Politics Margaret Hodge

[Embattle]

Yes that great critic of tax avoidance and chair of PAC - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...on-2.1bn-of-business-generated-in-the-UK.html

 

[Raven]

Stupid bitch.

 

[throdgrain]

Holier-than-thou lefty do-gooder is really just as self-serving as everyone else - suprise!

 

[Chilly]

It's completely legal...

 

[old.Tohtori]

What a hodgepodge.

 

[Tom]

Oh for God's sake, YOU PAY TAX ON PROFIT NOT TURNOVER.

 

[mr.Blacky]

but that company made profits of £65m

 

[DaGaffer]

Oh for God's sake, YOU PAY TAX ON PROFIT NOT TURNOVER.

but that company made profits of £65m

Tom has a point as the headline takes the turnover figure to make the issue look worse than it is, but as you point out, they made 65m profit, which means they paid 0.25% tax in the UK, so something's fishy despite the headline

 

[Tom]

but that company made profits of £65m

When? And what was its profit the year before? And what percentage of those profits were taken out as dividends?

All important information that the article fails to lay out, despite such records being publicly available at Companies House.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Oh the article is rather "short".
I do not know the laws in the UK for previous profits?
But what has dividends have to do with taxing on profits?

 

[Chilly]

Oh the article is rather "short".
I do not know the laws in the UK for previous profits?
But what has dividends have to do with taxing on profits?

If a company made a loss a previous year (or even several years ago) that loss may be offset against profits this (or in future) years. Moving tax losses around efficiently is a cornerstone of effective company management. A company has a duty to pay as little tax as possible within the law. Unless that changes, nothing else will.
You pay divis, then the rest is profit. Divis are charged at income tax rates for the shareholders receiving them.

 

[rynnor]

I think the interesting bit was that the company was only paying a few percent of its tax bill to the UK despite a large chunk of its revenue being generated here.

The reason why revenue was quoted is because the MPs comittee that she is on has gone on about Starbucks only paying tax equal to a small percentage of its revenue - but her families company is paying a lot less than starbucks on revenue (which is a stupid thing to base anything on but they did it).

 

[Embattle]

http://www.stemcor.com/Profit-and-Loss-Account.aspx

 

[rynnor]

http://www.stemcor.com/Profit-and-Loss-Account.aspx

Seems a high cost of sales for a commodity trader?

 

[Raven]

That's a crazy cost of sale.

 

[Embattle]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/10/utilities-water-bills

 

[Scouse]

*cough* structural reform *cough*

 

[rynnor]

*cough* structural reform *cough*

Is that code for 'come the revolution they will be first against the wall comrades!' ?

 

[Turamber]

There is some misinformation in this thread. Company profits, at least in the UK, are taxed in the profits before the dividends. Then in the hands of the recipient, although tax is calculated, a dividend tax credit reflects the fact that the company has paid tax on the profits the dividends were paid out of.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxon/uk.htm#3

I do find the Government (and the media's) crusade on businesses to be tiresome. The Government make the rules and companies abide by them. There is legislation in place to tackle multi-nationals hiding profits in low tax rate countries. Don't moan about, use the legislation or change the legislation. Then be prepared to see multi-nationals scale down or pull out increasing our unemployed, increasing our dole payments, lowering PAYE and NIC collected and lowering VAT taken from consumers.

 

[Scouse]

be prepared to see multi-nationals scale down or pull out

That's a bullshit fallacy that keeps being bandied around when the evidence shows otherwise. There's still a load of money to be made in the UK.

It's like saying the rich will leave if we tax them. They don't - all their friends live here.


Even if you don't accept those points - the facts are that they're not paying tax - so they can happily fuck of somewhere else and leave a massive hole in the market for some enterprising person to fill with a company that pays its way.

 

[rynnor]

That's a bullshit fallacy that keeps being bandied around when the evidence shows otherwise. There's still a load of money to be made in the UK.

On this bit I agree - there may be a few exceptions but companies like starbucks are here to access our market - they cant just shift their coffee shops elsewhere

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm with Scouse on this one; the idea that multi-nationals will pull out of the world's 5th largest economy if they're forced to pay their taxes is laughable, and even if they did, so what.? "The market will provide".

A good example is Germany; lots of retailers avoid expanding into Germany because its an absolute pain in the arse from a regulatory and tax perspective; and yet amazingly, Germans still.manage to get hold of their morning coffee and bratwurst, and strangely still.have lots of money when the rest of us don't have a pot to piss in.

 

[TdC]

true that. was reading some scary things about economies and finances yesterday before delicious sleeps. the more I know the less I like and the more I hate the world tbh. sorry, please carry on

 

[Scouse]

the more I know the less I like and the more I hate the world tbh.

Don't let it get you down Teedles. Get angry instead

 

[Turamber]

I was hoping you'd take a moment to consider the benefits of having these large corporations trading here. But no, its all about facepalms and flaming. Whilst not knowing jack about how corporation tax and dividends interact, which probably sums up the value of your thoughts on the subject to be fair.

 

[Scouse]

I was hoping you'd take a moment to consider the benefits of having these large corporations trading here. But no, its all about facepalms and flaming. Whilst not knowing jack about how corporation tax and dividends interact, which probably sums up the value of your thoughts on the subject to be fair.

I run my own Limited Company Turamber and know exactly how corporation tax and dividends interact as I pay myself in nice big dividends and avoid as much corporation tax as possible.

That's why last year I paid less than 10% on 70 grand - and why I've been able to afford to take this year off to play games, the guitar, read and masturbate and spend a LOT of time cycling and in the pub.


I was hoping you'd take a moment to consider that we can have the "large corporations" you talk about here - AND have them pay tax.

 

[TdC]

That's why last year I paid less than 10% on 70 grand

I hate you

 

[Scouse]

I hate you

Don't hate me bud. Hate the system that doesn't just "allow" me to do that - it's set up for just that reason.

Tax is optional - governments know this (as many MP's take advantage of the same things) - and the "masses" get fucked over because they either don't believe in direct action - or haven't got the balls to take it. In fact, "the masses" hate people who do.

It's why I'm for systemic change. Unless the system is changed then I'm fucked if I'm going to voluntarily pay shitloads of tax when the rich don't have to.

 

[Raven]

I was hoping you'd take a moment to consider the benefits of having these large corporations trading here. But no, its all about facepalms and flaming. Whilst not knowing jack about how corporation tax and dividends interact, which probably sums up the value of your thoughts on the subject to be fair.

Perhaps you should understand how supply and demand work.

If the whole system was sorted out so that abuse was not so easy and Starbucks where forced to stop fucking about and therefore upped sticks and fucked off, would anyone notice, or care?

No because someone else would take their place...either another large corporation or small firms. Someone who actually paid a realistic amount of corporation tax without fiddling the (admittedly dodgy) system.

These corps are only there because there is a need or desire for them, if they were to stop operating then that need would simply be filled by something else.

But please, go ahead and tell us all of the benefits of having a minimum wage paying, tax avoiding foreign corporation on every high street?

 

[TdC]

Don't hate me bud. Hate the system that doesn't just "allow" me to do that - it's set up for just that reason.

Tax is optional - governments know this (as many MP's take advantage of the same things) - and the "masses" get fucked over because they either don't believe in direct action - or haven't got the balls to take it. In fact, "the masses" hate people who do.

It's why I'm for systemic change. Unless the system is changed then I'm fucked if I'm going to voluntarily pay shitloads of tax when the rich don't have to.

I don't literally hate you, except that I am in the same boat other than I am not my own boss and pay 33-52% tax on my earnings. (first tier 33, second tier 40 iirc and third tier 52)