MCSE Courses

[PLightstar]

Hiya,

Just wondering if any one can recommend a decent course etc, I have been in contact with Advent has anyone had any dealings with them at all, they say they have a recruitment department to help me get a job as I progress through the course which seems a good idea.

I was wondering if there are any other companies worth going through or to go straight to Microsoft and take there course?

 

[Caylan Raal]

I was looking at simular things - advent although offer a job, do appear quite expensive.
Have a look at Computeach, they seemed a little cheaper. Was another company called National IT Learning Centre (i think that was what it was called)

 

[Kryten]

Do you really need a course to do it?
They cost a hell of a lot of money, and if you're motivated enough, there's plenty of learning material available. The books are going for just a couple of quid on eBay, and the internet itself is full of other useful resource.
On top of that, you can get just about all the practice exams from MS themselves.

 

[Darthshearer]

I know a couple of IT bods who chuck CV's away that have MCSE certified on.

 

[kirennia]

I know a couple of IT bods who chuck CV's away that have MCSE certified on.

Really? I was under the impression they were a good thing to have as a sort of extra bonus. I understand there are a lot of people who hate microsoft but it's still nice to know an employee is sufficiently good with it. Was aiming to get MCSE during/after my masters course...what's peoples general feeling of the worth of them then? Useless?

 

[Darthshearer]

Really? I was under the impression they were a good thing to have as a sort of extra bonus. I understand there are a lot of people who hate microsoft but it's still nice to know an employee is sufficiently good with it. Was aiming to get MCSE during/after my masters course...what's peoples general feeling of the worth of them then? Useless?

I thought the same, but one said they are crap. Would prefer someone to have a CISCO Cert or some other

 

[kirennia]

I thought the same, but one said they are crap. Would prefer someone to have a CISCO Cert or some other

Aye, was aiming to get both. Although I'm not a fan of microsoft and such, it still surprises me when people actually look upon you worse for knowing about it or being involved with them...(in IT ofc)

 

[Darthshearer]

I asked the lad why about 10mins ago.

He said the managers love it but the main techs dont. The main reason for this in the past is that peeps have said "I am MCSE and I know a lot about PC's" when it comes to the crunch they are nothing more than a PC geek who knows very little about anything other than Word and Excel.

 

[Kryten]

That's the crux of it really, it depends on who's responsible for hiring/firing.
I was hired purely on the strength of the skills and experience outlined on my CV.

The interview was as follows, on a Friday.

"Can you do what you stated on your CV; i.e. is it true and not exaggurated?"
"Yes"
"Start monday, I'll show you around."

He too had chucked out several degree holders and MCSE certified people, as he knows he'd rather see what someone can do rather than trust the sayso of a peice of paper that shows someone can *theoretically* do it.

It's completely luck of the draw though. Had I been MCSE certified, I'm fairly sure I'd have landed a job in the public sector beforehand. But fate has landed on my side and I've my dream job.
I will recommend doing it though, if you can afford it. One of the guys from my work has just done a week's "crash course" MCSE and I believe he'd have passed. He was only a warehouseman but had an interest in computers, which is just as important as being able to do something.

 

[bigfunkymonkey]

Things like test king, actual tests etc have really destroyed the value of the MCSE cert, but miscrosoft are working on it making the exam more lab based rather than simply answering multiple choice questions.

Check out this:
10 tech certifications that actually mean something | 10 Things | TechRepublic.com

Just out of interest Kryten, what is this job which is your dream job? I'm seriously thinking of looking around for something, just need a little inspiration....

 

[kirennia]

I asked the lad why about 10mins ago.

He said the managers love it but the main techs dont. The main reason for this in the past is that peeps have said "I am MCSE and I know a lot about PC's" when it comes to the crunch they are nothing more than a PC geek who knows very little about anything other than Word and Excel.

I do have to ask though, would their opinion be the same if the person had other qualifications as well ... i.e. is it a pet hate for those courses in particular or is it just people who go there with just that and think they're greatly qualified?

I ask as I'll be down the line in a couple of years time have my BSC and MSC in computer programming and was looking to get those as an extra bonus. Is it really worth it?

In terms of those other courses which hold expiry dates, that'll probably be an aim after I've earnt a bit of cash and have 3-5yewars experience in the industry. No point getting them when I'm going to be looking at a junior programming position I guess as it wouldn't be necessary for those types of jobs.

Things like test king, actual tests etc have really destroyed the value of the MCSE cert, but miscrosoft are working on it making the exam more lab based rather than simply answering multiple choice questions.

Check out this:
10 tech certifications that actually mean something | 10 Things | TechRepublic.com

Just out of interest Kryten, what is this job which is your dream job? I'm seriously thinking of looking around for something, just need a little inspiration....

Very nice list, thanks, repped

 

[Kryten]

Just out of interest Kryten, what is this job which is your dream job? I'm seriously thinking of looking around for something, just need a little inspiration....

Local place dealing in WEEE recycling of redundant/unused IT equipment, ranging from desk phones to entire server rooms. And a majority isn't ancient stuff either - of course we get our fair share of 286's and those sewing machine style "portable computers" but we get in everything up to dual core systems, multiple processor Xeon kit, networking gear, lots of Sun and Cisco equipment etc.
I'm one of the head engineers, or the head engineer when the other guy's off site Just getting my hands dirty - refurbishing and imaging systems, secure data destruction using Ministry of Defence (HMG) approved software and hardware.
I absolutely love it, it keeps my hyperactive mind very busy, I'm always learning something, I've got the responsibility and flexibility to take an hour to myself and have a fiddle with something that interests me - at the moment I'm stacking up Cisco hardware and learning my way around IOS and many other aspects of its use and administration.

All with just a couple of years experience and a lifetime hobby on my CV.

That experience alone will probably see me fit for employment for the rest of my life. I know I sometimes go on about it something chronic, but when it's something I enjoy that much, why not

 

[PLightstar]

Thank you for all the advice.
The problem is a lot of my skills are self taught and some of my knowledge has gaps in it epically when it comes to Exchange. I am kinda of a Network Admin for my current company but it is only a small company of about 15 users and I don't have any qualifications, which has restricted me to moving on to other companies.

Thank you for the list, I will try and get hold of the course material so at least I can fill in the gaps then maybe look at going straight to MS to do the exams or something along those lines.

 

[Darthshearer]

I do have to ask though, would their opinion be the same if the person had other qualifications as well ... i.e. is it a pet hate for those courses in particular or is it just people who go there with just that and think they're greatly qualified?

I would say thats just it. They ahve home knowledge and an MCSE and think they are the bees knees. However experiance in any job is priceless IMO and if you have that youll be very emplyable.

I ask as I'll be down the line in a couple of years time have my BSC and MSC in computer programming and was looking to get those as an extra bonus. Is it really worth it?

I cant 100% say but my gfriends brother is a developer and programmer and he doesnt have an MCSE or CISCO or Red Hat or anything and he doesnt have any problems getting work. He is self employed too.

Good luck all

 

[ford prefect]

I've never worked in IT, but it is a hobby. I've been messing around with different OS's for years and building my own PC's since the early 90's (Got hooked on computers when I had a Commodore PET in 1981).

I do however work for the NHS and have a lot of dealing with various IT departments as I work all over the country and often have to patch into networks at various hosptials and research facilities to update or download records. A lot of the staff support staff are MCSE qualified or have other high flying qualifactions, and it often astonishes me, just how little they know. For example last week it took the head of one IT dept nearly three days to get me access to a network printer.

It tends to be the less qualified guys (and gals), who often come up with the most intuitive solutions to various problems. In fact I suspect the one unqualified lady in my local IT dept is actually a Witch, because some of the code that she has written recently to extract what I need from a truely vast database is nothing short of Vodoo.

A friend of mine who does run an IT dept for a supermarket chain once told me that his superiors love qualifations, he on the other hand always prefers someone who has been getting their hand dirty recently, because they will have at least a vague idea of whats going on with current technology.

 

[Darthshearer]

I've never worked in IT, but it is a hobby. I've been messing around with different OS's for years and building my own PC's since the early 90's (Got hooked on computers when I had a Commodore PET in 1981).

I do however work for the NHS and have a lot of dealing with various IT departments as I work all over the country and often have to patch into networks at various hosptials and research facilities to update or download records. A lot of the staff support staff are MCSE qualified or have other high flying qualifactions, and it often astonishes me, just how little they know. For example last week it took the head of one IT dept nearly three days to get me access to a network printer.

It tends to be the less qualified guys (and gals), who often come up with the most intuitive solutions to various problems. In fact I suspect the one unqualified lady in my local IT dept is actually a Witch, because some of the code that she has written recently to extract what I need from a truely vast database is nothing short of Vodoo.

A friend of mine who does run an IT dept for a supermarket chain once told me that his superiors love qualifations, he on the other hand always prefers someone who has been getting their hand dirty recently, because they will have at least a vague idea of whats going on with current technology.

My mate works for the NHS in Leeds, he isnt MCSE but has CISCO and has a wealth of knowledge and is very good at his job and in fact used to work for a supermarket chain!!!

He also says something similar. The managment love qualis but dont generally have a clue about anything else.

I think its a fine line of having the qualis but also having the relevant experiance.

 

[ford prefect]

My mate works for the NHS in Leeds, he isnt MCSE but has CISCO and has a wealth of knowledge and is very good at his job and in fact used to work for a supermarket chain!!!

He also says something similar. The managment love qualis but dont generally have a clue about anything else.

I think its a fine line of having the qualis but also having the relevant experiance.

Exactly! I wouldn't want to belittle any qualifation, but I think IT is like most things, experience and natural intution and talent are are every bit as important.

 

[Bob007]

My Advice here would be...

Preper as much for a single exam as humanly posible. Also remeber that the MSCE mainly deals with Microsoft products in a domain enviroment. 2000/2003 server with xp pro sp2 or Vista (currently) clients. (Exception will be the client exam which deals with xp/Vista in workgroup and domain)


Try get ya hands on Microsoft blue books. These are IT academy books. These are not openly available in book shops so E-Bay is ya best place, They are a crapy reference book but a great book for hand on labs. Also be aware they require VM's that are pre setup, So ask if they come with VM setup details or the VM images. (i can supply latest set of VM's in anyone needs for 270(2272C) and 290(2272B)).


Spread out for knowledge as much as posible. Don't buy a book and hope that will cover everything. Its not going to happen. There are plenty of resourses around the internet, try to get as much information from all of them as you can.

If you can't get a blue book, set yaself up a lab, 2003 domain controler x2 with active directory and windows xp pro client(or vista client) in the domain. If you only have 1 windows xp machine at home setup up another 2 xp pro VM's in a workgroup enviroment. Set up multi accounts, Set defferent privilages for them and see how it effects how they function in the client enviroment, Just setting this up will cover a fair bit of what you need. Populate AD with OU's, decide on a setup, I'd recommand hybrid location and department, Say something like....
DC= London.
DC= Manchester.
Client= Client.
Add 2 or 3 departments, Sales, Marketing, whatever.
Add 50 or so users. Use a script to set these up, doing that alone would cover a fair bit of information needed for the 290.

As you move up the ladder towards MCSE add other things needed to the VM domain, Exchange server. File server, Print server and so on.

Yes i know this sounds like a fair bit of work, but just doing this will teach you a fair bit of what you need to pass the 7 exams.

Try everything at least once. Even if you think you know how to setup a default user profile and make it mandatory, try it. even if you don't learn anything you are now sure you know how to do it. Share a printer, set permissions for it, check how it effects everyone. set and check how Group Policy Objects at the site/domain/user level effect users and how explicite and implicite GPOs work and how blocking inheritance works and how best to use it. How AD GPO's work with Local Group Policy.

Blue Book Details I currently have.

Managing and Maintaining a Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Enviroment.
Course Number: 2273B
Part Number: X11-48300

Implementing and Supporting Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Course Number: 2272C
Part Number: X11-03538

Also Quals are nice, Experiance is nice, Both in Very Nice

 

[bigfunkymonkey]

Local place dealing in WEEE recycling of redundant/unused IT equipment, ranging from desk phones to entire server rooms. And a majority isn't ancient stuff either - of course we get our fair share of 286's and those sewing machine style "portable computers" but we get in everything up to dual core systems, multiple processor Xeon kit, networking gear, lots of Sun and Cisco equipment etc.
I'm one of the head engineers, or the head engineer when the other guy's off site Just getting my hands dirty - refurbishing and imaging systems, secure data destruction using Ministry of Defence (HMG) approved software and hardware.
I absolutely love it, it keeps my hyperactive mind very busy, I'm always learning something, I've got the responsibility and flexibility to take an hour to myself and have a fiddle with something that interests me - at the moment I'm stacking up Cisco hardware and learning my way around IOS and many other aspects of its use and administration.

All with just a couple of years experience and a lifetime hobby on my CV.

That experience alone will probably see me fit for employment for the rest of my life. I know I sometimes go on about it something chronic, but when it's something I enjoy that much, why not

The company I work(ed) for did a little bit of that over here in northern ireland, but no where near the level of what you're talking about. I am good friends with the guys who were responsibe for the data erasing and restoration and it is something I would love to get into on little deeper, I was thinking actually contemplating trying to start up my own company at one stage but the market over here is extremely competitive and it's really all about contacts, so decided against it (maybe a few more years "networking" and getting to know people would have been required)

I have just passed my CCENT and now going for CCNA, the Cisco stuff really interests me. Very jealous that you have so much Cisco kit readily available, getting to my CCNP (and if I can stick it, CCIE) is looking like it is going to cost an absolute fortune!

Its good to see someone who enjoys their job for a change, I used to be surrounded by people who did nothing but whinge all day about how rubbish their job was but never did anything to improve it for themselves, good on ya!

 

[Kryten]

Well as I said, I consider myself very, very lucky.

Cisco qualifications are impressive by most people's standards. Again the courses and testing is absolutely chock full of theory which makes it rather more difficult for my mindset, but it's information you're likely to use. It makes you understand *why* things are done in a certain way and why things develop how they do, why IP(v4) addresses are the way they are and many other bits of information that get drilled into you. I've only just got to grips with the maths of octets and powers, binary & hex, and a lot more just "makes sense" when you're doing day to day networking. MS qualifications on the other hand don't teach you in the same sort of way which I think tends to make it a lot easier to get the MS qualifications and a lot easier to forget what you've learned.

It is however important to get whatever you can take/afford though, every little does help. Even something as basic as A+ or even an ECDL (!) can get your foot in the door just because someone who's been handed a list of qualifications can match your name against it. Or even worse, large companies who reject/narrow down their list of CV's using automatic word searches - unless the CV contains the initials of the certification, it gets chucked. It happens often.


Ooh, by the way; I know it's no substitute for the real thing but there are a couple of decent Cisco course software packages and IOS emulation programs (I had one that run as a VM before but lost it a couple of years ago), which might be worth a hunt for if you like tinkering and don't have room for the hardware.

 

[Scouse]

I cant 100% say but my gfriends brother is a developer and programmer and he doesnt have an MCSE or CISCO or Red Hat or anything and he doesnt have any problems getting work. He is self employed too.

That's because a developer/programmer doesn't need any of the above - they're not suited to the job.

MCSE - systems engineers - useful if your job is implementing microsoft architechture across big businesses. (I'm self-employed, do this job and have this - went to India and did a 6-week boot camp I paid for myself).

If you want to be a network engineer do yer CCNA for a start. Did this too but it's lapsed now and I cba doing it again.


They're all worthwhile now. If someone chucks your CV in the bin for having a certification it smacks of them being jealous and not knowing what they're doing - so no loss there m8...

Nothing beats experience though - EXCEPT experience+certs