Man U V Chelski

[Raven]

already said i am a neutral so you can jump up and down all you like

It seems to me man utd have spent, what, 50 mil? over the last couple of years? chealski must be near 200 mil at least. I see lots of people bang on about how much Man utd have spent on players, they obviously havn't noticed all the youth academy players that they have brought through to win their titles/cups, people that actually want to play for man utd, not their next wage cheque.
You also get a lot more Chelsea fans that up to a couple of years ago were life long arsenal fans, before that life long man utd fans and before that Liverpool man and boy, i don't like the way Chelsea have bought success but you cant deny they are good to watch but they will never achieve what man utd have.

 

[Hawkwind]

already said i am a neutral so you can jump up and down all you like

It seems to me man utd have spent, what, 50 mil? over the last couple of years? chealski must be near 200 mil at least. I see lots of people bang on about how much Man utd have spent on players, they obviously havn't noticed all the youth academy players that they have brought through to win their titles/cups, people that actually want to play for man utd, not their next wage cheque.

Now take that back a few more years say 10 and check whats been spent by both clubs. Not such a great difference I bet. Ferguson bought quite a few duds in that time as well.

 

[Bracken]

all the youth academy players that they have brought through to win their titles/cups, people that actually want to play for man utd, not their next wage cheque.

The treble winning Man Utd team was very much home grown and on that night when they beat Bayern I was cheering them on as loudly as any English football fan. It's what's happened since then, most noteably the arrogance of their fans which ensured they've become the most hated club in the country.

Everyone knows Chelsea's success has been bought, but having put up with the arrogance of the Man U fans when they've come to Villa Park any team that sticks it up the Mancs is fine by me.

Plus it's so ironic that Man U fans harp on about what Chelsea have spent when they have not produced a single first team player of their own since that treble winning team. Fletcher and O'Shea are the nearest they've got to that and they are bench warmers. Go through the Man U starting 11 yesterday and apart from the treble winners Neville, Scholes and Giggs every single one of that team was bought for megabucks (except Van Der Sar who they got on the cheap).

If you want to see a home grown team look at Villa - in last weeks game at Wigan we had 5 players who had been in the Villa Youth Cup winning team 2 years before. On Saturday against Middlesbro we had 4 with 2 more on the bench. Just a shame we got robbed by an offside goal

 

[Calaen]

The treble winning Man Utd team was very much home grown and on that night when they beat Bayern I was cheering them on as loudly as any English football fan. It's what's happened since then, most noteably the arrogance of their fans which ensured they've become the most hated club in the country.

Everyone knows Chelsea's success has been bought, but having put up with the arrogance of the Man U fans when they've come to Villa Park any team that sticks it up the Mancs is fine by me.

Plus it's so ironic that Man U fans harp on about what Chelsea have spent when they have not produced a single first team player of their own since that treble winning team. Fletcher and O'Shea are the nearest they've got to that and they are bench warmers. Go through the Man U starting 11 yesterday and apart from the treble winners Neville, Scholes and Giggs every single one of that team was bought for megabucks (except Van Der Sar who they got on the cheap).

If you want to see a home grown team look at Villa - in last weeks game at Wigan we had 5 players who had been in the Villa Youth Cup winning team 2 years before. On Saturday against Middlesbro we had 4 with 2 more on the bench. Just a shame we got robbed by an offside goal

Vidic 5million Heinze 5million hardly massive bucks Ronaldo wasnt that expensive when you consider the over the top price Chelsea paid for wright philips. Saha 11.5 million is pennies compared to the 30million for Shevchenko.

Man Utd showed yesterday that they can compete with Chelsea, they could have probably won the game as well. If Man Utd can get passed christmas in front I thin kthey will win the title because they always finish the season on a high.

 

[Marc]

Sahas goal was straight out of the top drawer. Im sorry, but for £30million, you want to be expecting Shevchenko to be banging them in for fun. Ballack looks a waste of £100 and odd grand a week aswell. I still dont know what all the fuss about Lampard is either.

Im tipping Man Utd to win the league this year. You can see the team spirit they have, they would all die for the cause. Chelsea, im not sure. They seem like a team who are just happy to pick up their pay cheque every week.

 

[Unleashed]

I think people forget it took Man U 20 + years to get where they are today. Increased capacity along the way = more income.

And of course in that time they were successful, so winning trophies brings in more revenue.

Chelsea on the other hand were just handed money on a plate. 3 years ago they were on verge of going bankrupt.
Last 20 years they have one the odd cup, but never really challenged Man U/Arsenal/Liverpool in winning the league.

 

[Vladamir]

Man Utd showed yesterday that they can compete with Chelsea, they could have probably won the game as well. If Man Utd can get passed christmas in front I thin kthey will win the title because they always finish the season on a high.

Chelsea could've won it too, they dominated the second half after switching Geremi for Robben. Essien i thought played really well at right back given the situation.

Admittedly Sheva is still flakey and it's been a while since he arrived, but still the transition from Italian football to the pace and strength of the premiership is obviously still taking it's time.

Shame really because him and Drogba looked pretty fierce against Villa/Watford a few weeks ago.

 

[Bracken]

Vidic 5million Heinze 5million hardly massive bucks Ronaldo wasnt that expensive when you consider the over the top price Chelsea paid for wright philips. Saha 11.5 million is pennies compared to the 30million for Shevchenko.

Man Utd showed yesterday that they can compete with Chelsea, they could have probably won the game as well. If Man Utd can get passed christmas in front I thin kthey will win the title because they always finish the season on a high.

See that's the thing. You've just named £20mill+ spent on 3 players. Add to that the £30mill each on Rooney and Ferdinand, £12mill on Ronaldo, £18mill on Carrick and it starts to take on a new perspective. For the average Prem club the amount Man U have spent is just as much off the scale as Chelsea's - once you go past a certain point it becomes irrelevant whether it's £20 or £30 mill that's going on a single player. It's so hypocritical for Man U fans to make any points about Chelsea's spending - for the average club they are both out of our league.

Sahas goal was straight out of the top drawer. Im sorry, but for £30million, you want to be expecting Shevchenko to be banging them in for fun. Ballack looks a waste of £100 and odd grand a week aswell. I still dont know what all the fuss about Lampard is either.

Im tipping Man Utd to win the league this year. You can see the team spirit they have, they would all die for the cause. Chelsea, im not sure. They seem like a team who are just happy to pick up their pay cheque every week.

Was a beaut from Saha. The lineup that Man U put out yesterday is just about capable of winning the league - it's if/when they get injuries they won't. The Man U squad just doesn't have the depth of Chelsea's (look at the benches yesterday) and for that reason I'm still expecting Chelsea to win it. Man U would need another top quality striker and midfielder in January to be able to maintain their current position. Besides, having taken the lead yesterday a title-winning side would have gone on to take the 3 points. If Chelsea take the lead against Man U at Stamford Bridge I'd put money on them going on to take all the points.

As for Shevchenko, I still think he'll come good - just needs time like any player, though £30 mill for a 29 year old was always looking like too much. I agree about Lampard - I've been thinking for a while he's over rated and should lose his central mid England spot to Gerrard.

 

[Vladamir]

As for Shevchenko, I still think he'll come good - just needs time like any player, though £30 mill for a 29 year old was always looking like too much. I agree about Lampard - I've been thinking for a while he's over rated and should lose his central mid England spot to Gerrard.

I think this is a bit unfair. If you take a look at performances this season, Lampard has been better than Gerrard, though it probably reflects on the fact Gerrard has played virtually every position other than his favoured central midfield role.

Lampard's scored 5 in the league, Gerrard 1. Lampard is one goal off being Chelsea's highest scoring midfielder, and he's playing well imo, given the change in formation to a diamond, and co existing with Ballack.

 

[cHodAX]

to me football is supporting your local team.. not growing up in london watching MAN UTD winning trophys on the tv saying "yey i support man utd" lmao

Totally agree. I am a Mancunian United fan btw

 

[cHodAX]

LOL ... he is a Villa fan ..not liverpool if thats what u was implying.

Lol, it must have been the beer your honor! That pic looked like a Liverpool badge with my beer goggles on!

 

[cHodAX]

See that's the thing. You've just named £20mill+ spent on 3 players. Add to that the £30mill each on Rooney and Ferdinand, £12mill on Ronaldo, £18mill on Carrick and it starts to take on a new perspective. For the average Prem club the amount Man U have spent is just as much off the scale as Chelsea's - once you go past a certain point it becomes irrelevant whether it's £20 or £30 mill that's going on a single player. It's so hypocritical for Man U fans to make any points about Chelsea's spending - for the average club they are both out of our league.

Oh come on, that is 4 years worth of United spending you are comparing to 12 months of Chelsea spending. United have averaged alot less than £30 million a year over the course of last 5 years. Chelsea are pushing on for something like £300 million in 3 years iirc. I am still not saying they have bought success though, they have a talented manager and he has spent well. Cept for Bollocks and Shevspankme.

 

[soze]

Oh come on, that is 4 years worth of United spending you are comparing to 12 months of Chelsea spending. United have averaged alot less than £30 million a year over the course of last 5 years. Chelsea are pushing on for something like £300 million in 3 years iirc. I am still not saying they have bought success though, they have a talented manager and he has spent well. Cept for Bollocks and Shevspankme.

Have not bought success if moronio was not on 40 to 50 a week he would not be at chelski so abramo buying him is the same as buying a player

 

[Vladamir]

Oh come on, that is 4 years worth of United spending you are comparing to 12 months of Chelsea spending. United have averaged alot less than £30 million a year over the course of last 5 years. Chelsea are pushing on for something like £300 million in 3 years iirc. I am still not saying they have bought success though, they have a talented manager and he has spent well. Cept for Bollocks and Shevspankme.

Time papa Cho, give it time

 

[cHodAX]

Time papa Cho, give it time

Sheva won't adapt, he is too used to playing in leagues where the strikers get time to turn with the ball, not something that is afforded to Premier League strikers very often. In many ways it shows just what a class act Titty Henri is, he adapted his game to English football very quickly but then he was in his very early 20's when he came here. Sheva is too long in the tooth to change his style of play, class is class and I won't run the guy down but he isn't suited to the English style of play or the physicality.

As for Ballack, again there is no denying the guy has a proven pedigree, right now his problems are more related to form than anything. He just hasn't settled yet but given time he has more than enough ability to shine. That said though he is playing for a place in a very overcrowed Chelsea midfield and frankly something has to give, right now his form doesn't merit a place and it is only a matter of time before the players on the sidelines are going to get tired of playing second fiddle to an out of form team mate. Jose can't really justify leaving either Essien, Makalele or Cole on the bench right now considering Ballack's lack of form and when you think about it Ballack and Lampard really don't compliment each other postitionally speaking. Something has to give, you just can't have that many world class midfielders sat on the bench all season and I can see Ballack being thrown to the wolves if his form doesn't come good before long. Chelsea didn't pay a penny for him so it is a win-win for them in many ways, either he plays great and he was a bargain or he doesn't play great and they offload him to Italy for £15 million at the end of the season. The alternate is unthinkable, letting either Cole/Makalele/Essien move on, they were the heart and soul of a very impressive Chelsea side last year.

 

[Calaen]

Chelsea do not play the type of football for Shevo to benefit. He has to do to much donkey work.

Newcastle Utd have spent millions with no success at all in recent years.

 

[Vladamir]

As for Ballack, again there is no denying the guy has a proven pedigree, right now his problems are more related to form than anything. He just hasn't settled yet but given time he has more than enough ability to shine. That said though he is playing for a place in a very overcrowed Chelsea midfield and frankly something has to give, right now his form doesn't merit a place and it is only a matter of time before the players on the sidelines are going to get tired of playing second fiddle to an out of form team mate. Jose can't really justify leaving either Essien, Makalele or Cole on the bench right now considering Ballack's lack of form and when you think about it Ballack and Lampard really don't compliment each other postitionally speaking.

Something has to give, you just can't have that many world class midfielders sat on the bench all season and I can see Ballack being thrown to the wolves if his form doesn't come good before long. Chelsea didn't pay a penny for him so it is a win-win for them in many ways, either he plays great and he was a bargain or he doesn't play great and they offload him to Italy for £15 million at the end of the season. The alternate is unthinkable, letting either Cole/Makalele/Essien move on, they were the heart and soul of a very impressive Chelsea side last year.

Well Makalele is 33 going on 34 this season, at a guess he's got one good season after this, two at a push before retirement. As i believe Essien will take over this role, just in front of the back 4, as a play maker. The advantage he has over Maka is he's great at getting forward, what he lacks though is the way Maka can just get the ball with ease, though he is in his early 20's still.

It's a shame Robben/Cole have been on the bench for so long this season, Cole's comes with his injury as of recently so his playing time is short for safety i'd assume. Robben on the otherhand expressed his unhapiness a few weeks ago about his lack of first team football, which is being addressed now thankfully.

Wright Phillips hopefully will move on in the transfer window. He's a quality player but he's not on the same level as our other wingers and the rest of the midfield. If he heads to West Ham (which looks likely) he'll pick up his form and hopefully offer England something decent down the right, allowing Cole to move over to the left where he's just as capable.

Even with Boulharouz's signing it seems a little strange now. Geremi's pretty much claiming his place at right back now, and deservedly so, he's a quality player, everyone i know loves him.

If they thinned out the squad a bit i think we'd improve much more, the cohesion of the team would improve so much and you'd really see a good Chelsea side play.

 

[cHodAX]

If they thinned out the squad a bit i think we'd improve much more, the cohesion of the team would improve so much and you'd really see a good Chelsea side play.

Yep, I do think letting Duff go was a mistake as well, Wright-Phillps might have great penetration but his overall game still leaves alot to be desired. Duff on the other hand was a great team player, he provied an awful lot of ammo for the strikers during Chelsea's two championship seasons and it a battle you know he wouldn't go missing.

 

[Vladamir]

Yep, I do think letting Duff go was a mistake as well, Wright-Phillps might have great penetration but his overall game still leaves alot to be desired. Duff on the other hand was a great team player, he provied an awful lot of ammo for the strikers during Chelsea's two championship seasons and it a battle you know he wouldn't go missing.

Problem is though, it's another midfielder we'd have. Robben imo is better than Duff, though they don't play the exact same position. Robben's a lot more attacking-orientated than Duff, though as you said Duff was one of the best team players we had.

But i'm glad he moved on, he deserved more first team football and as with Gudjohnson there was no hard feelings anywhere regarding their moves elsewhere.

Fuck knows when John Mikel Obi is fitting in too

 

[Bracken]

Oh come on, that is 4 years worth of United spending you are comparing to 12 months of Chelsea spending. United have averaged alot less than £30 million a year over the course of last 5 years. Chelsea are pushing on for something like £300 million in 3 years iirc. I am still not saying they have bought success though, they have a talented manager and he has spent well. Cept for Bollocks and Shevspankme.

The point is that £30million a year over 5 years is way off the scale for just about every other Prem club - and Man Utd fans were quite happy with that situation. Now Chelsea are outspending Man Utd they are bleating about it which is just hypocritical. That said, Man Utd got where they are now originally due to Ferguson's youth policy - it's only the last 5 years that's gone out the window. I agree with you about Chelsea not buying success in that Mourinho has done a terrific job - although whether he'd have gone there without the spending being available is another matter.

 

[cHodAX]

The point is that £30million a year over 5 years is way off the scale for just about every other Prem club - and Man Utd fans were quite happy with that situation. Now Chelsea are outspending Man Utd they are bleating about it which is just hypocritical. That said, Man Utd got where they are now originally due to Ferguson's youth policy - it's only the last 5 years that's gone out the window. I agree with you about Chelsea not buying success in that Mourinho has done a terrific job - although whether he'd have gone there without the spending being available is another matter.

Balls, Newcastle for a start have spent well over £120 million in the last 5 years and they can't even get into Europe. Liverpool have spent pretty big as well, easily over £100 million and they haven't had mounted a decent challenge for the league either. Also lets put this in to perspective here, United have had capacity crowds of 65000+ for over 5 years now, that generates alot of revenue and of course the club are going to invest that in players. Newcastle get great crowds but they are effectively spending money just to stand still, Liverpool likewise. Chelsea have spent £300 million off the back of medicore crowd capacity, they are operating at a massive loss to stay at the top of the food chain.

So please, don't blame United for being a well supported club, we had that long long before the glory days. We have consistently had the biggest crowds for many decades, that is what generated the funds to start the redevelopment of Old Trafford in the first place. At no point under Ferguson's reign have United spent money they didn't have, we have stayed in the black unlike every other club in the league. Here is irony for you, when Arsenal and Chelsea are fielding thier sides with no English players United can claim 4 lads from Greater Manchester alone.

What I am trying to get across is this, we built our success based on a great local support (history proves that) and bringing through lots of young local and British talent. Name me any other top 5 club who can make the same claim. Hell even our 2 biggest transfer fees were for young British players so we may have spent big but at least we invested in our own and not a squad full foreign internationals. Yes we have spent big over the last few years but of the major signings only Veron didn't work out and I still for the life of me can't work out why Fergie felt he needed to buy him.

Most United fans aren't bleating about Chelsea spending big either (cept for the whinging bandwagon jumpers) , we understand all too well that buying big name foreign players can backfire we have been caught short a number of times. I will give credit where credit is due to Jose, he has bought pretty well and that shows in 2 league titles, there are very few managers around who could spend that kind of money and still deliver what he has delivered for Chelsea. We have all seen the money Newcastle and Leeds pissed away and look at them now, it takes real skill to spend well and even more to turn all those big signings into a team, Jose takes all the credit for doing a great job with that. No one beats Wenger for getting the best out of very little money though, that guy is genius at developing young unknowns. If he stays at Arsenal it won't be too long before they are Champions again and that isn't easy for a United fan to say.

 

[Hawkwind]

Yes we have spent big over the last few years but of the major signings only Veron didn't work out and I still for the life of me can't work out why Fergie felt he needed to buy him.

Kleberson, Porborski (sp), Forlan, Djemba Djemba, David Bellion, Laurent Blanc, Liam Miller, Mark 'the sniffer' Bosnich, Massimo Taibi........

To a lesser extent Cruyff. Try explaining those away as great buys that served Man Utd well. I cannot think of any other top Manager who has spent so much money on so many lemons.

As for managers/clubs that bring a lot of British talent through youth set ups into the Premiership how about West Ham?

 

[Marc]

Kleberson, Porborski (sp), Forlan, Djemba Djemba, David Bellion, Laurent Blanc, Liam Miller, Mark 'the sniffer' Bosnich, Massimo Taibi........

To a lesser extent Cruyff. Try explaining those away as great buys that served Man Utd well. I cannot think of any other top Manager who has spent so much money on so many lemons.

Rafa Benitez and Jose Mourinho. There are 2 for u

 

[Bracken]

Most United fans aren't bleating about Chelsea spending big either (cept for the whinging bandwagon jumpers)

Well those are the one's that get the (few ) genuine Man U fans a bad name - they make stupid comments about how much Chelsea have spent when they themselves were outspending every other Prem club before Abramovich. Newcastle and Liverpool have spent heavily but still not at the levels of Man Utd. As for the rest of us we've just had to dream about spending those levels (although now we have Randy who knows...). I've no problem clubs spending money when they can afford it - and as I said it was Ferguson's youth policy originally that earned them the treble. It's the arrogance of many Man Utd fans over the years, particularly since the treble, that's caused the problem. At Villa Park we always get a few opposition fans in our end but on the whole they behave - the only club (apart from the Blues) where they cause problems on a regular basis are Man Utd and it's simply because of their attitude. The arrogance of their fans is astonishing and it's that which has got them the bad name.

 

[Calaen]

Kleberson, Porborski (sp), Forlan, Djemba Djemba, David Bellion, Laurent Blanc, Liam Miller, Mark 'the sniffer' Bosnich, Massimo Taibi........

To a lesser extent Cruyff. Try explaining those away as great buys that served Man Utd well. I cannot think of any other top Manager who has spent so much money on so many lemons.

As for managers/clubs that bring a lot of British talent through youth set ups into the Premiership how about West Ham?

Lauren Blanc was a great signing for Ferguson, he got us through a bad season and showed that while he lacked pace the ability he had more than covers for it. Bellion, Djemba, Taibi, Bosnich, Miller were not exactly expensive. Forlan left Man utd and became top scorer in the Spanish league that speaks enough for his actual talent. His play style just did not fit into Utd's.

 

[cHodAX]

Kleberson, Porborski (sp), Forlan, Djemba Djemba, David Bellion, Laurent Blanc, Liam Miller, Mark 'the sniffer' Bosnich, Massimo Taibi........

To a lesser extent Cruyff. Try explaining those away as great buys that served Man Utd well. I cannot think of any other top Manager who has spent so much money on so many lemons.

As for managers/clubs that bring a lot of British talent through youth set ups into the Premiership how about West Ham?

Only one of those players cost anything close to big money and that was Forlan at £7.5 million so your point is what exactly? That United have made some bad buys? What team in the land can say they haven't ever taken a risk on a player? I could name half a dozen players for each of the top 5 clubs who were flops just in the last 5 years.

Oh and Blanc wasn't a flop, won 2 league titles as I recall and filled a gap while Wes Brown went through 2 horrific years of solid injury. Liam Miller cost us nothing iirc, Klerberson was £5 million and never had a chance after coming to England he got a bad injury and his son was very very ill, the family just never settled and it badly affected his game. You don't win 30+ caps for Brazil without reason. Bellion cost us buttons, he was well worth a punt as he was young and showed promise but sometimes it doesn't work out, that happens at every club in the land. Djemba Djemba? Christ knows what fergie was thinking there!

West Ham? Hmm, now I recall an awful lot of foreign imports who turned out to be complete flops for the Hammers under Harry Ballsack. I can do research and name some names if needed. Yes they have started to bring alot of good young talent through though in the last decade and fair play to them for it to be honest, not many other Premiership clubs who can say the same.

 

[Calaen]

As for managers/clubs that bring a lot of British talent through youth set ups into the Premiership how about West Ham?

They bring in no more than Man Utd. Everyone knows that you are never going to get 2 or 3 new players coming through every year from the youth policy its just not possible.

 

[Hawkwind]

Only one of those players cost anything close to big money and that was Forlan at £7.5 million so your point is what exactly?

You stated in an earlier post that of all the money spent by Ferguson only Veron had not worked out. Was just pointing out otherwise.

Afraid I'm with Bracken, I'm fed up with Utd fans bleating about Chealsea buying the Premiership just because they can outspend their own team. It seems to me that Utd fans are as deluded as Ferguson when it comes to their precious team. Claiming some kind of victory after a 1-1 home draw against Chelsea was priceless!

I don't really mind who wins this year as long as its not Utd. It certainly won't be my team.

 

[Calaen]

You stated in an earlier post that of all the money spent by Ferguson only Veron had not worked out. Was just pointing out otherwise.

Afraid I'm with Bracken, I'm fed up with Utd fans bleating about Chealsea buying the Premiership just because they can outspend their own team. It seems to me that Utd fans are as deluded as Ferguson when it comes to their precious team. Claiming some kind of victory after a 1-1 home draw against Chelsea was priceless!

I don't really mind who wins this year as long as its not Utd. It certainly won't be my team.

I dont care about how much Chelsea have spent.

You also must not have watched the interviews afterwards, because it was Chelsea claiming the victory and Man Utd claiming they had dropped two points. So tell me agian what match were you watching on Sunday at 4:00?

 

[Bracken]

Everyone knows that you are never going to get 2 or 3 new players coming through every year from the youth policy its just not possible.

We've done it for the last few years. Luke Moore, Stephen Davis, Liam Ridgewell, Isiaih Osbourne, Gary Cahill, Gabby Agbonlahor are all in the first team squad when fit, (5 of them played Saturday while Moore is injured) and then we have Peter Whittingham, Jlloyd Samuel, Craig Gardner and Sam Williams all on the fringes aswell.