[INFO] Magus nerf inc :D

[pikeh]

lol that blog is so inaccurate it makes me wanna cry =\

I stopped reading when he compared Word of Pain with Slow Boil.

You aren't going to get a completely non-biased view either way. He actually talks about the skills a little bit rather than just stating 'same' after each one.

I think the whole situation is compounded by the fact every order player and there dog plays a BW. Fix resistances and I bet Bw's will be crying nerf just as much as anyone at the moment.

 

[Mabs]

All I can say is I scanned through a few threads and repeatedly see you going OMGAWD BW SO OP NERF NERF CRY CRY and its sad and I wanted to laugh at you because you think BW are sooo OP and anyone can play them and they own because they are OP and not because the person controlling the toon is actually good at what they do and, shock horror, you suck.

OMGAWD BW SO OP NERF NERF CRY CRY

1 er, where please? oh wait, your making shit up, smooth

2 your a muppet. end of. your a warhammer alliance hardman, obviously, who joined FH recently ? possibly one of those banned..hmm, i wonder

3 bw are soooo OP. no, i said they needed fixing. they were/are broken. l2 read

4 you arent as good as you think you are. in all the years ive been around MMOers, almost EVERY - SINGLE - PERSON who posts on forums with the "is better than you" comments turns out to be : very young, rather pathetic, and a bit shit, tbh.

5 also, i was suprised to see you play on my server, and both my daoc servers, and was in eve at the same time as me, and on my wow server, played UO with me, and AO, and AC 1 and 2, and lotro, and potbs, and all the others over the years. so you know my playstyle down to a tee so you can comment on it with some authority

so ill state this very simply for your dim intellect

PROVE to me that there is NOTHING WRONG with your fotm class
or
stfu

your such a legend in your own lunchtime, this should prove amazingly easy , no ?

 

[aika]

You aren't going to get a completely non-biased view either way. He actually talks about the skills a little bit rather than just stating 'same' after each one.

I think the whole situation is compounded by the fact every order player and there dog plays a BW. Fix resistances and I bet Bw's will be crying nerf just as much as anyone at the moment.

this is the best you can get

Sorceress vs. Bright Wizard In depth look - Warhammer Forums

 

[Soazak]

Doombolt is a 3 second cast its not even do-able in 4 seconds, I can put 4 dots on someone in 3 seconds ? 1.4k is a tick of 2 seperate dots ? crits of course, what you want them to hit for 10 damage each (this is every 3 seconds might I add), I spec'd into dots to make them better I want them to hit hard. If I wanted to nuke hard I would have spec'd the single target damage tree.

Now if I was critting people for 2k fireballs that would be ok right ? as long as my dots are not doing any meaningfull damage.

Here's another tip, dots are easier to heal through than direct 'burst' damage (PwF excluded) which imho is the sorc's forte (missing little flick on the e ;p)

I've seen ignite hit for 500.
I've seen Detonate hit for 900.
That is 1400+ damage from 1 tick of two dots. Continue this for 9 seconds, once every 3 seconds and that is pretty nice damage over time (and thats before you have applied slowboil, boiling blood, WH) meanwhile you are also free to cast additional spells, such as the uber 1400 damage 3s cast bolts, or the underpowered whithering heat.

Of course it's easy to say you can heal through BW dots without playing with fire. Fair enough since absoloutly no bw spec immolation so wouldn't have pwf right?

After PwF my spec 3s cast heal does 450 or so. I could waste a global cooldown and use Hex removal, but on it's 5s cooldown and the fact it only removes the last hex applied, chances are i'd end up removing Slow boil or hell if I'm unlucky fire cage.

As i've said previously, I don't think they are overpowered, I think the DoT mechanic in this game as a whole needs revamping.
Insta cast stackable dots, on the same damage table as all other debuffs Vs Cure debuff that only removes the last applied, and has a 5s cooldown.

But to deny that BW can put out insane amounts of damage is a little one sided.

lol that blog is so inaccurate it makes me wanna cry =\

I stopped reading when he compared Word of Pain with Slow Boil.

Both debuff the enemy, both inflict damage when the debuff wears off. Stack 3x vs 20s cooldown. I'm not quite sure where you're going with this one, but it's one of the better sources for the comparisons rather than just OMG BW ARE OP or NO WE'RE NOT WE ARE BALANANANACED.

 

[Tiani]

OMGAWD BW SO OP NERF NERF CRY CRY

1 er, where please? oh wait, your making shit up, smooth

2 your a muppet. end of. your a warhammer alliance hardman, obviously, who joined FH recently ? possibly one of those banned..hmm, i wonder

3 bw are soooo OP. no, i said they needed fixing. they were/are broken. l2 read

4 you arent as good as you think you are. in all the years ive been around MMOers, almost EVERY - SINGLE - PERSON who posts on forums with the "is better than you" comments turns out to be : very young, rather pathetic, and a bit shit, tbh.

5 also, i was suprised to see you play on my server, and both my daoc servers, and was in eve at the same time as me, and on my wow server, played UO with me, and AO, and AC 1 and 2, and lotro, and potbs, and all the others over the years. so you know my playstyle down to a tee so you can comment on it with some authority

so ill state this very simply for your dim intellect

PROVE to me that there is NOTHING WRONG with your fotm class
or
stfu

your such a legend in your own lunchtime, this should prove amazingly easy , no ?

I can go through this thread alone and pick out every comment you make towards the BW if you feel it will help me prove my point ?I cant really be arsed but I will if you want me to.

I never been banned from FH.

I am a good player, you can think I'm shit if it helps you, but regardless it doesnt matter to me, I know I'm a good player and the people I play with know it also so never mind. I also never came here with no I am better than you attitude, I just lol at your cry baby whining about BW, you make an assumption about me and I put you right.

I dont need to be on your server, or any game you played to know your playstyle, probably something like _press a few buttons expecting to win, you lose, you cry OP, you take it to the forums_

Prove to you ? How can I do that ? In your tiny little broken mind the BW is OP, nothing I say or show you or anyone else for that matter will make you look further than your nooby destro's chars ass facedown in the dirt from a BW.

Must be OP
I'm not young either, not even close.

 

[aika]

I've seen ignite hit for 500.
I've seen Detonate hit for 900.
That is 1400+ damage from 1 tick of two dots. Continue this for 9 seconds, once every 3 seconds and that is pretty nice damage over time (and thats before you have applied slowboil, boiling blood, WH) meanwhile you are also free to cast additional spells, such as the uber 1400 damage 3s cast bolts, or the underpowered whithering heat.

Of course it's easy to say you can heal through BW dots without playing with fire. Fair enough since absoloutly no bw spec immolation so wouldn't have pwf right?

After PwF my spec 3s cast heal does 450 or so. I could waste a global cooldown and use Hex removal, but on it's 5s cooldown and the fact it only removes the last hex applied, chances are i'd end up removing Slow boil or hell if I'm unlucky fire cage.

As i've said previously, I don't think they are overpowered, I think the DoT mechanic in this game as a whole needs revamping.
Insta cast stackable dots, on the same damage table as all other debuffs Vs Cure debuff that only removes the last applied, and has a 5s cooldown.

But to deny that BW can put out insane amounts of damage is a little one sided.




Both debuff the enemy, both inflict damage when the debuff wears off. Stack 3x vs 20s cooldown. I'm not quite sure where you're going with this one, but it's one of the better sources for the comparisons rather than just OMG BW ARE OP or NO WE'RE NOT WE ARE BALANANANACED.

boiling blood is the mirror of word of pain, Slow Boil is a lvl 35 ability.
really just read the abilities each class has, its easily found on wardb, then draw conclusions or post.

 

[Tiani]

I've seen ignite hit for 500.
I've seen Detonate hit for 900.
That is 1400+ damage from 1 tick of two dots. Continue this for 9 seconds, once every 3 seconds and that is pretty nice damage over time (and thats before you have applied slowboil, boiling blood, WH) meanwhile you are also free to cast additional spells, such as the uber 1400 damage 3s cast bolts, or the underpowered whithering heat.

Of course it's easy to say you can heal through BW dots without playing with fire. Fair enough since absoloutly no bw spec immolation so wouldn't have pwf right?

After PwF my spec 3s cast heal does 450 or so. I could waste a global cooldown and use Hex removal, but on it's 5s cooldown and the fact it only removes the last hex applied, chances are i'd end up removing Slow boil or hell if I'm unlucky fire cage.

As i've said previously, I don't think they are overpowered, I think the DoT mechanic in this game as a whole needs revamping.
Insta cast stackable dots, on the same damage table as all other debuffs Vs Cure debuff that only removes the last applied, and has a 5s cooldown.

But to deny that BW can put out insane amounts of damage is a little one sided.




Both debuff the enemy, both inflict damage when the debuff wears off. Stack 3x vs 20s cooldown. I'm not quite sure where you're going with this one, but it's one of the better sources for the comparisons rather than just OMG BW ARE OP or NO WE'RE NOT WE ARE BALANANANACED.

I never said they cant put out damage, its just not as rose tinted as everyone seems to think it is. You dont just dump all your dots on everyone sit back and watch them fall over.

And you can heal through BW dots, a BW cant load all his dots up on numerous people, they have a cooldown, he can dot up one person and put Ignite on everyone else but this aint gonna kill them, even with Detonate proccing it is easily healed through, so one guy is dead ? so what. You cant expect to keep everyone up all the time with no problem.

 

[Soazak]

boiling blood is the mirror of word of pain, Slow Boil is a lvl 35 ability.
really just read the abilities each class has, its easily found on wardb, then draw conclusions or post.

Boiling blood is a dot.
Word of pain is not.



Both Word of Pain, and Slow boil do delayed damage, both 10 seconds afer they are applied. That imo is comparable, a lot more comparable than a 15s damage over time.

The only difference in the two spells, is that one has a 20s cooldown, and the other needs to be applied 3x to be as effective.

 

[Soazak]

I never said they cant put out damage, its just not as rose tinted as everyone seems to think it is. You dont just dump all your dots on everyone sit back and watch them fall over.

And you can heal through BW dots, a BW cant load all his dots up on numerous people, they have a cooldown, he can dot up one person and put Ignite on everyone else but this aint gonna kill them, even with Detonate proccing it is easily healed through, so one guy is dead ? so what. You cant expect to keep everyone up all the time with no problem.

I agree with you on that, but once all the dots are stacked on one person it is impossible to remove them, and fairly difficult to heal through them even if they are taking no other damage.


Edit: to clarify, as i've said previously I don't think BW are overpowered, I just think the dot mechanic (for both sorcs and BW) in this game was poorly designed. More specifically the ability to cure dots, and them stacking with the same spell from a second player.

 

[Tiani]

well dots from players should stack, why wouldnt they ? direct damage from 2 sources stack, or are you saying that sorc A nukes and sorc B nukes but only Sorc A's damage should count ?

Again I just dont think a healer should be able to keep someone up indefinately from masses of damage

 

[Septima]

Can someone fix the title of this thread? It's somehow ... inacurate?

 

[aika]

well dots from players should stack, why wouldnt they ? direct damage from 2 sources stack, or are you saying that sorc A nukes and sorc B nukes but only Sorc A's damage should count ?

Again I just dont think a healer should be able to keep someone up indefinately from masses of damage

dots from the same type shouldnt stack, simply because they are "fire and forget" and the current situation with dots stacking ticking at 100 combustion makes them very overpowered out of scale of healing power.

 

[pikeh]

Can someone fix the title of this thread? It's somehow ... inacurate?

If we changed the title of threads that ended up arguing about BW balance, every single thread on this forum would be 'BW Balance Discussion'

 

[Tiani]

dots from the same type shouldnt stack, simply because they are "fire and forget" and the current situation with dots stacking ticking at 100 combustion makes them very overpowered out of scale of healing power.

but its slow damage over a long period of time. So its not ok for 2 ignites to hit a player at the same time for a culmination of 1k damage but 2 direct nukes for 1.4k+ from 2 different players is perfectly fine ?

I dont get this logic.

 

[Soazak]

but its slow damage over a long period of time. So its not ok for 2 ignites to hit a player at the same time for a culmination of 1k damage but 2 direct nukes for 1.4k+ from 2 different players is perfectly fine ?

I dont get this logic.

Because while the 2 ignites are on the player, you can either run away avoiding harm(but still doing damage) or cast the same 1.4k damage spell to further increase damage. If they were all channeled like WH I wouldn't mind them stacking, but the ability to drop enough dots on someone then run behind the guards in Serps pass to sit and wait for them to die is a little unfair.


Whether it is BW or Sorcs, to do dot damage you only have to be in range while the button is pressed, for Doombolt/Fireball you have to stay in range for the full duration of the cast.

As Akia said, it's fire and forget.

 

[aika]

but its slow damage over a long period of time. So its not ok for 2 ignites to hit a player at the same time for a culmination of 1k damage but 2 direct nukes for 1.4k+ from 2 different players is perfectly fine ?

I dont get this logic.

its not slow damage.
to anyone that played daoc before stacking dots feel wrong xD

 

[Tiani]

it IS slow damage, dots proc their damage every 3 seconds (well the BW dots anyway) in MMO terms 3 seconds is fucking massive so imo 2 dots from different places of the same nature hitting a target once each every 3 seconds is not overpowered, regardless of where I am in relation to my target, and as mentioned before the DoT mobility playstyle incur's a lot more combustion backlashes than a straight up nuker build.

Because while the 2 ignites are on the player, you can either run away avoiding harm(but still doing damage) or cast the same 1.4k damage spell to further increase damage. If they were all channeled like WH I wouldn't mind them stacking, but the ability to drop enough dots on someone then run behind the guards in Serps pass to sit and wait for them to die is a little unfair./quote]

if they are dying then bad teamplay imo. Sure if 3 BW stack all their dots on one target he is probably going to die, but 2 marauders on one target is ensured death, or 2 sorcs, or two of anything.

Either way I dont think they will change dots stacking because its working as intended and I cant see why it would work any other way.

 

[Soazak]

it IS slow damage, dots proc their damage every 3 seconds (well the BW dots anyway) in MMO terms 3 seconds is fucking massive so imo 2 dots from different places of the same nature hitting a target once each every 3 seconds is not overpowered, regardless of where I am in relation to my target, and as mentioned before the DoT mobility playstyle incur's a lot more combustion backlashes than a straight up nuker build.

Because while the 2 ignites are on the player, you can either run away avoiding harm(but still doing damage) or cast the same 1.4k damage spell to further increase damage. If they were all channeled like WH I wouldn't mind them stacking, but the ability to drop enough dots on someone then run behind the guards in Serps pass to sit and wait for them to die is a little unfair.

if they are dying then bad teamplay imo. Sure if 3 BW stack all their dots on one target he is probably going to die, but 2 marauders on one target is ensured death, or 2 sorcs, or two of anything.

Either way I dont think they will change dots stacking because its working as intended and I cant see why it would work any other way.

Yes, but in those instances the marauder/agony sorc/incineration BW etc has to stay in range, and therefore in danger, you can kill the BW and stop him casting fireball, but you cant stop the dot damage since they are fire and forget. You fail to see that yes, the 3 BW can drop all their dots on 1 person and instagib him, but while he is dieing, they are free to focus fire on the second, and third person etc.

Perhaps labelling it subjective like slow/fast/high/low isnt the best way...

And 3s delays between ticks can be considered fast damage, perhaps not spike (until you cast the fireball/Nova/Scintilating energy ontop) but they do a lot of damage at 100% combustion, combine ignite/bb/detonate and they will outdamage fireball (3-4.5s global cooldowns v 3s static).

 

[Tiani]

Yes, but in those instances the marauder/agony sorc/incineration BW etc has to stay in range, and therefore in danger, you can kill the BW and stop him casting fireball, but you cant stop the dot damage since they are fire and forget. You fail to see that yes, the 3 BW can drop all their dots on 1 person and instagib him, but while he is dieing, they are free to focus fire on the second, and third person etc.

Perhaps labelling it subjective like slow/fast/high/low isnt the best way...

And 3s delays between ticks can be considered fast damage, perhaps not spike (until you cast the fireball/Nova/Scintilating energy ontop) but they do a lot of damage at 100% combustion, combine ignite/bb/detonate and they will outdamage fireball (3-4.5s global cooldowns v 3s static).

over time sure, but like I said pvp is all about bursting people down before their healers catch up.

I am free to cast on everyone else ? Again this is bad group play. I am a BW according to 90% of destruction I am the most overpowered thing since wow Warlocks, surely I should be everyone's number 1 target ? I shouldnt be 'free' to do anything

you can kill the BW and stop him casting fireball, but you cant stop the dot damage since they are fire and forget

Yes but again the dot damage is not going to kill him or instagib him and your healers have a fair amount of time to react to this as opposed to half his health going out of knowhere

These discussions are silly for numerous reasons. Mostly because the things being discussed are all situational.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Funny how a Magus nerf thread ends up being a slanging match between people arguing over BW & Sorc and which may or may not need nerfed the most or not at all.

 

[scorge]

reduce BW/SORC dot damage and give it to Magus/engineers

 

[Septima]

Magus and engineers have some nice utility to compensate their lack of dps. It's not like every class on this game should be doing dps. Would be huge whinning if a black orc or a IB would have the dp's or a sorc/BW ....

Each class its role.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Magus DPS is sub par vs any class in any situation and in any combination of group setup. We have cloth for armour and are very squishy. Low survivability is usually associated with high DPS and in the case of the Magus it is very much not the situation.

As people say elsewhere - Magus is free RP.

EDIT - oh and the so-called utility is very dependant on a specific type of group setup to be effective.

 

[Talivar]

I admit the way bw apply the damage through dots is what gives them a big advantage, but if u nerf that then right after it you will have a shift into sorcs favour because aoe and direct damage is where sorcs are far better. Ppl will say thats rubbish but i have a bw and trust me i cant hit anywhere near the damage with aoe or dd that even lv sorcs do. SO either boost sorcs dots or nerf bw dots and boost there aoe and ddo or nerf bw dots and nerf sorc dd and aoe. Just nerfing bw dots would only create another imbalance.

 

[Jupitus]

I admit the way bw apply the damage through dots is what gives them a big advantage, but if u nerf that then right after it you will have a shift into sorcs favour because aoe and direct damage is where sorcs are far better. Ppl will say thats rubbish but i have a bw and trust me i cant hit anywhere near the damage with aoe or dd that even lv sorcs do. SO either boost sorcs dots or nerf bw dots and boost there aoe and ddo or nerf bw dots and nerf sorc dd and aoe. Just nerfing bw dots would only create another imbalance.

This should be in another thread - this one goes back ON topic or is closed.

 

[Iorlas]

i aint said nuffin:england:
:freddyfm:

 

[Muylaetrix]

i aint said nuffin:england:
:freddyfm:

Ceterum autem censeo, magister solex esse delendam

there, you can add that to your signature

 

[Nate]

Can't say I've noticed a big difference, thats if the patch has been applied. Then again I haven't done big rvr where I've been able to see the difference recently.

 

[Tallen]

i aint said nuffin:england:
:freddyfm:

Thats a double negative

 

[Iorlas]

Thats a double negative

and it's nothing like the way i talk in real life
Cornish= ooow arrrrr me'ansome,...we don't worry about grammer and stuff hard job to understand eachother anyway.

A sheep is for life not just the weekend