Minstrel TL
- Thread starter Fsantos
- Start date
scorge
Fledgling Freddie
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2004
- Messages
- 2,721
Magic Issues
1. Instruments
* Alluring Melodies
Issue Description:
Charmed pets are unable to keep up with boats in Frontiers, and are ignored when using portals in the Frontier and in ToA.
Mythic Response:
Boats and portals are different code issues. Portals are a bug, and boats are under ongoing investigation but as of yet have no fix available.
2. Instruments
* Commanding Cadence
Issue Description:
This song is played on the flute and has a static cast time of 3 seconds, unmodifiable by Dexterity or ToA Spell Casting bonus.
In the modern fast-paced RvR field, this is a VERY long time. In comparison, the Mentalist single target mezz has a cast time of 3 seconds but since it is a spell, it can be speeded up with dex and ToA Bonus. The Skald has an instant shout that has the same duration as our flute mezz.
Can we have the flute mezz cast time modifiable by dex and ToA bonuses?
Mythic Response:
All of those differences (including stealth ability and the ability to move while casting) have been taken into account when designing whether to allow your mezzes and other spells to be modified by ToA bonuses.
3. Instruments
* Dischordant Howl
Issue Description:
Also the Deafening Cacophony line.
Both these DD lines have a range of 700. In RvR today, a lot of combat takes place around towers and keeps. 700 range is frequently not enough to be able to use it while defending a keep or tower from the ramparts. An increase to 850 at least would make a tremedous difference. I am sure the same is true for Skalds.
Mythic Response:
Your DD spells are a melee tool and are not meant for long range combat. We hope that tower razing and other recent changes will address the larger issue, which is really melee in NF more than the ability for Minstrels to cast ranged spells.
4. Instruments
* Enrapturing Lullaby
Issue Description:
This spell is the AE mezz spell. Its cast time is 5 seconds, which in modern RvR is much too long. When Lurikeen casters are able to cast spells in the region of 1 second, spending 4-5 seconds casting an AE spell with only 250 AE radius instead of the usual 350 radius, means it is very difficult to complete the casting of this spell.
Mythic Response:
AE Mezz is actually a pretty powerful spell for someone who can stealth. We don't have any plans to change it at this time.
5. Instruments
* Enrapturing Lullaby
Issue Description:
Mezz on mobs underwater does not prevent them moving along the Z-axis.
Mythic Response:
Thank you for reporting this bug.
Realm Ability Issues
1. Mastery of Stealth
Issue Description:
Minstrels using stealth are feeling even more vulnerable now, since Vampiirs are able to buff their own stealth detection ability. Granting access to even a limited level of Mastery of Stealth, even just level 1 would help a great deal.
Mythic Response:
There are no plans to allow Minstrels access to the Mastery of Stealth line.
Master Level Issues
1. Sojourner
* Forceful Zephyr & Reveal Crystalseed
Issue Description:
Forceful Zephyr: The new recast timer of 15 minutes is too long. This is longer than many RA timers and much longer than a lot of other ML ability timers. 10 minutes would be much more appropriate. Reveal Crystalseed: The restricted AE of this ability (500 radius) means you need to know where a mine is likely to be located before using it. Coupled with having to set Ground targets, it makes the ability very difficult to use. Much better would be changing it into a self buff that allowed you to see mines in your field of view for a duration.
Mythic Response:
Forceful Zephyr: We changed the timer to 15 minutes because by design it was a more appropriate timer. At this time we have no plans to change it back. Your Reveal Crystalseed request has been added to the discussion list.
2. Warlord
* The whole ML line
Issue Description:
In general this ML line is sub-par. The early abilities are useful: Seige Master, Bolstering Battlecry and Cowering Bellow (which does overlap in function with the Minstrel RR 5 Calming Notes RA) Resilient Will, Guided Strike, Cleansing Aura share the same timer and their duration is too short with 30s being the longest. Energizing Aura: now that all melee classes have a very good base endurance regen has been rendered less useful than when designed. Defending Martyr places too much of a penalty on the caster to make it worth using. Sadly the noble concept of "sacrificing oneself for the good of the realm" doesn't work in the game as it currently stands. Leadership does not appear to have any discenible effect. Its duration is too short (30s) and its recast timer too long (5min). Warguard overwrites the absorb buffs of casters and friars so is a very unpopular ability with those classes.
Mythic Response:
Thank you for your feedback, your suggestions are always welcome.
Class Ability Issues
1. Climbing
Issue Description:
Can we have more climb points on keeps?
Could we get climb points on Towers? More combat takes place around towers than keeps so this would allow wall climbers to have a better role in tower attacks.
Mythic Response:
We agree that more climb points would be nice, and we would like to put them in eventually, but more pressing changes take precedent over this one. Please request in your next report.
2. Safefall
Issue Description:
With the increased height of Keep walls in Frontiers, the lower levels of Safe Fall (usually Minstrels will have Safe Fall 3 at most) need to protect from higher elevations.
Mythic Response:
This is slated for change in an upcoming patch barring any unforeseen circumstances.
Item Issues
1. Ethereal Phoebus Harp (summoned instrument from Phoebus Harp Necklace)
Issue Description:
The stats of this instrument are not good for Minstrels, but seem designed for Bards in Hibernia.
2% body
2% matter
2% spirit
8% spell duration
5% casting speed
10 dex cap bonus
Spell Duration affects charm pulse, Stun and Mezz duration so is a fair bonus.
Casting Speed will only affect 2 spells from the Minstrel's repertoir. The others are either continuous songs, or in the case of Flute Mezz (Alluring Melodies line), it has a static cast time of 3 seconds unmodified by dex or ToA bonus.
Dex cap is of very little use to most Minstrels for the same reason. Dex will afffect the casting speed of only 2 spells. It has some effect on the chance to evade, but no other use while the instrument is being used (ie non-combat). As a result very few Minstrels consider this stat worth taking high enough to cap, so this bonus is redundant.
Mythic Response:
We understand your concern, but the item was designed to have the widest appeal to all singing classes. At this time we have decided not to make any changes to existing artifacts . We will consider your argument when adding similar items in the future.
2. Artifacts breaking speed
Issue Description:
The following artifacts put you into combat mode when you use their abilities, thus breaking speed:
Cloudsong (use2 Arcane Leadership)
Ceremonial Bracers (both uses)
Crown of Zahur (use2 Arcane Leadership)
Gem of Lost Memories (use2 Banish Fear CC reduction buff)
Mythic Response:
Generally speaking, artifacts that can be used offensively are supposed to break speed. Thanks to this report, Ceremonial Bracers (both uses) & Gem of Lost Memories (use2 Banish Fear CC reduction buff) causing speed to drop were fixed in 1.76. Also, artifact effects that are considered chants will overwrite existing chants by design.
3. Crocodile Tears Ring
Issue Description:
Can we have some command or option that switches off the level 10 ability for the times when we don't WANT to provide AE speed (for example) but don't want to have to take the ring off.
Mythic Response:
It's an interesting idea, but not at this time.
Other Issues
Issue Description:
Instrument/Weapon swapping:
By their very nature, Minstrels tend to swap from drum to weapons to flute to weapon to drum etc during the course of a fight. If the weapon/shield/drum has +con +hp then when you unequip, you loose the benefit of those bonuses EVEN if the wpn/drum/flute you are swapping to has the same bonuses. Same with +Charisma/Acuity and power. This means artifacts such as Malice, which has +con +hp and +caps to both, don't allow the minstrel to gain the full benefit of the bonuses.
Typically a Minstrel will start a fight with drum equipped and then swap to weapon, so even if the drum had the same +con and +hp as the weapon, it would require time while in combat to regenerate the lost hps before they got full benefit. Might it be possible then, to delay the recalculations of the stat for a second or so to allow the bonuses to settle down, OR actually grant the full benefits immediately on equipping the item?
Mythic Response:
Messing with the timing in which stats show up after switching items would effect all classes, not just Minstrels. While we understand your frustration, this is just one of those things that is part of the game mechanics and cannot be changed without causing a horde of other problems.
Issue Description:
Master Level : Convoker : Speed Warp
While the changes in 1.74 are very welcome, the Area of Effect is still too large - its range appears to be the clip plane so as soon as you see it, you are affected by it - there is no way to avoid it.
Mythic Response:
Recently, we reduced the radius and duration of this ability. We don't plan to make futher changes at this time.
New Frontiers Issues
Issue Description:
Realm Hastners:
Please make it only cast speed on the person who activated the hastener, instead of AE to avoid overwriting speed provided by the Minstrel to his/her whole group.
Mythic Response:
If we were to make it so that the hastener's spell only affected the player who activated it, it would not transfer to that player's pet.
1. Instruments
* Alluring Melodies
Issue Description:
Charmed pets are unable to keep up with boats in Frontiers, and are ignored when using portals in the Frontier and in ToA.
Mythic Response:
Boats and portals are different code issues. Portals are a bug, and boats are under ongoing investigation but as of yet have no fix available.
2. Instruments
* Commanding Cadence
Issue Description:
This song is played on the flute and has a static cast time of 3 seconds, unmodifiable by Dexterity or ToA Spell Casting bonus.
In the modern fast-paced RvR field, this is a VERY long time. In comparison, the Mentalist single target mezz has a cast time of 3 seconds but since it is a spell, it can be speeded up with dex and ToA Bonus. The Skald has an instant shout that has the same duration as our flute mezz.
Can we have the flute mezz cast time modifiable by dex and ToA bonuses?
Mythic Response:
All of those differences (including stealth ability and the ability to move while casting) have been taken into account when designing whether to allow your mezzes and other spells to be modified by ToA bonuses.
3. Instruments
* Dischordant Howl
Issue Description:
Also the Deafening Cacophony line.
Both these DD lines have a range of 700. In RvR today, a lot of combat takes place around towers and keeps. 700 range is frequently not enough to be able to use it while defending a keep or tower from the ramparts. An increase to 850 at least would make a tremedous difference. I am sure the same is true for Skalds.
Mythic Response:
Your DD spells are a melee tool and are not meant for long range combat. We hope that tower razing and other recent changes will address the larger issue, which is really melee in NF more than the ability for Minstrels to cast ranged spells.
4. Instruments
* Enrapturing Lullaby
Issue Description:
This spell is the AE mezz spell. Its cast time is 5 seconds, which in modern RvR is much too long. When Lurikeen casters are able to cast spells in the region of 1 second, spending 4-5 seconds casting an AE spell with only 250 AE radius instead of the usual 350 radius, means it is very difficult to complete the casting of this spell.
Mythic Response:
AE Mezz is actually a pretty powerful spell for someone who can stealth. We don't have any plans to change it at this time.
5. Instruments
* Enrapturing Lullaby
Issue Description:
Mezz on mobs underwater does not prevent them moving along the Z-axis.
Mythic Response:
Thank you for reporting this bug.
Realm Ability Issues
1. Mastery of Stealth
Issue Description:
Minstrels using stealth are feeling even more vulnerable now, since Vampiirs are able to buff their own stealth detection ability. Granting access to even a limited level of Mastery of Stealth, even just level 1 would help a great deal.
Mythic Response:
There are no plans to allow Minstrels access to the Mastery of Stealth line.
Master Level Issues
1. Sojourner
* Forceful Zephyr & Reveal Crystalseed
Issue Description:
Forceful Zephyr: The new recast timer of 15 minutes is too long. This is longer than many RA timers and much longer than a lot of other ML ability timers. 10 minutes would be much more appropriate. Reveal Crystalseed: The restricted AE of this ability (500 radius) means you need to know where a mine is likely to be located before using it. Coupled with having to set Ground targets, it makes the ability very difficult to use. Much better would be changing it into a self buff that allowed you to see mines in your field of view for a duration.
Mythic Response:
Forceful Zephyr: We changed the timer to 15 minutes because by design it was a more appropriate timer. At this time we have no plans to change it back. Your Reveal Crystalseed request has been added to the discussion list.
2. Warlord
* The whole ML line
Issue Description:
In general this ML line is sub-par. The early abilities are useful: Seige Master, Bolstering Battlecry and Cowering Bellow (which does overlap in function with the Minstrel RR 5 Calming Notes RA) Resilient Will, Guided Strike, Cleansing Aura share the same timer and their duration is too short with 30s being the longest. Energizing Aura: now that all melee classes have a very good base endurance regen has been rendered less useful than when designed. Defending Martyr places too much of a penalty on the caster to make it worth using. Sadly the noble concept of "sacrificing oneself for the good of the realm" doesn't work in the game as it currently stands. Leadership does not appear to have any discenible effect. Its duration is too short (30s) and its recast timer too long (5min). Warguard overwrites the absorb buffs of casters and friars so is a very unpopular ability with those classes.
Mythic Response:
Thank you for your feedback, your suggestions are always welcome.
Class Ability Issues
1. Climbing
Issue Description:
Can we have more climb points on keeps?
Could we get climb points on Towers? More combat takes place around towers than keeps so this would allow wall climbers to have a better role in tower attacks.
Mythic Response:
We agree that more climb points would be nice, and we would like to put them in eventually, but more pressing changes take precedent over this one. Please request in your next report.
2. Safefall
Issue Description:
With the increased height of Keep walls in Frontiers, the lower levels of Safe Fall (usually Minstrels will have Safe Fall 3 at most) need to protect from higher elevations.
Mythic Response:
This is slated for change in an upcoming patch barring any unforeseen circumstances.
Item Issues
1. Ethereal Phoebus Harp (summoned instrument from Phoebus Harp Necklace)
Issue Description:
The stats of this instrument are not good for Minstrels, but seem designed for Bards in Hibernia.
2% body
2% matter
2% spirit
8% spell duration
5% casting speed
10 dex cap bonus
Spell Duration affects charm pulse, Stun and Mezz duration so is a fair bonus.
Casting Speed will only affect 2 spells from the Minstrel's repertoir. The others are either continuous songs, or in the case of Flute Mezz (Alluring Melodies line), it has a static cast time of 3 seconds unmodified by dex or ToA bonus.
Dex cap is of very little use to most Minstrels for the same reason. Dex will afffect the casting speed of only 2 spells. It has some effect on the chance to evade, but no other use while the instrument is being used (ie non-combat). As a result very few Minstrels consider this stat worth taking high enough to cap, so this bonus is redundant.
Mythic Response:
We understand your concern, but the item was designed to have the widest appeal to all singing classes. At this time we have decided not to make any changes to existing artifacts . We will consider your argument when adding similar items in the future.
2. Artifacts breaking speed
Issue Description:
The following artifacts put you into combat mode when you use their abilities, thus breaking speed:
Cloudsong (use2 Arcane Leadership)
Ceremonial Bracers (both uses)
Crown of Zahur (use2 Arcane Leadership)
Gem of Lost Memories (use2 Banish Fear CC reduction buff)
Mythic Response:
Generally speaking, artifacts that can be used offensively are supposed to break speed. Thanks to this report, Ceremonial Bracers (both uses) & Gem of Lost Memories (use2 Banish Fear CC reduction buff) causing speed to drop were fixed in 1.76. Also, artifact effects that are considered chants will overwrite existing chants by design.
3. Crocodile Tears Ring
Issue Description:
Can we have some command or option that switches off the level 10 ability for the times when we don't WANT to provide AE speed (for example) but don't want to have to take the ring off.
Mythic Response:
It's an interesting idea, but not at this time.
Other Issues
Issue Description:
Instrument/Weapon swapping:
By their very nature, Minstrels tend to swap from drum to weapons to flute to weapon to drum etc during the course of a fight. If the weapon/shield/drum has +con +hp then when you unequip, you loose the benefit of those bonuses EVEN if the wpn/drum/flute you are swapping to has the same bonuses. Same with +Charisma/Acuity and power. This means artifacts such as Malice, which has +con +hp and +caps to both, don't allow the minstrel to gain the full benefit of the bonuses.
Typically a Minstrel will start a fight with drum equipped and then swap to weapon, so even if the drum had the same +con and +hp as the weapon, it would require time while in combat to regenerate the lost hps before they got full benefit. Might it be possible then, to delay the recalculations of the stat for a second or so to allow the bonuses to settle down, OR actually grant the full benefits immediately on equipping the item?
Mythic Response:
Messing with the timing in which stats show up after switching items would effect all classes, not just Minstrels. While we understand your frustration, this is just one of those things that is part of the game mechanics and cannot be changed without causing a horde of other problems.
Issue Description:
Master Level : Convoker : Speed Warp
While the changes in 1.74 are very welcome, the Area of Effect is still too large - its range appears to be the clip plane so as soon as you see it, you are affected by it - there is no way to avoid it.
Mythic Response:
Recently, we reduced the radius and duration of this ability. We don't plan to make futher changes at this time.
New Frontiers Issues
Issue Description:
Realm Hastners:
Please make it only cast speed on the person who activated the hastener, instead of AE to avoid overwriting speed provided by the Minstrel to his/her whole group.
Mythic Response:
If we were to make it so that the hastener's spell only affected the player who activated it, it would not transfer to that player's pet.
Nate
FH is my second home
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
- Messages
- 7,454
aye tbh, the minstrel class is a few levels higher then what the skald is atm. if u guys think minstrels suck, take a look at the "singing" class of midgard's spells. u got aoe mez, insta stun, stealth, charm, ablatives, pow regen, cure mez..if ur not winning fights, ur playing the wrong class.
TL reports are kinda funny, in the overall i never see class balance suggestions, but lots of "hey it would be pretty nice if we had <blank>" stuff...
This report made me laugh especially coz first he whines that casts affected by dex would be unfairly fast as they are reduced to around 1 sec castime compared to their 3 sec flutemezz while forgetting the from stealth and while moving bonuses he has finnishing his terrific joke in his next point claiming the (from stealth) ae mezz would take nearly the full 5 sec of its castime
Splendid... and next week the bonedancer TL will complain about the lack of survivability in his supression line
This report made me laugh especially coz first he whines that casts affected by dex would be unfairly fast as they are reduced to around 1 sec castime compared to their 3 sec flutemezz while forgetting the from stealth and while moving bonuses he has finnishing his terrific joke in his next point claiming the (from stealth) ae mezz would take nearly the full 5 sec of its castime
Splendid... and next week the bonedancer TL will complain about the lack of survivability in his supression line
- Thread starter
- #13
YEs yes, we are the Jack of all trades, but the master of none, and yes we are a strong class in duo or trio, weak at solo compared to all st classes and weak in 8 man grp, lack of damage for asssist, weak in interrupt, only 4 toys to do it and this have timers and only 1 target only ... our aoe mezz its the best toy we have to interrput but it takes to long to cast ... so we are taking 1 spot in alb grp for only speed 5 and sos ? lol get anoter sorcerer bether interrut class imo !! albs are doomed to run 8man grp without dps ...
Long live the mid and Hib grps ...
Long live the mid and Hib grps ...
minstrel class is one of the few classes that doesnt really need a nerf or a boost.
and to the ppl who cant solo as a minstrel... shoul really roll somthing different... DDs, stun (insta), can mezz while running, can do ok in melee. ablative. stealth....
best solo stealther out there imo. add zephyr if u specced soj and ml9... load of util.... IP, sos... yadaydaydayda
i could go on
roxx class
and to the ppl who cant solo as a minstrel... shoul really roll somthing different... DDs, stun (insta), can mezz while running, can do ok in melee. ablative. stealth....
best solo stealther out there imo. add zephyr if u specced soj and ml9... load of util.... IP, sos... yadaydaydayda
i could go on
roxx class
- Thread starter
- #15
Minstrel to win must cast ml10 warlord +batler, malice buff or ZW, sb, ns, rangers or hunter just seen to spam stilles and win the fight ... i can see someting not working right ... We must use toys to win ... and yes i can solo nice, sometimes can even kill high rr ones with ip+purge+warguard+batler up ... Minstrel are not so great at solo ... shines at duo+trio, suck at 8 man run
Corran
Part of the furniture
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2003
- Messages
- 6,180
in general the first TL reports of the year have not been released to the normal people.. think VN boards only has about 5 of them, and there not many "draft versions" laying about on other boards atm...Urgluf said:
and Mythic have not given any feedback hence TL's not putting them up yet
TL reports from this year seem to be on their way out to the public now. Champ TL posted that it wouldn't be long, and that it looked pretty succesful this time - hard to know what to count as succesful though, as we've what other stuff have happened earlier.
DocWolfe
Part of the furniture
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 2,855
Here is a listing of the TL reports: http://www.camelotherald.com/teamleads/tl_reports.php
And the Reaver Report above isn't the latest.
And the Reaver Report above isn't the latest.
Tesla Monkor
Fledgling Freddie
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2004
- Messages
- 1,452
Reavers aren't getting anything in the next patches, though. They're considered 'balanced' as they are.
The class was used as an example in a recent grab-bag.
The class was used as an example in a recent grab-bag.