minstrels in 1.59

[old.LandShark]

No no.
This is how it works.
You tell me minstrels are great; you're wrong, I say you're a very silly human being since I just made it quite clear (without being wrong on any points, either!) why minstrels are not as great as you say they are.

Picture this an an analogy:

Me: the sky is blue. Look at it and see; observe the blueness of its colouration

You: hmm, no, the sky is green because i like rubbing pie over my elbows

Me: you're a moron. The sky is blue and I told you why.

You: you called me a bad name, therefore the sky must be green because i like rubbing etc

Me: Sorry, I stand by what I said, You're a fool and the sky is blue.

You: omg you're childish, lol, i win, i'm out of here bye /wave

-------------
End of analogy! Wasn't that fun?

As to going overboard on how bad minstrels are... hmm. Not merely irrelevant (i was asking moo to not whine that we lose our power-regen monopoly and saying we are only a tiny bit of loving short of being totally fine without being overpowered) but also hypocritical, given you seem to think it's a problem that your critshots (700+ dmg if you aren't a gimp...) on sitting people don't hit for 1400+ instead, and that... gasp... people have PBT!
You think my sabre likes stacked PBT any better than you? Perhaps my 750range DDs that hit any hib group with a warden for 100dmg (tops. And that's optimistic as hell) are somehow better than your arrows which often get bladeturned??
He's another analogy:

You: Throwing huge sharpened rocks at someone from 200 yards away and missing 90% of the time, is a lot worse than standing next to them, hitting 70% with your soft, mild-green-fairy-liquid sponges while they insert a ruddy-great spear into your bellybutton.

Me: You're a moron.

You: <etc>


----
Edit: yeah, you said I wasn't guilty of going overboard on minstrels being crap, sorry. I take the bits i said about that back =)
Do excuse my overall tetchiness btw. I really don't take offence at being called such mild things as a moron, and I did not particularly mean to cause offence when I originally said it.
I'm still right though, mwahah

 

[Rollie_David]

hmm i dont recall saying minstrels are "great" they are a good class but have a few flaws which need to be addressed, i pointed out to the guy that tried saying scouts were better than minstrels in groups that he was very wrong, you cannot deny minstrels are a good class, they are they just need some loving on certain points.

Looking over my posts i have recognized in every post pretty much that minstrels need help and in not one have i said they are great. U have a good char with alot of useful utilities, you will get love because look how loud some of these other minstrels are shouting about how dead the class is when its far from it.

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by dune
look how loud some of these other minstrels are shouting about how dead the class is when its far from it.

Ain't nothing on what the archers are doing, buddy. =)
Seriously though, I agree with you. Our TL imho is a joke. Can't find the TL report where he asked for our instastun to be 15 seconds, but... well, that gave me a good laugh for starters.

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by old.LandShark

Point: rofl, you're a funny person.
Yep, lvl50 buffbot and R9 minstrel can take out nearly anything 1v1. Well, I know I'M impressed. Shame that an R1 enchanter is nearly as deadly, eh?
Now then.
Enchanters: you nuke for 600 every 2 seconds at 1500 range, you have a 9second stun with 1500 range, you have the game's best PBAE nuke, you have a snaring pet that hits for 300 at range and has more hp than my lvl50 highlander minstrel does despite it being blue. You have speed, you have self PBT, you can debuff your own damage type.

R1 chanter as dangerous as a RR9minstrel with sos, purge, ip, fa II, mop II etc, HAH
you are teh funny

chanters: we get a 533dmg DD(base dmg is 179, this is cap wich we dont always hit) at lvl 50, costs 33 power and is on a 2.6sec casttime at a range of 1500, that is not 600, i hit for 570with mom II, so thats 4RA points, and to hit for that dmg i had to spend points in mana up to 44, about 800ish specpoints would be my guess
we do not have the best pbae, mid sm has it, as mine is 2.5sec casttime with 325base dmg, sm one is 2.5sec with 331base dmg
my pet hits for 200-220dmg as shown from tests on a friend mentalist with 6heat resist, so if you say you are getting hit for 300, you are talking bs
my speed is 158%, thats minstrel speed 2? or 3?
minstrel speed 5 is 205if im not mistaken, so thats allot beter
for the 1000ish specpoints i spent in mana (up to 48) i got; 2nd best pbae, heat debuff. minstrels get for lower speccing (44-45): insta 6sec stun (yes, stun lasts 2-3seconds, mine does to and i need to cast it, boehoehoe) 29second mez, 26(ish) AE mez, speed 5, 2 insta DD's (they dont hit me for 600+, but youre not a pure caster neither so) pet charm, amnesia, healsong/powersong, remove mez. thats ALLOT more utility then i would get, and you get it for less points to.

now, im not whining about the minstrels, but if you start about chanters, get your facts straight before you open your mouth

 

[Rollie_David]

one of the main problems with the minstrel is they have the "shaman" syndrome which is mythic have no fookinn idea what they are supposed to be, at first shamans were this dark sorcerer class dealing in the dark arts, now they are buffers with heals and a sub-standard poison line, minstrels are in the same boat, they were originally designed to be a rogue but were given many support abilities so much like the shaman there a class stuck in the middle of two kinds of contrasting classes ie support/damage dealer isnt something that should be put togther as it makes the class overall weak and not useful.

 

[old.Nol]

Re: well, this is the right...

Originally posted by inuyasha

confuse (dont underestimate this as cc)

Sorry mate, but confuse does nothing in RvR, it can be used on pets, that's about it.

 

[Purefun]

Problem with ppl not having played a minstrel is they see all the abilities, and they sure look good on paper, very good even. The thing is I don't play on paper, I play the game and there none of those abilities can be combined.
If you dare to use charm you're ooe before you encounter an enemy due to twisting, so no styling (bye bye 44/39 meleespec), and it's impossible to release pet and stealth as it agroes (bye bye 29/39 stealthspec), etc ...
As I said, none of the core abilities can be combined, how fun

And including realm abilities in this discussion heh you should know better, it's true mythic thought of ra's like bandaids though they weren't given a lot of thought. Forget sos

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing
we do not have the best pbae, mid sm has it, as mine is 2.5sec casttime with 325base dmg, sm one is 2.5sec with 331base dmg

because its HIGHER LEVEL. they have to SPEND MORE POINTS to get it, just had to mention it since you masturbate to landshark insulting your 800 points in mana.

my pet hits for 200-220dmg as shown from tests on a friend mentalist with 6heat resist, so if you say you are getting hit for 300, you are talking bs

want to know how much other pets hit for. IN MELEE?

my speed is 158%, thats minstrel speed 2? or 3?minstrel speed 5 is 205if im not mistaken, so thats allot beter

spec vs baseline. again. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY POINTS THEY HAVE TO SPEND?

for the 1000ish specpoints i spent in mana (up to 48) i got; 2nd best pbae, heat debuff.

minstrels get for lower speccing (44-45): insta 6sec stun (yes, stun lasts 2-3seconds, mine does to and i need to cast it,

you forgot to mention you spend exactly 0 points to get that stun?

29second mez, 26(ish) AE mez, speed 5, 2 insta DD's (they dont hit me for 600+, but youre not a pure caster neither so) pet charm, amnesia, healsong/powersong, remove mez. thats ALLOT more utility then i would get, and you get it for less points to.

..and then we should discuss how many of them are useful in group-rvr.

now, im not whining about the minstrels, but if you start about chanters, get your facts straight before you open your mouth

that you are an overpowered flavor of the month class?

thats right.

 

[sars]

Yawn @ noobs that have not tryed out the minstrel class.... in rvr at 50.... You sure know how its like to play one bah.. comming here telling how good they are..... even more yawn

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by kedal

because its HIGHER LEVEL. they have to SPEND MORE POINTS to get it, just had to mention it since you masturbate to landshark insulting your 800 points in mana.

ohyea, 49points more is gona cut it

want to know how much other pets hit for. IN MELEE?

hey, ever thought that mellee cant be interupted?

spec vs baseline. again. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY POINTS THEY HAVE TO SPEND?

you forgot to mention you spend exactly 0 points to get that stun?

give me one minstrel who doesnt spec instruments...

..and then we should discuss how many of them are useful in group-rvr.

yea, if the average minstrel doesnt use them...

that you are an overpowered flavor of the month class?

whine more plz...

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing
ohyea, 49points more is gona cut it

so points is not an issue now. ok.

hey, ever thought that mellee cant be interupted?

forgot to mention that it melees as well as other pets?

give me one minstrel who doesnt spec instruments...

give me one enchanter who doesnt spec mana...

yea, if the average minstrel doesnt use them...

none of them are useful in groups. its that simple.

whine more plz...

fact != whine.

 

[old.Leel]

Mincer cc being crap duration is CRAP. They get double duration from good intruments, so they are as long duration as any 48 pac healer. Bards however get double the amount of that again because they have the same base value duration as pac healers and they have a GOOD INSTRUMENT FOR DOUBLE DURATION.
Don't say that mincer cc sucks, it's the form of cc that most often gets me.

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by kedal
so points is not an issue now. ok.

i said 49points isnt gona cut it, unlike 1000for an entire line to 48ish

forgot to mention that it melees as well as other pets?

so thats why it dies 4times as fast?...
(and dont tell me this is a lie, i know my own pets fgs)

give me one enchanter who doesnt spec mana...

points is 45light, stajj is respeccing 45light asap, vulcan is 45light, salazr is 45light. i gave you 4, happy?

none of them are useful in groups. its that simple.

plz, dont tell me the single mez/manasong/demezz/speed/insta stun isnt asked in grps, come on, say it and prove youre a total idiot

fact != whine.

then start posting facts (that are correct) and stop whining


ps: and yes, i HAVE played a 50minstrel for about 2weeks long and i still have the acc from that person bc he hardly plays it

 

[old.Mick]

personaly id of thought mincers would be happy, they might get to have fun in groups now instead of afk playing power song........... must be fun

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing
i said 49points isnt gona cut it, unlike 1000for an entire line to 48ish

the point is spiritmasters lose in their secondary spec if they go 49.

(and dont tell me this is a lie, i know my own pets fgs)

but you dont know others pets.

points is 45light, stajj is respeccing 45light asap, vulcan is 45light, salazr is 45light. i gave you 4, happy?

and there are at least 4 minstrels with 50 weapon, gimping their instruments line.

plz, dont tell me the single mez/manasong/demezz/speed/insta stun isnt asked in grps, come on, say it and prove youre a total idiot

SPEED/MANA - yes. a bot works fine. and thats the only thing groups ask for.

then start posting facts (that are correct) and stop whining

that enchanters are overpowered? please deny it and prove youre a total idiot.

ps: and yes, i HAVE played a 50minstrel for about 2weeks long and i still have the acc from that person bc he hardly plays it

YOU ARE TEH MINCER MASTER.

 

[Alkoran]

Lol @ mincers
Hibs and Mids hate you with a vengance, maybe you might want to get this tread moved.

At least Enchanters will admit they're overpowered (and they're not assasin immune)

Minstrels want to cry? I don't much care Go insta stun a cliff beetle.

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by kedal
the point is spiritmasters lose in their secondary spec if they go 49.

49supp and 22dark is doable, with 11items and RR2 thats 34, wich is 2/3d of their lvl wich gives low variance and thats why you get your dark up, to get less variance on your nuke wich can be done

but you dont know others pets.

ive seen other pets in action, and a buffed by the cabby amber simu is much much stronger then my companion in mellee

and there are at least 4 minstrels with 50 weapon, gimping their instruments line.

name em all, oh and look, you get to spec a weap too...

SPEED/MANA - yes. a bot works fine. and thats the only thing groups ask for.

in grps minstrel is a SUPPORT CHAR, want me to explain what that means to...

and stop whining that enchanters are overpowered? please deny it and prove youre a total idiot.

:doh:

YOU ARE TEH MINCER MASTER.

thanks for proving you are an idiot. i said that so you couldnt come off with things like; "what do you know, you never played a minstrel!!!1!1"

 

[Novamir]

errrr how can sorc changes be a bad thing?!?!

1. you will never have to play powersong in rvr (except for a wipeout and sorc no mana)
2. your group won't have to joke around by asking you to mez anything with that usless 5sec non-modifiable cast time u have on ghetto mez.

this will leave you free to do useful things which minstrels do best:

1. keep speed on at all times
2. insta on CC classes to interrupt
3. insta on mages to stop casting
4. demezz
5. tank type thing but with twice a pally's damage

and of course stealth and pet which aren't uber things but can both be very useful at times.

minstrel's are fine!

 

[Novamir]

btw m00 suxxxxxors at playing a minstrel he's not even RR4!

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing
49supp and 22dark is doable, with 11items and RR2 thats 34, wich is 2/3d of their lvl wich gives low variance and thats why you get your dark up, to get less variance on your nuke wich can be done

but not 49/23 summ for rez etc.

ive seen other pets in action, and a buffed by the cabby amber simu is much much stronger then my companion in mellee

gee. buffed > not buffed. thats damn hard to figure out.

in grps minstrel is a SUPPORT CHAR, want me to explain what that means to...

that they cant be leet luribombs?

actually, they are there for the speed and not much else.

i have a level 50 healer so i know what support char is.

:doh:

come on, deny it.

thanks for proving you are an idiot. i said that so you couldnt come off with things like; "what do you know, you never played a minstrel!!!1!1"

uh, because you have played a minstrel for 2 weeks you know everything about it. you are a leet luribomb.

 

[lightsout]

WTF can peeps not be happy with the class they play?

If u do not like the class anymore make another?

How many times does any1 hear a Caster say Damn I can not tank aswell as a TANK?

Do you hear Wardens say damn We are a light Tank but a Druid and Bard unstyled does more dmg than a Warden unstyled?

U choose a class PLAY it Do not Bitch about it.

All classes have there strong and weak points.

Sharpo STFU before he casts what Stormriderx calls Insta Alb Zerg Realm Ability on u m8. Not even your Ova powered Chanter can handle that m8. Trust me. If Reign ran out of Mana AOE mezz 5-fg Albs I do not think you can PBAOE the Insta Alb Zerg Realm Ability.

BTW Get the feck back to AoP U muppet

Reignfire Lvl 50 Light Eldritch
Lightsout Lvl 50 Warden
Latent Lvl 24 Ranger
Nightsend Lvl 29 Piercemaster

 

[hotrat]

Well minstrel will have a harder time in pve in 1.59 for sure but the power regen buff is a damn good thing in rvr. Ever been in one of those fights which lasts 5 mins and (as a minstrel) you run out of power after 1 minute, well with a power song 5 buff cast on you even in combat your power will regen faster enabling you to dd or stun again. The pala regen chant that arrived this patch certainly helps with the huge end usage a minstrel has, although i might add the shaman one is twice as good (sick of skalds running at speed song 6).
About chanters we all know they are overpowered, all very well comparing them to minstrels but lets try comparing them to their alb opposite, ice wizzies, need i say more.

Minstrels should have auto-instrument equip and charm with run song 5 should work more easily, its just a pain in the arse twisting, i would say limit it to a blue mob but allow minstrels to play songs.
Finally some form of stealth attack or something, the ae mezz from stealth just doesn't work, why? well your with your group u see enemies u stealth but wait your group cant stealth so the enemy group (upon spotting your group) naturally splits apart to avoid ae mezz and by the time you cast your 5 sec cast time ae mezz they are all miles apart.
Also the duration is far too low, 27 sec would be fine, but after considering resists and edge of radius its usually more like 5 seconds. Personally i don't like using it because if i later want to flute mezz an enemy they are immune to mezz cus i casted my gimp ae mezz on them earlier.
A solution is either to reduce the cast time or allow a minstrel to cast it while stealthed but unstealth when it lands. Or some form of double damage dd from stealth, which i would prefer cus i hate the gimp ae mezz.

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by kedal

but not 49/23 summ for rez etc.

they also have the choise to spec lower and get a lower dmg pbae

gee. buffed > not buffed. thats damn hard to figure out.

even a normal amber beats the crap out of my companion, and cabbys get baseline pet buffs so it's buffed allot more and beter then mine

that they cant be leet luribombs?

what? mr im not a l33t sb got own3d?....

actually, they are there for the speed and not much else.

read nova's post, they have more purposes then "just speed"

and stop whining that enchanters are overpowered? please deny it and prove youre a total idiot.

come on, deny it.

you still are

uh, because you have played a minstrel for 2 weeks you know everything about it. you are a leet luribomb.

by this i meant i know what a minstrel has to offer to a grp

ps: jeez its hard making a point to an idiot...

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing
they also have the choise to spec lower and get a lower dmg pbae

so have you. the point of skillpoints and secondary spec is therefore irrelevant?

even a normal amber beats the crap out of my companion, and cabbys get baseline pet buffs so it's buffed allot more and beter then mine

but then you get baseline ds etc.

what? mr im not a l33t sb got own3d?....

no i didnt get owned. i still hate leet luribombs though.

read nova's post, they have more purposes then "just speed"

they are still the "weakest" supportclass.

you still are

good argument.

by this i meant i know what a minstrel has to offer to a grp

and i know enchanters are overpowered. i mean, i have played one for 10 minutes.

ps: jeez its hard making a point to an idiot...

ps: jeez its hard making a point to a luribomb...

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by kedal
so have you. the point of skillpoints and secondary spec is therefore irrelevant?

this started of as comparison between the points i spent for what i have vs what a mincer spends for what he gets, i made my point about it

but then you get baseline ds etc.

yea, buts thats all "petbuffs" i get baseline

they are still the "weakest" supportclass.

yea, you only have a class that can actually do somthing solo and grps

and i know enchanters are overpowered. i mean, i have played one for 10 minutes.

ps: jeez its hard making a point to a luribomb...

yea, instead of actually trying to understand what i mean, you should just type a post that is a 99% copy of mine and 1% bs of you and make statements that make no sence

could you try for once to make your own post

 

[Trubble]

Minstrels are much less viable now than they used to be.

High resists is hurting minstrel shouts, and in battle they often cant be used for anything else but interrupts. Stun barely touches a tank these days.

Minstrel melee has allways been gimped, but its now the only real avenue of doing damage for a minstrel.

Stealth was nerfed with see hidden, where minstrel is the only class that does not have a counter against see hidden.

With introduction of RAs like MCL and Serenity and now powerbuf on sorcs, Minstrel no longer feels wanted for powerregen like they used to be.

All that is left is speed. This is hugely important in RvR, so of course Albion gets this ability on a gimped class.

 

[Karam_gruul]

Originally posted by Arnor2
Would you like some?

why have you got a picture of an arab on all your posts. really beginning to piss me off.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by hotrat
refering to the post a few posts above - but it's too long to quote.

I can't agree more on auto-equip, the current system is totally crap.

I agree with pet observation, either minstrel should be able to control pet when stealthed or be able to drag pet at full speed.

With regards to end regen, it's another thing bards have to twist, ever tried twisting on a crap connection?

You have stun from stealth and the ability to move and mezz combined with stealth, which means there is a good chance you can do it from behind(which alot of minstrels already do).

Landing mezzes from stealth is unrealistic, I think it would be better if they reduced the casting time, increased duration. No classes should be able to mezz from stealth, that'd be even more powerful then insta mezz - considering with insta the opposition, if they see you, have the opportunity to spread before you get into range where as with mezz from stealth, no such luck - mezz would land on group clump everytime. Also, insta's are on 10 minute time, mezz from stealth would be permanently avalable. A single mezz from stealth would be much more viable, but still in solo equations imo is too powerful.

And yes, I have played a minstrel to 50.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by Karam_gruul


why have you got a picture of an arab on all your posts. really beginning to piss me off.

That's pretty George W Bush junior of you karam...in you next post I am expecting you to say "I am sick and tired of Sadam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction, he is darkness and I am the peace loving son of light"

 

[moo_work]

kedal u cunt put the bit in ur sig the 1 line after i said that where i said 90%

IT WAS A TYPO