosing, it's just an interesting way that the mind works sometimes. People actually want to be "not nice" sometimes, just to feel that "f*ck i got my rights too" mindset. If you know what i mean.

 

[Eeben]

well old people got all day to do the shopping and shit, but why do they always have to do it in the rushhoure?
i wont stand up for some old granny that has been out shopping where there is most people out, she could have done it at 10 am were there isnt any people on the bus! i know its hard but im so fucking tired of them!!