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Tyka
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- #2
some random g00f makes a thread about how underpowered minstrels are, and now suddenly they are extinct ? allright.
Maybe you got so much used to picking your own fights and always win or get away safely, that when you finally die one or two times you think you have been nerfed, welcome to the reality i say.
Maybe you got so much used to picking your own fights and always win or get away safely, that when you finally die one or two times you think you have been nerfed, welcome to the reality i say.
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Alrindel
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- #3
You're too lazy to whine for yourself so you just paste a link to somebody else's?
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moo_work
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- #4
yeah im too lazy to write out everything everyone already knows
check the vn forums to find nothing but posts similar to this one
can only pray that minstrels get fixed in later versions of 1.59
check the vn forums to find nothing but posts similar to this one
can only pray that minstrels get fixed in later versions of 1.59
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herjulf
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- #5
Well first off all mincers imo isnt "supposed" to be a medium tank, like for example skald.
Mincers have alot more goodies then skald in other ways like recastable stun and stun.
And are suitable for scouting with stealth, or offensive scouting with mezz/ae.
imo there isnt much things in mincers that need uptuning.
perhaps making skald/mincer health regen 2x as powerfull is one thing.
Making skald/mincer dmg song be the prioritised dmg add when it comes to stacking so lousier buffs stack ontop of it instead of viceversa /2.
these are 2 thing that should be done.
Look at mythics description on how they intended/intend the minstrel to be.
Ofc there are counter skills to mincer stealth such as see hidden and true sight.
but there isnt very many assasain chars that get it.
they prioritise passive skills more and purge for stuns etc, atleast taht is my personall experience of that matter.
I dont agree on mincers being so badly in need of a uptune, no way.
Mincers have alot more goodies then skald in other ways like recastable stun and stun.
And are suitable for scouting with stealth, or offensive scouting with mezz/ae.
imo there isnt much things in mincers that need uptuning.
perhaps making skald/mincer health regen 2x as powerfull is one thing.
Making skald/mincer dmg song be the prioritised dmg add when it comes to stacking so lousier buffs stack ontop of it instead of viceversa /2.
these are 2 thing that should be done.
Look at mythics description on how they intended/intend the minstrel to be.
Ofc there are counter skills to mincer stealth such as see hidden and true sight.
but there isnt very many assasain chars that get it.
they prioritise passive skills more and purge for stuns etc, atleast taht is my personall experience of that matter.
I dont agree on mincers being so badly in need of a uptune, no way.
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Cronn
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- #6
You've never played a minstrel have you?
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old.LandShark
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- #7
Herjulf...
You're a good skald but no offence, you'd have to never have played a minstrel to talk a load of crap like that.
This mincer dmg song - where is it, pray tell? I must have missed it somehow.
Anyhow..
Can we please stop the "omfg they gave sorcs power regen - minstrels are doomed!" shite?
A form letter/petition originated on the VN rogue board has been received en masse by Sanya, there is now an official minstrel thread on the Dev forum. All these are good signs that some attention may be coming our way.
In the mean time, can we please stop being so ungraceful about sorcs finally getting some love? Give me a break. if it makes albion competitive in RvR, well, as god is my witness, <pretends it would really makes him sad>, I'll never play powersong in RvR again.
Oh wait. That would be great, wouldn't it...
You're a good skald but no offence, you'd have to never have played a minstrel to talk a load of crap like that.
This mincer dmg song - where is it, pray tell? I must have missed it somehow.
Anyhow..
Can we please stop the "omfg they gave sorcs power regen - minstrels are doomed!" shite?
A form letter/petition originated on the VN rogue board has been received en masse by Sanya, there is now an official minstrel thread on the Dev forum. All these are good signs that some attention may be coming our way.
In the mean time, can we please stop being so ungraceful about sorcs finally getting some love? Give me a break. if it makes albion competitive in RvR, well, as god is my witness, <pretends it would really makes him sad>, I'll never play powersong in RvR again.
Oh wait. That would be great, wouldn't it...
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moo_work
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- #8
a) minstrels dont have damage song
b) minstrel is the only stealther now with no counter to see hidden (even tho see hidden was MEANT to be an archer nerf)
c) Bard is a healing/songplayer, skald is a fighting/songplayer minstrel is a stealthing/songplayer - oh wait except you cant stealth and play songs.
d) minstrel stealth is a joke for scouting lol
e) minstrel is the only rogue with no high damage attack, all other rogues get a high damage opener, minstrel does not.
theres more but like someone already pointed out im too tired/lazy to type the whole 200 page list tbh..
b) minstrel is the only stealther now with no counter to see hidden (even tho see hidden was MEANT to be an archer nerf)
c) Bard is a healing/songplayer, skald is a fighting/songplayer minstrel is a stealthing/songplayer - oh wait except you cant stealth and play songs.
d) minstrel stealth is a joke for scouting lol
e) minstrel is the only rogue with no high damage attack, all other rogues get a high damage opener, minstrel does not.
theres more but like someone already pointed out im too tired/lazy to type the whole 200 page list tbh..
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moo_work
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- #9
+ im not bitching about sorcs getting love, they needed it even more than us.
just saying, in 1.59 all minstrel is good for in groups is speed bot, and who wants a pve speedbot??
just saying, in 1.59 all minstrel is good for in groups is speed bot, and who wants a pve speedbot??
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old.LandShark
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Yep, so you made this post given there've already been 2 where we established the whole "minstrels will now only be about 1.5* better in groups than scouts, infs and cabalists" thing...
Spam!
Spam!
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moo_work
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- #11
a scout can pull, a minstrel cannot
an inf can deal damage, a minstrel cannot
a cabalist can solo 40x blue con mobs in 2 spells, a minstrel cannot
you can say black is white all you want, fact remains that unless minstrel love is given in this patch later along the line (long overdue...) then in 1.59 - minstrels will be the most gimped and useless character in pve on albion, and speedbots in rvr.
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old.LandShark
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- #12
A scout can pull. Ask a scout how often his leet pulling ph34rness got him an easy group.
an inf cannot outdamage a minstrel PvE unless he perfs every single mob or if the pullrate is too fast for the minstrel to shout on every mob.
a cabalist cannot solo 40x blue con mobs in 2 spells.
And as for the rest of that BS - well sure, in group RvR we'll only be instastunning light tanks with demezz and speed. OK. Even if I didn't solo most of the time, I'd be quite happy that I was now a speedbot/casterguard instead of a powersong/prayToGodYourTanksAreAwakeBot...
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old.LandShark
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- #13
What, a rogue?
You mean, one of those guys that can majorly majorly frontload damage provided they get the element of surprise from stealth.
Oh... rogues have stealth, don't they?
I'm sorry, I forget sometimes. ;p
Actually that's BS, i use my stealth loads and its fine for a lot of circumstances. But if you're going to tell me I'm uber, I'm going to tell you why you're talking out of your lower intenstine.
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Rollie_David
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- #14
minstrels wear chain scouts/infs do not
minstrels have lv5 speed scouts/infs do not
minstrels have stun for offensive and defensive purposes scouts/infs do not
minstrels have dd shouts that arent negated by pbt unlike all scouts attacks.
minstrels are group friendly with mezz/powersong scouts can pull and die fast, infs can damage and die fast
minstrels need a "bit" of help but nothing serious, all these "waaa my minstrel is useless now" is horseshit sorry, that is still a dam nice class that needs a few changes but certainly nothing big, maybe the charm changed so u can speed with a pet and enter combat with a pet without it going aggro on u.
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Karam_gruul
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- #15
haha minstrels sux 
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old.Xanthian
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- #16
*looks at no.1 RP holder class on Pryd & Excal*
/laugh
/laugh
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old.LandShark
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- #17
You don't know jack.
Studded + evade3 + Spec shield = far better defence than minstrel. Leather+evade7 plus decent dex/qui = far better defence than no qui, decent dex but only evade2.
Plus you have far better offence and far better stelath.
Scouts have slam for defensive purposes, infils have dragonfang/creeping death. So that's BS too.
Minstrels have DD shouts which hit for 80 on hibs if you're lucky, and a stun that last for 3 seconds against your average hib, did i mention we don't get to attack from even a third of your range?
Minstrels are more group-friendly than the other two alb rogues, I can't deny that.
We CAN speed with a pet or melee with a pet. If you think charm is where minstrels need help, then you clearly never played one, or you're some kind of freak charmer minstrel (/prods Danyan).
So, hmm. I think that deals with everything you said.
As for karam: kk
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old.Wildfire
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- #18
Stop moaning, air theurgs have been poaching my job for a few months now and you dont see me complaining do you?
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old.Nol
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- #19
If minstrels ever get the ability to play their songs from stealth...then may God help us all...
IMO instruments should be one handed, and qb fuck ups should be fixed so that playing a song automatically selects the correct instrument, instead of this constant twitting around between flute, lute and drum and still trying to be effective in battles. Reduce Mezz timers slightly and incease duration.
IMO instruments should be one handed, and qb fuck ups should be fixed so that playing a song automatically selects the correct instrument, instead of this constant twitting around between flute, lute and drum and still trying to be effective in battles. Reduce Mezz timers slightly and incease duration.
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Rollie_David
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- #20
there are other issues that a minstrel has i wont deny that, they just dont need "huge" improvemnets, end consumption on dd's needs to be lowered and please as a defensive move i would trade my slam 100% of the time for stun/mezz/sos.
Like i said i dont deny minstrel need a bit of help but you are all making out its the end of the world, come play a scout for a bit or any archer in that matter, and try shooting an arrow at hibs and watch arrow after arrow negated by pbt, try fighting an assasin, unless your super buffed or lucky to land a slam you die, archers have 2 forms of attacks both which are negated by pbt. You stand a very good chance of beating an assasin, minstrels get a very nice ra, scouts get volley and longshot. We understand your class needs a bit of a tweak but no more than some others and certainly not more than scouts.
u wanna trade your defensive speed/stun/mezz/sos/chain and low evade for my evade 3/studded and shield spec, hell thats not even worth answering. A few tweaks and minstrels will be fine, dd shouts unfortunately like all spells will be resisted but the end consumption does suck as does the interface.
Like i said i dont deny minstrel need a bit of help but you are all making out its the end of the world, come play a scout for a bit or any archer in that matter, and try shooting an arrow at hibs and watch arrow after arrow negated by pbt, try fighting an assasin, unless your super buffed or lucky to land a slam you die, archers have 2 forms of attacks both which are negated by pbt. You stand a very good chance of beating an assasin, minstrels get a very nice ra, scouts get volley and longshot. We understand your class needs a bit of a tweak but no more than some others and certainly not more than scouts.
u wanna trade your defensive speed/stun/mezz/sos/chain and low evade for my evade 3/studded and shield spec, hell thats not even worth answering. A few tweaks and minstrels will be fine, dd shouts unfortunately like all spells will be resisted but the end consumption does suck as does the interface.
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inuyasha
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- #21
well, this is the right...
Minchers useless?
BS!
add:
area mess
mess while running
hp regen song
confuse (dont underestimate this as cc)
runsong!
stealth
charm...
Not really sure what you are speaking of
This is a class who can do ANYTHING, so dont really assume its the best at either of them, lol. Watch alpha, i can quote him on the fact that he can beat ANY class in a one on one, and in main rvr they can provide with pets much MUCH worse then the enchanter pet (not sure if you have been close to pets like "wintery dirgers" and any dirger really? chain mess pets with blasts.... In a melee duel, they can usually dont do much, but why do a melee duel you know you loose? They easy kill any mage (nr.1 foe, area mess + dds + stun....) In pve groups, they can be main tank/cc'er + they have chants between or in combat as well... the confuse can save ANY mage or healer as its instant, and they have rather good melee skills...
So stfu, just case albs have all the fun classes, it dont mean they get worse case other alb classes get more We also have two mana regeners, ments and bards, but ments is not worse then bards just case bards also have mr
What my enchanter can do is to:
stun
blast
area attack speed decrease
make a pet
do pet commands
.....
i have no stash at all, no armor no weapon, no stealth, no melee skills....
i DO outdamage alpha at 1300 range though =))
Minchers useless?
BS!
add:
area mess
mess while running
hp regen song
confuse (dont underestimate this as cc)
runsong!
stealth
charm...
Not really sure what you are speaking of
This is a class who can do ANYTHING, so dont really assume its the best at either of them, lol. Watch alpha, i can quote him on the fact that he can beat ANY class in a one on one, and in main rvr they can provide with pets much MUCH worse then the enchanter pet (not sure if you have been close to pets like "wintery dirgers" and any dirger really? chain mess pets with blasts.... In a melee duel, they can usually dont do much, but why do a melee duel you know you loose? They easy kill any mage (nr.1 foe, area mess + dds + stun....) In pve groups, they can be main tank/cc'er + they have chants between or in combat as well... the confuse can save ANY mage or healer as its instant, and they have rather good melee skills...
So stfu, just case albs have all the fun classes, it dont mean they get worse case other alb classes get more
We also have two mana regeners, ments and bards, but ments is not worse then bards just case bards also have mr What my enchanter can do is to:
stun
blast
area attack speed decrease
make a pet
do pet commands
.....
i have no stash at all, no armor no weapon, no stealth, no melee skills....
i DO outdamage alpha at 1300 range though =))
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old.LandShark
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- #22
No, i want to trade your evade3/camo/shield spec/2x specpts AND LONGBOW, YOU SCREAMING MORON.
You think a scout that doesn't have a bow is worse than a minstrel - well no shit sherlock, thanks for the tip.
I'll be that in mind - now, which bit of my sword do I hit them with?
Nol: I quite agree. Being able to play a song in stealth would be pointless, completely illogical and prevent us getting any real help.
Autoequipping instruments shouldn't be considered an <opposite of nerf... buff?> to minstrels and bards, merely a bringing-in-line-with-skalds and reducing the amount of broken fingers.
WF: I'm not whinging about sorc power regen, so i hope you aren't talking to me.
Dune: get a clue. I've played scout at 50 solo and grouped, I've played minstrel at 50 solo and grouped, scout is better off solo, minstrel is better off grouped. Both classes need a very small amount of loving to be fine. My post on VNboard Dev forum official minstrel thread suggested evade3 and reduced power/end cost on DDs.
Point: rofl, you're a funny person.
Yep, lvl50 buffbot and R9 minstrel can take out nearly anything 1v1. Well, I know I'M impressed. Shame that an R1 enchanter is nearly as deadly, eh?
Now then.
Enchanters: you nuke for 600 every 2 seconds at 1500 range, you have a 9second stun with 1500 range, you have the game's best PBAE nuke, you have a snaring pet that hits for 300 at range and has more hp than my lvl50 highlander minstrel does despite it being blue. You have speed, you have self PBT, you can debuff your own damage type.
Right, that's as much bullshit as you/dune's amusing little list of minstrel abilities.
Have a nice day; come back when you've played a minstrel.
I quite agree.
BS.
You think a scout that doesn't have a bow is worse than a minstrel - well no shit sherlock, thanks for the tip.
I'll be that in mind - now, which bit of my sword do I hit them with?
Nol: I quite agree. Being able to play a song in stealth would be pointless, completely illogical and prevent us getting any real help.
Autoequipping instruments shouldn't be considered an <opposite of nerf... buff?> to minstrels and bards, merely a bringing-in-line-with-skalds and reducing the amount of broken fingers.
WF: I'm not whinging about sorc power regen, so i hope you aren't talking to me.
Dune: get a clue. I've played scout at 50 solo and grouped, I've played minstrel at 50 solo and grouped, scout is better off solo, minstrel is better off grouped. Both classes need a very small amount of loving to be fine. My post on VNboard Dev forum official minstrel thread suggested evade3 and reduced power/end cost on DDs.
Point: rofl, you're a funny person.
Yep, lvl50 buffbot and R9 minstrel can take out nearly anything 1v1. Well, I know I'M impressed. Shame that an R1 enchanter is nearly as deadly, eh?
Now then.
Enchanters: you nuke for 600 every 2 seconds at 1500 range, you have a 9second stun with 1500 range, you have the game's best PBAE nuke, you have a snaring pet that hits for 300 at range and has more hp than my lvl50 highlander minstrel does despite it being blue. You have speed, you have self PBT, you can debuff your own damage type.
Right, that's as much bullshit as you/dune's amusing little list of minstrel abilities.
Have a nice day; come back when you've played a minstrel.
I quite agree.
BS.
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Arnor
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- #23
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Rollie_David
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- #24
landshark are you unable to put points across without resulting to verbal abuse, thats usually the sign that someone is struggling to put forward a justified point.
and tbh from what you have wrote its quite surprising you have played a minstrel, dont forget scouts get 2.0 spc points due to them having more lines to invest in. How about you try putting suggestions forward without calling people names. I have played both and currently they are both classes in need of love.
but as i pointed out above to the guy trying to justify that scouts were more useful to groups than minstrels that scouts are currently ALOT worse off, we cannot crit from stealth, we cannot crit on a person SITTING, every other clas can we cant, EVERY form of my scouts attack is negated by pbt/miss/fumble rates that are sky high, you have ways of beating classes with pbt up or at least defending yourself via stun/mezz/sos and semi decent weapon skill(not great but certainly betterthan scouts). Now how about you try and put points forward without looking like a kid who cant argue/debate without insulting.
edit:to the guy talking about his chanter, crack is a baaaddd thing.
and tbh from what you have wrote its quite surprising you have played a minstrel, dont forget scouts get 2.0 spc points due to them having more lines to invest in. How about you try putting suggestions forward without calling people names
. I have played both and currently they are both classes in need of love.but as i pointed out above to the guy trying to justify that scouts were more useful to groups than minstrels that scouts are currently ALOT worse off, we cannot crit from stealth, we cannot crit on a person SITTING, every other clas can we cant, EVERY form of my scouts attack is negated by pbt/miss/fumble rates that are sky high, you have ways of beating classes with pbt up or at least defending yourself via stun/mezz/sos and semi decent weapon skill(not great but certainly betterthan scouts). Now how about you try and put points forward without looking like a kid who cant argue/debate without insulting.
edit:to the guy talking about his chanter, crack is a baaaddd thing.
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Jergiot
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- #25
lmao
minsers whining about scouts being better, now thats a laugh =P
*kiss* chera -_-
minsers whining about scouts being better, now thats a laugh =P
*kiss* chera -_-
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katt!
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- #26
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old.LandShark
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- #27
Dune...
You said that you would swap a longbow-less scout for a minstrel, anyday, and expected that to prove a point of some kind.
Ergo, you're a moron.
I don't actually care if you think my point is invalid.
Jerg: hmmm, I seem to remember us owning gorge this morning - it wasn't me and aduro doing the killing. We were crowd controlling and you were doing the dmg with your suckey, nerfed, 100% miss/fumble/BT rate bow!
I said it already, and I stand by it: truly solo, a scout is better than a minstrel. You guys have been nerfed a lot more over time than we have, but you always have been better and you still are. End of story.
oh and btw Jergi... I am not whining about scouts being better, I am whining at morons who think they can stand around all day and tell me how incredibly invicible and leet I am, and then just because I say they're stupid, they must be right.
This I can safely say is BS.
Anyhow.... ok, I edited out the bit where I called you a moron, Dune!
I'm right now, yeah?
You said that you would swap a longbow-less scout for a minstrel, anyday, and expected that to prove a point of some kind.
Ergo, you're a moron.
I don't actually care if you think my point is invalid.
Jerg: hmmm, I seem to remember us owning gorge this morning - it wasn't me and aduro doing the killing. We were crowd controlling and you were doing the dmg with your suckey, nerfed, 100% miss/fumble/BT rate bow!
I said it already, and I stand by it: truly solo, a scout is better than a minstrel. You guys have been nerfed a lot more over time than we have, but you always have been better and you still are. End of story.
oh and btw Jergi... I am not whining about scouts being better, I am whining at morons who think they can stand around all day and tell me how incredibly invicible and leet I am, and then just because I say they're stupid, they must be right.
This I can safely say is BS.
Anyhow.... ok, I edited out the bit where I called you a moron, Dune!
I'm right now, yeah?
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old.LandShark
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OK, last post was too nice after I re-read your latest reply.
Tbh, you're a tit.
I DID put forward justified and reasoned points without using any kind of verbal abuse.
You then said a load of stuff which wasn't true, and expected it to stand?
OK, here's my justified and reasoned (as opposed to "you're a moron, shut up") reply:
Everything you said is wrong, apart from the bit about Point being on crack.
Tbh, you're a tit.
I DID put forward justified and reasoned points without using any kind of verbal abuse.
You then said a load of stuff which wasn't true, and expected it to stand?
OK, here's my justified and reasoned (as opposed to "you're a moron, shut up") reply:
Everything you said is wrong, apart from the bit about Point being on crack.
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Rollie_David
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- #29
i was referring to defence in th part i think your referring to, anyhows pages of stuff being said over and over is pointless i just think some people go overboard on how bad minstrels actually are, i dont think you do landshark as you seem to recognize minstrels arent dead just need a few tweaks.
edit: nice to see nothing changes with you landshark, u dont agree therefore the person is a moron and a tit
/wave
edit: nice to see nothing changes with you landshark, u dont agree therefore the person is a moron and a tit
/wave
H
Hit ^_^
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- #30
buy a second acc and make a buff bot?