Minstrels, do me a favour...

[old.LandShark]

The skalds on VN who keep making threads like "Seriously Mythic, skalds need help." crack me up.
Mind you, so do the constant "So, any minstrels that haven't given up?" threads.

 

[Ottar]

> for a caster you take a 1h non styled swing to remove BT.

Good in theory. In majority of cases pretty much impossible (at least for me) in practice. Folks keep telling skalds they are "finesse" chars and use "tactics". Bollocks. In 1v1 or in really small fights (2v2, 3v3) skald can do tricks, sure.

In large fights, there is one simple reason why skald cant apply much finess - he is very much in the midst of chaotic melee combat. That means he has very little overview of what goes around him as much of the visible area is blocked by other melee around him. He is busily hacking away on his chosen target and in case he went deep inside enemy lines to attack casters, he more likely than not has at least one more caster locked on him and maybe one or more melees on his tail. All he can do is to try to survive and do some damage meanwhile.

This is nothing, I repeat, nothing like folks who do not directly engage in melee. I've played a caster. Caster stays in range, he sees what goes on around, can switch targets better, has that crucial 1 second time to switch quickbars. Much better situational awarness. Much more opportunity for finesse.

Switching between weapons in combat, between different opponents while running around in melee like a madman, is not particularly worth it. You have to make that choice beforehand, with slow 2hander that makes you perhaps 30% less effective against casters with bladeturn or 2h which makes you 25% more effective against all targets. Repeat, you can do any kinds of fancy footwork in 1v1 situation. In 2FG v 2FG, good luck with fumbling around with your quickbars.

> and they are essential to groups for the speed, dmg add and snare.

Forget dmg add and snare. Dmg add has short range and even when applied to all melees in yer group, does not win battles. Snare is good for catching runners and that is what skalds are really good at, much better than a minstrel without SoS, almost as good as minstrel with SoS. But then again, catching runners is tactically secondary objective. Catching runners takes place when the battle is already essentially won.

Skalds are good to groups. Group without speed and preferrably permasprint are poor groups indeed. For providing our groups with speed, a skald gives up more than half of melee damage, good junk of HP, cheaper RA's and good portion of defence. It is good to be in a group with a skald. It is not so good to be that skald.


As for tactics and finesse.. the best tactics for a skald is not to get Purge. Get mezzed. Then stand there until it wears out. If your group is still alive by that time, go assist someone. Then, maye sprint and catch some runner. Efficient way to gain RP's. Real lousy fun-factor. Good thing is, were always in a group with speed, bad thing is we aint the zerkers in that group


Darn thing is, fixes like doing away with the endurance usage of our DD's and songs dropping pulses would in the end not really do much for the fun-factor. Neither would better support as folks are quite happy with us providing speed and nothing else. Only easy thing that would make skalds fun to play both in and out of melee would be moving us (and thanes) for that matter from hybrid to viking HP table. That would hopefully elliminate the need to sit back during the start of a fight and hope some tougher guy goes in and starts hacking first. Still leaves us withs damage output lower than that of a aug healer but we would be able to do the "tie down some opponents" thing with a chance of actually survivng the exercise.


Ottar

 

[old.Cher]

okay now for my 2 cents

i've played all three song classes, skald and minstrel to lvl 38 and bard till lvl 30. i found the bard to be the most boring creation the world had made, mostly because i like being able to do some damage, i actually found bards worse then minstrels in my want to play them, since in rvr minstrels are fun, many times i've wizzed about with speed song 4 and found an odd target, i could even solo with my minstrel if i really wanted to.

With my bard i got bored, grouping is nice but 4 months ago hibernia's population wasn't really that huge, and soloing with a bard meant bloody hard work even taking a blue down.

skald was nice, it wasn't mega huge damage, but i could do enough to hurt anything that looked at me in the wrong way, and even if there were loads of skalds around i could still solo to a degree.

In the end everyone wants thre class to be fixed since everyone has a particular problem, but the fact is that all three classes have particular advantages ad weakness's. a class without a weakness makes the game very boring, very fast.

to make a class where it can kill any char type of any build without breaking a sweat is just a mistake, since it creates a massive rush of people joining that realm and being that class to be uber..... anyone remember the bloody smite cleric rush and the infiltrator rush?

i have always been happy playing an under dog so i guess my views don't stand for all people, but i find the joy of successfully killing a class that is considered Uber much more fun then being a class that everyone complains about.

<i'm a nightshade so only half the normal whiners whine about me >

anyhow if this made no sense then i'm sorry its early in england and i'm very tired.!

 

[eben]

Originally posted by Arnor2
well, eben: I take it you do think its fair that you should have evade 5 and fireballs from ass.

And yeah, very nice "shit eating grin" you fucking 5yr old

What I said was that they need a role in pve, and something of a boost in rvr. Not evade 5 and fireball-shooting asses like someone suggested.
So shut the fuck up you flaming worthless shit.

oh, and mommy! he started it!

Quote me where I asked for evade 5 and fireballs then shitwit? You can't because I never asked for them. My point is that minstrels need something. Difference between you and I is that I have a high minstrel and I fully understand what impact the number of minstrels quitting the game is gonna have on EVERYONE...including dickheads like you who, let me remind you, start off your post laughing about quite reasonable suggestions for a class you don't even play:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Add Evade III
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

evade 3 and chain my arse

edit: OMG! read further down, and lo&behold:5. Evade III or IV
mmm, yes mincers need evade 4 and chain.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Shouts get resisted because they are body
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ignorance of some ppl

On these two alone you really wound up the minstrel community. Evade 3 for minstrels is not a bad suggestion. Minstrel and skalds for that matter need help with their DDs. All you can do is make smart-arse remarks and spam smileys like you're all friendly.

If you put this line first it really changes the interpretation of your post:

"What I said was that they need a role in pve, and something of a boost in rvr."

Then you win the reader straightaway. Then we could all laugh about the silly ideas. But first up you showed no sincerety. I think considered thinking appears to be something you don't grasp.

Of course there are some outrageous ideas, but I would have taken a far different opinion had you been more sincere about the misery of fellow gamers. But no, you have to be a dick and take cheap shots.

And yes wipe that shit eating grin off your face - almost all the posts you make on the boards are inflammatory and laughing at other peoples expense. You're a fucking board troll and wind-up merchant.

5 yr old? Try adding 28 on to that if your capable. Worthless? I think not. At least I have the intelligence and perspective to see where all realms need help. All you seem to possess is the ability to write OMFG, fireball and spam smileys. What a great sage!

When I used to play mid I had you on my friends list and we xped together. How the fuck you ended up such a wanker I do not know.

<adds another idiot to ignore list>

 

[Damon_D]

Originally posted by sharma
Skalds gimped?

skalds are the highest rp holding class on the UK servers.

Aye because every group need one for speed , its not because the skald is uber , a skald is an ok rounded char , still need a few fixes , with songs dropping and the end use on shouts ( same as minstrels ) . Minstrels are a fine char type , maybe needs a few fixes like the skald , but nothing major , peopel need to realise you cant specc for uber skills in all spec lines with a minstrel . A skald spec's in two lines weapon and battlesong what ever is left is dumped into parry taking it to something between 2 and 16, for a minstrel that means if u want good song and melee expect to have lousy stealth , good song and stealth dont expect to out melee anyone , regarding being spotted with RA's , see hidden and true sight should never have been in the game..nuff said

 

[old.Xarr]

sclad is teh cheet!!!"##¤"#¤!!§111111

 

[old.LandShark]

Sorry I ever posted this now.
I don't think my class is a gimp, I don't think we need anything huge, I just wanted the minstrels in this community to go to that VNboards thread and bump it in the hope of getting some rudimentary fixes. I did not want to start a 2-page flamefest.
Hands up if you play a minstrel at RvR levels...
K. Those of you with your hands down, sod off.
Those of you with your hands up... have you bumped the VNboard thread? If not, why not?

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by Ottar
> for a caster you take a 1h non styled swing to remove BT.

Good in theory. In majority of cases pretty much impossible (at least for me) in practice. Folks keep telling skalds they are "finesse" chars and use "tactics". Bollocks. In 1v1 or in really small fights (2v2, 3v3) skald can do tricks, sure.

In large fights, there is one simple reason why skald cant apply much finess - he is very much in the midst of chaotic melee combat. That means he has very little overview of what goes around him as much of the visible area is blocked by other melee around him. He is busily hacking away on his chosen target and in case he went deep inside enemy lines to attack casters, he more likely than not has at least one more caster locked on him and maybe one or more melees on his tail. All he can do is to try to survive and do some damage meanwhile.

This is nothing, I repeat, nothing like folks who do not directly engage in melee. I've played a caster. Caster stays in range, he sees what goes on around, can switch targets better, has that crucial 1 second time to switch quickbars. Much better situational awarness. Much more opportunity for finesse.

Switching between weapons in combat, between different opponents while running around in melee like a madman, is not particularly worth it. You have to make that choice beforehand, with slow 2hander that makes you perhaps 30% less effective against casters with bladeturn or 2h which makes you 25% more effective against all targets. Repeat, you can do any kinds of fancy footwork in 1v1 situation. In 2FG v 2FG, good luck with fumbling around with your quickbars.

You realize you are talking to one of the first hybrid heroes on excalibur, right? If you dont get my point with that sentence, let me explain.

Novamir has, for about 8 months or so, been doing "slam, press spear button, style, when target dead press shield + sword buttons, slam again, spear, style" every fuggin fight hes been in(i know its an exaggeration , but it proves a point).

If a hero can do what you say a skald cant in this quote "Repeat, you can do any kinds of fancy footwork in 1v1 situation. In 2FG v 2FG, good luck with fumbling around with your quickbars." then a god damn skald can do it too.´

Oh and just to be "on-topic". Give something to mincers to at least help them in PvE after 1.59. Oh and removing end usage for ALL shouts is one thing i do support