Mercs damage.

[eggy]

Then go and hit Draco and see see yourself hit for less. Hence people don't talk about lower cap as its confusing matters with lower cap being fully affected by the given opponent where as upper cap ain't.

Because it's calculated before level/abs/af. Without AF buffs/abs/bof/sob etc it's easier to recognise a lower cap.

You're right though, it's confusing and doesn't mean much in the scheme of things.

 

[Puppet]

Hit a buffbot for 500 swings. You'll notice you never hit below a certain amount...as there is a 0% chance of hitting for 1 damage...ie a lower cap exists.

Amount of baseline skill (up to 51 effective levels) will then take a value between your lower cap and upper cap at 'random'.

If you take a sample of 500 swings there will always be 1 number the lowest number. I dont see how that proves it to be the 'lower cap' tho.

 

[Melachi]

I'd love to know how the merc (which is lower RR than Infinatys, which isn't RR11) could have 50+20. Just by Infinaty's RR, he'd have at least 50+6.

Since we are obviously being pedantic now, that youve taken your agruement to the fact that I said +20, lets actually delve deeper into my quote:

Is it possible that the Thrust merc has more effective DW skill? like 50+20, while the slash merc only has 50+6 or something..

Can we get that little very significant part visually enhanced for our friends here:
like 50+20, while the slash merc only has 50+6 or something..

Like meaning, as an example. Im sure youve seen the word used in that way before.

And just for the record, the thrust merc could be rr5, and have +15 to DW, but the Slash merc could have only +6 to DW.

Yes there is. Have you noticed how damage is never lower than a certain value (before AF/Abs calculations)? Lower cap, dependant on baseline damage skill.

I wasnt actually aware of any Global damage floor oO. I never tought that it may be a figure before AF/Abs calcs. So fair point I didnt know that

 

[Dracus]

From a 1.81 grab bag on herald:

Q: A long time ago...in a grab bag far, far, away...(yeah, corny, but so are your grab bag titles). :-P

You posted about how damage variances worked:
1 spec: 25 - 100%
1/3 of level: 50 - 100%
2/3 of level: 75 - 100%
spec = level: 100 - 150%

Do those still apply after four years (!) and if so, what is the percentage a percentage OF?

A: Corny?! I'm hurt! Except not really.

I asked the Code Warrior, and we discovered that damage variance as pertaining to spec level has managed to stay the same over the years. As for what the number is a percentage of… well, jeez, you just had to ask me a hard one. It's the NUMBER, of course.

Okay, the number that represents the damage range (the raw number of points you have the potential to inflict every time you take offensive action) is made up of a lot of things. I can't tell you exactly, because it’s not a nice simple formula, but rather something like a jellyfish with tentacles all over the place. It would take hours to track down all the possible minor influences, but the major influences are:

Your level
Target's level
Delve value of spell and/or damage of weapon
Any bonuses due to applicable attribute (strength, acuity, dex, etc)
Armor of target

Remember, that list is NOT complete, but the things I did not include probably don't make more than a few points of difference.

/Dracus

 

[eggy]

youve taken your agruement to the fact that I said +20

No, I just don't think he's a big enough newb to not cap +slash, considering it influences and defines your maximum damage.

 

[Puppet]

No, I just don't think he's a big enough newb to not cap +slash, considering it influences and defines your maximum damage.

It seems you dont understand Wyrd-spec at all. If you're 50 slash spec, its not a big-issue for a group-merc to not get +slash, considering all it will do is.... nothing except help Dualshadows...

 

[eggy]

It seems you dont understand Wyrd-spec at all. If you're 50 slash spec, its not a big-issue for a group-merc to not get +slash, considering all it will do is.... nothing except help Dualshadows...

Of course I understand it. I would just assume other styles would be utilised in the slash line (seing as DW damage variance is at its minimum with 51 effective slash levels). Amy slash for example. Most of the time you're chasing targets, not hitting them from the front.

I had forgotten how boring slash mercs are - being a thrust merc, pierce is my friend

 

[Elitestoner]

I assume you mean he had battler equipped in offhand.

was just saying that he had battler in the main hand.

 

[Haggus]

It's cos he's HO.... he sucks... END of convo.

 

[Nerve]

Of course I understand it. I would just assume other styles would be utilised in the slash line (seing as DW damage variance is at its minimum with 51 effective slash levels). Amy slash for example. Most of the time you're chasing targets, not hitting them from the front.

Us 'boring slash mercs' have backslash for that

 

[wittor]

That's not true at all. A Mercfil can spec 50 DW, 50 Slash and still have enough for 35 Stealth. With that spec your damage would be insane. Obviously you'd have no Poison or CS, but that's the whole point of the spec.

Erm what are you talking about. Why wouldent he have no poison or CS if goes DW?

For example .. I have 50Thrust 50DW 50Stealth 50Env 21 CS on my Infil

 

[Bahumat]

guys this is what the argument has boiled down to.

"no, i think its bluey green"

"no, dumbass its greeny blue"

your just picking flaws in each others statements and then changing what was said to suit you.

TO THE GUY WHO ASKED THE QUESTION.

If you could provide us with the spec with the + to skills from RR+template, what class you were hitting, etc and then maybe those number crunchers can work out whats going on.

i had a guess your m8 is a big fat half ogre with low quickness and your an inconnu with t3h r0x0r quickness thus per hit you do less.

 

[Nerve]

your just picking flaws in each others statements and then changing what was said to suit you.

thats basically cause noone cba to even start to understand what this is about anymore

 

[Tilda]

guys this is what the argument has boiled down to.

"no, i think its bluey green"

"no, dumbass its greeny blue"

your just picking flaws in each others statements and then changing what was said to suit you.

TO THE GUY WHO ASKED THE QUESTION.

If you could provide us with the spec with the + to skills from RR+template, what class you were hitting, etc and then maybe those number crunchers can work out whats going on.

i had a guess your m8 is a big fat half ogre with low quickness and your an inconnu with t3h r0x0r quickness thus per hit you do less.

add to that list, the str, dex, qui and empathy of each charachter.

 

[Pera]

It seems you dont understand Wyrd-spec at all. If you're 50 slash spec, its not a big-issue for a group-merc to not get +slash, considering all it will do is.... nothing except help Dualshadows...

This is wrong. IF you are using Ammy slash/Diamond slash the more +slash you have the more Style dmg you will have. Wyrd only proved that weapon spec beyond 51 has no effect on DW/CD/LA STYLE dmg. However, if you use styles from the weapon spec, your style dmg WILL go up.

Now the question is, since DS takes into account your main weapon spec line, could it be that +slash also effects DS style dmg? Because the rest of the styles in DW/CD/LA does not take into account your main weapon spec past 51.

Although weapon spec beyond 51 will not increase your style dmg from DW/CD/LA, if your weapon spec is< 49 your style dmg from CD/DW/LA will go down.

 

[occy]

Funny replies on this thread

 

[Pera]

That's not true at all. A Mercfil can spec 50 DW, 50 Slash and still have enough for 35 Stealth. With that spec your damage would be insane. Obviously you'd have no Poison or CS, but that's the whole point of the spec.

This is not true. an Infiltrator that is specced "Mercilfil" will only be gimping himself and not using two of the highest growth rate style that are avaliable to them. For example a RR5 infiltrator that is specced 50+15 slash and 50+15 Dw will only swing his offhand 64% of the time. Also note that infiltrators are on a totally different dmg table than mercs thats why given the same str (say 370 - I know a merc will obviously have more), RR, and spec, an infiltrator can never hit as hard as a merc.

Again speccing as a mercilfil you will lose a 9 sec stun (CD), perf, Garrote (.75 GR) and AH (1.05 GR), an anytime snare style (Garrote), and much more. The spec just simply have too many downs... also the same inf specced 50+15 slash and 36+15 DW will still have same dmg varience on Off-hand hits and have 55% chance to swing.

 

[Bahumat]

This is not true. an Infiltrator that is specced "Mercilfil" will only be gimping himself and not using two of the highest growth rate style that are avaliable to them. For example a RR5 infiltrator that is specced 50+15 slash and 50+15 Dw will only swing his offhand 64% of the time. Also note that infiltrators are on a totally different dmg table than mercs thats why given the same str (say 370 - I know a merc will obviously have more), RR, and spec, an infiltrator can never hit as hard as a merc.

Again speccing as a mercilfil you will lose a 9 sec stun (CD), perf, Garrote (.75 GR) and AH (1.05 GR), an anytime snare style (Garrote), and much more. The spec just simply have too many downs... also the same inf specced 50+15 slash and 36+15 DW will still have same dmg varience on Off-hand hits and have 55% chance to swing.

infs dont get 9 second stuns, cd is about 6 seconds and dragonfang (evade stun)is about 5-6 (used to be 9 aaagggggesss back)

also merci infs have the issue where 50 DW gives a gimp style (namely Dual Shadows) when used with a spec where the base wpn is NOT 50.

thus 50dw 50 thrust is fine

50dw 36+14 thrust means the style does poo dmg

 

[Danamyr]

Stuff...

Bahumat has already replied to your post, so all I'll add is that I stand by my previous comment. A 50 DW, 50 Slash, 35 Stealth, Malice & Battler Infiltrator will hurt.

I never said there weren't better specs, but to suggest that this spec is gimped is just silly

 

[Kinag]

i love it when someone fails to listen to what others say, then they make up some BS post when proven wrong about being stoned or pissed to not look like a fool.

If you're hinting to me, I just said I find it highly unlikely, but of course, I'm not a know-it-all kind of guy, I just think it's weird.

 

[Achilles]

In shear DPS, a slash merc has a higher DPS then a thrust merc if everything else is equal, quickness, weapon-speed(s), bonusses to skills IF your strength > your dexterity. The problem arises when a slash merc goes 4.1/4.1 weapon-setup, because he will loose DPS due to lowering his swing-speed.

I dont understand this, surely if you are lowering your swing speed ie 3.5 to 2.5, if all other factors remain the same, you are increasing your dps? I dont want to have a debate about it, just interested because i've heard undertones aswell that malice/battler combo decreases your dmg? But i dont really understand how it can?
I dont think even mythic have a clue how it works, but you can bet that whatever its doing its working as intended.

 

[Bahumat]

If you're hinting to me, I just said I find it highly unlikely, but of course, I'm not a know-it-all kind of guy, I just think it's weird.

i meant infinity

 

[Infanity]

That's not true at all. A Mercfil can spec 50 DW, 50 Slash and still have enough for 35 Stealth. With that spec your damage would be insane. Obviously you'd have no Poison or CS, but that's the whole point of the spec.

What i said was its hard for a mercfill to have an alrite spec.

As with modified 51 weapon.. you wont hit as much as you could with 50+RR etc.

Anyway, Cant see why this has gone into a big flame war between loadsa people.. I rightnowd this to goa, Will see what they get back to me with and if anyones interestd i'll post it.

Thanks for the posts etc, and the logic.

 

[Infanity]

i love it when someone fails to listen to what others say, then they make up some BS post when proven wrong about being stoned or pissed to not look like a fool.

i meant infinity

Your saying that to me?

Actually, Ive said it about 10 tmes today i really enjoy playing the thrust merc, and i would defo say id choose it over mine to play atm.

If your going to reply like a moron, and attempt to insult me on something you know sweet fuck all about. try. http://forums.flamershouse.fuck.off.please

If i hadnt done alot of testing last night in goth with sama, me merc etc. i wouldnt of posted this and asked if anyone had any idea why its happening.

 

[Pera]

What i said was its hard for a mercfill to have an alrite spec.

As with modified 51 weapon.. you wont hit as much as you could with 50+RR etc.

Anyway, Cant see why this has gone into a big flame war between loadsa people.. I rightnowd this to goa, Will see what they get back to me with and if anyones interestd i'll post it.

Thanks for the posts etc, and the logic.

I hope your are not talking the bout the 2 mercs that are in your signarure. One is in Lance/US and one isn Pry/Eu?

 

[Elitestoner]

I hope your are not talking the bout the 2 mercs that are in your signarure. One is in Lance/US and one isn Pry/Eu?

why would that matter? :\

 

[Infanity]

I hope your are not talking the bout the 2 mercs that are in your signarure. One is in Lance/US and one isn Pry/Eu?

Lol, Re-read my first post.. and then try again <o/