Minstrel, why?

[Sobek]

What the hell are you talking about, stay off the drugs and ppl might be able to understand what you mean.

Your just more stupid than a regular player tbh..

Bards come from the Naturalist line (Support/healing)
Skalds come from the Viking line (Fighter line)
Minstrels come from the Rogue line (Stealther)

IMO remove stealth from Minstrel and give them parry, then they will be a better version of the skald.

By doing that, they would need to make us a fighter class, which would leave us with more hp, and more weapon skill, honestly i wouldnt mind that... get a grip really.

And you said i should get off the drugs?

 

[Succi]

Yes , mincers are the kings of 1v1 and their RA's need a nerf (which is inc)

Fully buffed with ToA it's easy to get over 800af.. when that is combined with abla (which can be twisted to make more effective) they have great survivability. When you add their kind of utility to stealth groups... it's really sick

Unfortunately (or lucky for me) 95% of mincers of prydwen dont have a clue, so that kinda balences it out (the better ones tend to group not solo/stealth)


and yes , I have a 5L9 mincer before you use the old playing before whining crap

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

when the class makes it so easy for people like rains, arauddry etc etc to just line up PA, with 0 challenge is just rediculous, then of course if u have purge up and use it on their mez, they hit the insta we win stun button.

You are basically whining b/c u get killed 2vs1...?

 

[snopy]

gifv stealth to skalds and insta stunn insted of insta mezz

 

[remi]

savages should get stealth imo, makes more sense then minstrels getting it

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

imo. minstrels ruin albion balance more then anything.. most classes in albion have 0 utility but the minstrel have a shitload of it.... give some of that utility to chars that need it.. like ablative chant to clerics or something...

Minstrels got ablative b/c sorc got MR buff.
And u cant compare a healer to a rouge class. Healers heal n buff/interrupt in some cases. Healers got new toys when TOA was introduced = more utility. And i also wanna say that healers do thier primary thing very good, 1) healing 2) buffing and minstrels they got no "real" class defenition, they aint the best at anything so I guess thats why they got a lil bit more toys.
If u look into the toys a minstrel gets that makes them have a "shitload of utility" u will find, AOE mess 5-6 s cast and a green "hey iam a minstrel interrupt me while iam casting stick on thier ass", same with there demess "hey, iam a minstrel i'm demessing my grp stick". You will find ABLATIVE wich is very good 1 vs 1 and usefull in grps but not THAT usefull since 70 dmg reduction every 6s aint that effective vs tank assist trains. Then minstrel got STEALTH, to spec high n effective in stealth you have to sacrify something -> weapon spec.
Minstrels got DD's so do skalds and bards got ONE DD, but they aint compareable to minstrels nor are skalds since thet aint the same "class"... minstrels are rouges, skalds are hybrid fighters and bards healer/support class.
The point iam trying to make is that Minstrels got alot of toys but not the BEST verions of the toys ( if u follow me, sorc got i.e quicker demess/mess and not the green stick screaming here I am )
Also bards have a "shitload of utility" but I don't see any friars complaining about it, "we cant mess, cant amnesia, cant play spd cant MR song etc"

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

well.. the problem isnt that they are ghetto.. the problem is that they have so fucking many of them.... spread out the minstrels utility on classes that need them and slightly boost the once the minstrel can keep..

and dont come and tell me the mincer single target mezz is ghetto my shammy was mezzed for 5 mins straight once, ok i had like very little body resistance but still almost made me scream in frustration while the mincer was killing my duo mate.. didnt know it worked like that that song should interrupt when going in combat mode /cry

If we gonna start talk about spreading utility around then why dont we start talk about healers and savages, give some of thier utility to thanes...
- Sounds redicolous right?.....

 

[nuky]

You are basically whining b/c u get killed 2vs1...?

i am whining because pretty much the majority of alb stealthers cant PA without having a target mez'd that cannot do anything to avoid it. i have ran through a mg, to have maybe 1 / 2 / 3+ infils miss PA, then have a mincer drop mez and the infils wait until they can stealth again and have a sitting target. its just silly, imo.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

It's Mythic, what do you expect? They are even bringing archers close to the stealth gods they were back in the day with NF

TBH ur whining to mutch about the solo part, a stealther should HAVE the upper hand vs a non stealther thats how its meant to be. An assasin is a KILLER/MURER etc, they should be better in the solo encounters...
When it comes to grps who want an infil there, a scout, a sb etc? Noone b/c they have no good grp utilites and it should be that way.
Mythic made it this way proberly to give some change in the RvR. If u got a caster and go out solo alone u should have a hard time vs a archer/assasin, b/c they r designed to kill solo targets.
Then ofc a caster with high rr, ml's and ub0r items can suprise use and his class skills (etc) and dont put himself in sit's where an assasin could/would have the upper hand in a fight.

 

[Jaem-]

theres at least 1-2 overpowered spells/abilities/classes/races or a combo of the lot in every realm, whining/discussing it won't help much but bring flamers etc ;P

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

The minstrel in itself is not overpowered no, but the impact the class has on stealthwar is stupid, thats what Frust said. Learn to read the post before shooting your mouth off mmmk?

I do think that no class should have stealth and chain tho, just because the whole idea of it is ridiculous, I mean who the hell tries to sneak around wearing a ton of armor on him.

IMO remove stealth from Minstrel and give them parry, then they will be a better version of the skald.
Frust said that it wouldnt be fair to the ones who made a minstrel to play stealther, I say tough luck, ppl have had to reroll characters after many many patches, this would be no different.

Minstrels got chain wich is vuln to most other assasins weapons right?
Minstrel got low WS due to low spec points wich means they have to sacrify something, weapon dmg/songs/stealth.
TBH minstrels aint overpowered in stealth wars or stealth 1v1 encounters. If a minstrel jump a sb wich is SLASH vuln, should the sb have the upper hand anyway?
I can rephrase it like this, should a scout that gets jumped and nuked by a caster have the upper hand?
No ofc not, but they should if they "cunter-play" the attacking enemy have a chance to win, a sb can purge, use end pots, snare n run, etc etc.
If a SB PA's a minstrel then the minstrel would not have a great chance of survival IF, they dont use sos,ip,purge,ap (high rr mins) etc? - And imo thats how the sit is today. If u use ur class abilities to the full and attack targets that u know will have a hard time vs u then u have a great chance winning.
A minstrel attacking a SB have the upper hand in most sit and proberly would win but not 100% b/c the SB can have alot better EQ, higher RR, more experiance in RvR and well thought-out QB's that make everything easier.
It's the same thing if u try to compare SB VS random caster. If the caster gets the upper hand in a fight using his class abilities perfect he could win very easy, right? But if a SB uses his class abilities to full extence, like PA the caster while sitting then he will proberly win, IF not the caster uses "counter-attacks", such as purge, moc QB+CC spell and this will even out the battle again, of here the SB have a choice he can run away n stealth in some sit's ( i mean he got stealth so he can choice what fights he wanna engage so he can choice a place/fight where he has a poss to escape etc )

I think all this whine "Why cant my SB* kill ALL chars is kinda narrowminded, b/c the game is designed so u have to think abit and know what classes u usually have a hard time vs and come up with strats... to counter them... this strats can be as simple as not walking through a milegate alone. ( *other classes then sbs aswell ofc, just an example ).

I mean there is tons of classes my minstrel would NEVER go close if i didnt knew that THEIR char was/is weaker then the general pop... of them. I.e a low rr epic berz, that my minstrel quiet frankly wtfpwn. But a high rr TOA-sced and Buffboted berz, i wouldnt go near him tbh. And I would use my class abilities to avoid an encounter or flee from a fight that goes bad.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

About minstrel soloing, they dont win by playing easily, they win by the effort they put into it, dont think most people realise how much a minstrel has to do ?

Agree, like i stated b4, u need to choose right targets know what diffrent "counter-strats" u need to be ready to do and EQ ur char to the max if not ur not even entitled to whine... that ur warrior looses to an "overpowered" minstrel etc. Minstrel have alot of good stuff, agree with that but nothing is overpowered... a good class with an excellent player behind it that knows what to do in all kind of sit's should win vs f8randomplayer that played his char for 1 month and uses bad/okej items ml0 etc... thats how i think the game should be...

I think more ppl need to understand that its not only sure that a healer wont kill a tank but also that a light tank in poor items shouldnt have it easy vs a assasin/wathever just b/c on the paper he got more str and life...

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

I would say heroes are better than warriors.. moose mode?

Cant say a char is better then another, depends on sit, items, rr,mls and what type of RvR he / his grp r doing ...

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

was killed by a mincer a total of 13 times last night / this morning, if u think what they / u do is hard u r just lying to urself

Well have u considered that u maybe didnt played that well vs him? Have u even thought out what weakness a minstrel can have?
My minstrel got 6 QB's that i use alot, i use 4 in all fights. Compare my 4 QB's to a savages 1.5 QB... and u will see wich char is the most "teqnical" hard to play, then ofc minstrel vs a caster migth not be so hard but on the other hand it depends what the caster has in his liddul bag of suprise.
I mean just that thing that u dont instant purge a minstrel that dd+mess u will confuse him alot and make him change QB's a nummerous of time b/c he dont really know whats gonna hit him, 1) u dont have purge and he can rest safe for 15 s till dd's return 2) ur bluffing n w8ing till minstrel sit down with PS/LR etc...
TBH instead of whining u need to try to be creative n think of stuff that really help u in RvR instead of just point the finger "he killed me, he is overpowered, he is not skilled"

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

tho i must admit, the first time i read about that song mezz back in early release, i acually did believe that they could perma mezz someone as long as they could....

Thats b/c they could...

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

like infils?

Like, Ns,Sbs, Savges, Zerkers, mercs, bms, rangers...?

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

<Insert FotM class here>


Funny how the whines revolve, from BDs and Savages to Infs and Minstrels Chanters to Bards (yes i remeber the whines long ago). Tbh any class which is played to its potential, makes use of a powerful style/skill/spell or in a plays in a certain style gets whined at.

Just face facts that most classes are good when played well and used in certain curcumstances, whether or not ppl play that role to the extreme doesnt mean that they will be uber when played in a significantly other role, just that they have found a niche .....


I read these boards and long to read something truely riviting, but the game doesnt support any new and interesting threads any more, a simple break down into Whines about xxxx person/class, Grats xxxx person @ xxxx RR, and thats about it. The rest is fluff like Mythic and GoAs patch notes/Friday news.

weee u got it m8 ) /hug

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

What the hell are you talking about, stay off the drugs and ppl might be able to understand what you mean.

He means ( i think ) that if u fiddle around with minstrel skills i.e giving them parry taking away stealth, then they r no longer stealthers = they will be light tanks/hybrids, wich is another dmg table... and what is the diffrence between a skald and a minstrel when both got parry n r "hybrids".

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Yes , mincers are the kings of 1v1 and their RA's need a nerf (which is inc)

Fully buffed with ToA it's easy to get over 800af.. when that is combined with abla (which can be twisted to make more effective) they have great survivability. When you add their kind of utility to stealth groups... it's really sick

Unfortunately (or lucky for me) 95% of mincers of prydwen dont have a clue, so that kinda balences it out (the better ones tend to group not solo/stealth)


and yes , I have a 5L9 mincer before you use the old playing before whining
crap

Well I dont see anything "bad" with ap3...tho maybe its okej for u to have it b/c ur a NS and ur supposed to "suck" right? As if...

"And yes , I have a 5L9 nightshade before you use the old playing before whining"

 

[Edlina]

omg stop spamming the thread with posts...

 

[Vladamir]

minstrels need to loose either stealth, or mez and insta stun.

Bear in mind if they lost stealth, then they'd have to redo the base class, which the only viable one would be to place them in the fighter class?. Then what, you can't have a fighter with only 2 spec lines, guess they'd have to be given shield/2h/parry?. Similar to skalds regarding the latter 2?, in terms of spec lines, i mean.

 

[Kreig]

U spamed a lot Matriarch, BUT it is all relavant and imo answers any whine that can be brought forward about minstrels. People just have to take the time to read it all and understand it instead of picking out 1 comment and randomly ranting about it.

Good stuff.

 

[Platina]

Can almost c then whine threads from Martiach in Nf :>

 

[Dumle]

Your just more stupid than a regular player tbh..

Bards come from the Naturalist line (Support/healing)
Skalds come from the Viking line (Fighter line)
Minstrels come from the Rogue line (Stealther)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumle
IMO remove stealth from Minstrel and give them parry, then they will be a better version of the skald.
Frust said that it wouldnt be fair to the ones who made a minstrel to play stealther, I say tough luck, ppl have had to reroll characters after many many patches, this would be no different.

quote: Sobek
That removes Bards being Support, Skalds Being Hybrid, Minstrel being stealther?


I still dont know what the hell you mean by that reply, thats what I meant with stay off the drugs

Why would removing stealth from minstrels make skald less of a hybrid and bard less of a support? Sure it would make minstrel less of a stealther, thats the whole point.
Try and make some sense please, I know english isnt your first language, same goes for me and I sometimes I dont make myself understood because of it, but that sentance from you sounded like you were wasted or something.
Btw do you live in Kristiania?

By doing that, they would need to make us a fighter class, which would leave us with more hp, and more weapon skill, honestly i wouldnt mind that... get a grip really.

And you said i should get off the drugs?

And ofcooourse minstrels should have a WS and HP boost if they remove stealth, they should have same as other hybrids, I thought that was obvious thats why i didnt mention it

 

[Dumle]

Minstrels got chain wich is vuln to most other assasins weapons right?
Minstrel got low WS due to low spec points wich means they have to sacrify something, weapon dmg/songs/stealth.
TBH minstrels aint overpowered in stealth wars or stealth 1v1 encounters. If a minstrel jump a sb wich is SLASH vuln, should the sb have the upper hand anyway?
I can rephrase it like this, should a scout that gets jumped and nuked by a caster have the upper hand?
No ofc not, but they should if they "cunter-play" the attacking enemy have a chance to win, a sb can purge, use end pots, snare n run, etc etc.
If a SB PA's a minstrel then the minstrel would not have a great chance of survival IF, they dont use sos,ip,purge,ap (high rr mins) etc? - And imo thats how the sit is today. If u use ur class abilities to the full and attack targets that u know will have a hard time vs u then u have a great chance winning.
A minstrel attacking a SB have the upper hand in most sit and proberly would win but not 100% b/c the SB can have alot better EQ, higher RR, more experiance in RvR and well thought-out QB's that make everything easier.
It's the same thing if u try to compare SB VS random caster. If the caster gets the upper hand in a fight using his class abilities perfect he could win very easy, right? But if a SB uses his class abilities to full extence, like PA the caster while sitting then he will proberly win, IF not the caster uses "counter-attacks", such as purge, moc QB+CC spell and this will even out the battle again, of here the SB have a choice he can run away n stealth in some sit's ( i mean he got stealth so he can choice what fights he wanna engage so he can choice a place/fight where he has a poss to escape etc )

I think all this whine "Why cant my SB* kill ALL chars is kinda narrowminded, b/c the game is designed so u have to think abit and know what classes u usually have a hard time vs and come up with strats... to counter them... this strats can be as simple as not walking through a milegate alone. ( *other classes then sbs aswell ofc, just an example ).

I mean there is tons of classes my minstrel would NEVER go close if i didnt knew that THEIR char was/is weaker then the general pop... of them. I.e a low rr epic berz, that my minstrel quiet frankly wtfpwn. But a high rr TOA-sced and Buffboted berz, i wouldnt go near him tbh. And I would use my class abilities to avoid an encounter or flee from a fight that goes bad.

You write good posts and have many valid points but I dont think you even read the post you quoted from me

I said that minstrels power arent the problem, its the utility that they give to the infils that in 99% of the cases follow them around like puppydogs. A solo mincer I can usually kill even with the crapgear I have atm, but its just that to find a solo mincer is highly unlikely. The ones you may find solo are high RR ones that can actually play their class and those I cant touch (that has nothing to do with classoverpowerdness but that they are played right).


Understand that this thread was not about minstrels being 1v1 gods, solo walking certain death or anything like that.
The thread was about the stupidity of giving one out of three realms a stealthclass with CC and 100 little toys they can offer to the two other stealthclasses in their realms when grouping with them, its not like an infil would need it, they are a solid class in themselves.
So pleease dont speak more about that a this and that would own a minstrel 1v1 and so on, that is not the point, the point is that mincer alone is 1 man, a mincer and infil is almost impossible for any other stealthduo/trio to beat (if the albs know how to play ).

 

[Dumle]

He means ( i think ) that if u fiddle around with minstrel skills i.e giving them parry taking away stealth, then they r no longer stealthers = they will be light tanks/hybrids, wich is another dmg table... and what is the diffrence between a skald and a minstrel when both got parry n r "hybrids".

Ahaa ok, thanks

Had no clue what he meant with that post, sounded like drunk ramblings to me


Sorry Sobek, you have a good point there but as I said in previous reply I thought it went without saying that if they loose their stealth they should have hybrid damagetable and hps, thats why I didnt mention it

 

[Sobek]

Why would removing stealth from minstrels make skald less of a hybrid and bard less of a support? Sure it would make minstrel less of a stealther, thats the whole point.
Try and make some sense please, I know english isnt your first language, same goes for me and I sometimes I dont make myself understood because of it, but that sentance from you sounded like you were wasted or something.
Btw do you live in Kristiania?

No i dont live in Christania.

Another thing i thought it went without saying that each of the speed classes was granted to each sub-class line, besides the Mage line, and changing one of them would create unbalance to the others.

Well, i'll try to be more specific with my posts later on.

and i was replying to this thread, at 5am, figures why i couldnt explain my self properly

 

[Umilard]

Yes, minstrel is overpowed, have been since we got our level 50 dd, even maybe since we got ablative. And toa hasn't made it better, a minstrel with artifactkit and ml8 sojourner is quite the killermachine..

But then, _ALL_ assassins are killingmachines aswell since TOA, legendary weapons that proc like crazy on dual wielders that also have str/con debuff and a CSline is kinda silly aswell.

Oh, and archers in shadeform?

So, yes, minstrels are overpowered in stealthzergs, but tbh, how many good minstrels do you see running in stealthzergs? The good ones i've seen mostly solo or run in fgs..

 

[Kreig]

Yes, minstrel is overpowed, have been since we got our level 50 dd, even maybe since we got ablative. And toa hasn't made it better, a minstrel with artifactkit and ml8 sojourner is quite the killermachine..

I think u need to add HIGH RR in there, low rr mincers are just plain average, and tbh any high RR class is a "Killing Machine", everyone seems to forget that and just blames the class.

The whole point of the three realms and class selection is that no class is the same (generally). Bards are one of the best bot/support chars there is as they have a huge utility value, Skalds have the potential to deal high dmg, and mincer fits somewhere inbetween imo.

If all classes were the same and each realm had its opposite, it would be boring and there would be no point in the realms. Yes having different realm/class selection can unbalance things in certain areas.
But i'd sooner have an interesting game than a mundain one which u put down after a month of playing...

 

[wittor]

nerf carp !!!!!!!!!!1 to overpowered