Magnus, Nic, a question

[Aiteal]

So Nic
I'm doing as you advised, contacting the Billing Support Team
Not the most user-friendly experience I've had in a while
No direct email address, and the closest match to my problem on the drop down list was an option for subscription renewal

I'm curious as to what the answer will be, as you have given me no clue as to GoA's policy of holding an individual's credit card information.

If there is a corporate policy on this I don't see why you cannot share this information with your customers, unless ofc, your company believes that stonewalling and cobwebbing is the best approach on this matter.

Can you tell I'm not pleased?

 

[Raven]

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

I see the "equal or better service" was a load of horse shit.

Oh well, it takes a company as utterly worthless as GOA to kill one of the best things to happen to the MMO scene in years (in Europe) with relative ease, they don't even seem to care. It could be seen as they have bitten off far more than they can chew and want to get rid of it so that they can go back to those crappy flash games.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Have to say Nic et al - while it isnt your fault, due to the fact your company can't even make a simple, clear public statement about something as fundamental as how they will use/hold credit card numbers (in this age of information theft, ID fraud, false billing etc) i have no intention of ever giving you my card details, and am thanking my lucky stars i live less than a mile from a game store so can just buy game cards with ease.

 

[griralith]

I talked with my bank advisor about it,and he wasnt happy.... its so very illegal according to Danish law. Anyway, he was kind enough to set it up so any payment request from Goa/France telecom will be blocked.... Goa go fuck yourselves...

 

[Aiteal]

So yeah
I work for an IT company based in the UK (but French owned )
And half the guys in my office are programmers etc, the other half are IT security consultants, penetration testers (or Haxxorzz as they like to be known ) etc.

So I spoke with their manager this morning regarding the storing of personal details on computer systems.

He tells me that under the data protection act, a non-government organisation that stores your personal info must
a) Prove that they have a reason to do so
b) Ensure that it is secure
and most importantly
c) Remove you details if you ask them to do so (Government agencies can dispute this, but private commercial enterprises cannot)

So if you ask GoA to remove your details and they do not, they are in breech of the UK's data protection act.

 

[taB]

Nic

I would like you to pm me the address of your billing department so I may write to them.

Thanks.

 

[AngelHeal]

So yeah
I work for an IT company based in the UK (but French owned )
And half the guys in my office are programmers etc, the other half are IT security consultants, penetration testers (or Haxxorzz as they like to be known ) etc.

So I spoke with their manager this morning regarding the storing of personal details on computer systems.

He tells me that under the data protection act, a non-government organisation that stores your personal info must
a) Prove that they have a reason to do so
b) Ensure that it is secure
and most importantly
c) Remove you details if you ask them to do so (Government agencies can dispute this, but private commercial enterprises cannot)

So if you ask GoA to remove your details and they do not, they are in breech of the UK's data protection act.

can u repeat that please, and now say u work for a dutch company

 

[Reza]

From the "General Terms of Subscription" :


9 - Securing and protecting your personal data

Payment transactions are secured through the payment system provided by the company BIBIT. This system uses SSL encryption technology (SECURE SOCKETS LAYER).

The transaction is made according to the security standards of the banking sector.

The banking information that you provide will be used solely for the purposes of processing and billing your subscription.

Other information that you provide upon registering for your Account may be used for the exclusive purposes of managing your subscription and providing information in relation with the WAR game and/or GOA.

In accordance with French Law no. 78-17 of 6 January 1978, related to information technology, data files, and civil liberties, at any time, you have a right to access, correct, and oppose personal data pertaining to you. To exercise this right, write to France Télécom / DC – GOA / service clients / 48 rue Camille Desmoulins - 92791 Issy les Moulineaux Cedex 9 / France, including a photocopy of your identity card and indicating your surname, first name, address, CD key, and the login information for your Account (there is no need to provide your password).


-------------------------------------------------------

From the EULA:


9. Data protection

We consider it necessary to offer to subscribers and visitors to the site (hereinafter "Users") full information regarding the manner in which We collect and use the information obtained on the Warhammer website accessible at the address Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning (hereinafter the "Site"). That disclosure is intended to enable Users to provide information relating to themselves with full awareness and security.

For such purpose, and in order to comply with its obligations in France under laws and regulations, the Site has been reported to the national "Computers and Civil Liberties" commission in order to comply with the provisions of French law No. 78-17 dated 6 January 1978. The Publisher undertakes, in all countries where legislation and regulations of this kind are applicable, to secure compliance with the provisions protecting privacy and personal data.

The personal data are collected first in order to enable Us better to know Users and serve them, in particular as regards the provision of services associated with the Game and its Expansions. We retain and store in particular the data supplied when your Account is opened, with the exception of your bank details, which are held by another company to guarantee complete confidentiality.

In this respect, We undertake that :
(i) no information will be collected without the Users' knowledge;
(ii) no personal information will be used otherwise than as stated.

When such personal data are requested and collected on the Site, the Users are reminded of the manner in which they may have access to, correct or remove such information, and the person with whom that right of access, correction or removal may be exercised. The Publisher checks, before allowing anyone access to those personal data, the identity of the person requesting it.

The information collected by the Publisher regarding the Users can be obtained in various ways, including in particular, but not only, through the Site. In addition, in some cases, the Site may transmit programs for the collection of personal information (cookies, capture of environmental variables, management of auditing files and opening of the directory of cached Internet temporary files), recorded on the User's computer, allowing him or her to be recognized when visiting the Site. Upon each creation and transmission of such cookies containing personal information, a choice to accept or refuse that transmission of cookies will be offered. In addition, Users will be informed that he or she may also refuse all cookies or choose case by case, by changing the parameters of the browser used.

We do not rent, sell, or share personal information about you with other people or nonaffiliated companies except to provide products or services you've requested, when we have your permission, or under the following circumstances:
- We provide the information to trading partners (i) for purposes of operating the Game and its Expansions or (ii) for marketing purposes, in order to enable us to communicate with you about offers from the Publisher and our marketing partners. However, these companies do not have any independent right to share this information.
- We respond to court orders, or legal process, or to establish or exercise our legal rights or defend against legal claims;
- We believe it is necessary to share information in order to investigate, prevent, or take action regarding illegal activities, suspected fraud, situations involving potential threats to the physical safety of any person, violations of the Player Code of Conduct, or as otherwise required by law.
- Furthermore, if you request any technical support, you consent to our obtaining remote access to the computer on which the Game and its Expansions are installed, to enable Us to carry out any necessary interventions. You agree that We may communicate with you via e-mail and any similar method for any purpose relating to the Game and its Expansions, the Software and any other services or software that We may offer in the future.
- We transfer information about you if the Publisher is acquired by or merged with another company. In this event, the Publisher will notify you before information about you is transferred and becomes subject to a different privacy policy.

By accepting this EUALA, you expressly permit the Publisher to use the information provided to it, and to forward it to its subsidiaries and licensees, companies affiliated to its group, and trading partners. At the time of each collection of information, We will ask you to confirm your consent to use of the information so collected, and remind you of your rights under the applicable legislation.
In all cases, you will be given an opportunity to grant the Publisher permission to make limited use of the data collected, by (I) prohibiting the Publisher from forwarding those personal data to other companies not affiliated to France Télécom group, or (II) prohibiting the Publisher from using those data for promotional purposes (sending of advertising, direct mail, etc.).

Accordingly to the the Data Protection Act No. 78-17 of 6 January 1978, you benefit from an access, modification and rectification right of the personal information given to the Publisher when using the service. To do so, you only have to write to France Télécom / DC - GOA / Warhammer Client Support / 48 rue Camille Desmoulins / 92791 Issy-les-Moulineaux Cedex 9 / France, adding a copy of your identification card and the CD-Key that appear in the manual of the Game and its Expansions and indicating your name, first name and address.

 

[Aiteal]

32 hours later
I still don't even have an acknowledgement to say they recieved an enquiry from me.

Given that I've had previous experience of right-now
I wasn't expecting a resolution within a day

But the common curtesy of an acknowledgement would be nice.

 

[Mey]

Why do I have to send them a photocopy of my ID to get them to remove my billing details. That seems like total overkill.

 

[Raven]

You don't. A letter will suffice, by law. If they don't remove them after a letter then report them for breach of the data protection act.

Regardless of what that comedy script of a contract says.

 

[taB]

Still heard nothing.

What a pile of wank.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

I suggest all involved contact GoA via recorded mail, with a copy of the letter sent to the Information Commissioners Office (or whatever the equivalent is in their country), setting a clear and reasonable deadline for resolution of the issue.

Don't threaten - just outline your rights under UK law and state that any further use of your card details will be reported immediately to the bank as fraud. I'd even say that copying your bank in on the letter is worth it too. That way it's clearly on record that if GoA do use your card again it's a fraudulent transaction.

Have to say they've made yet another PR disaster out of something a simple apology and refunds all around could have easily fixed.

Edit:Also worth mentioning in the letter that under UK law (irrespective of if they are based here) the maximum fine (which is usually sought should this go to legal recourse) is £5000 per offense. With definitely several dozen violations to date confirmed, let alone the possibility of hundreds as yet undetected that should get their attention.

 

[griralith]

this is the response i got, after trying to get hold of the so called customer support...

Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning, Ticket ref: #360626
--

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting us in relation to your issue.

The subscription automatic renewal function was made active on all accounts on the 14th of November on which date an email was sent to you informing you of this action.

This action was taken to improve our subscription service as you will not have to renew your subscription period manually.
You will now be able to avoid disruption to your game access between subscription periods. While we apologise there may be some confusion around the implementation of this policy this was a necessary action to improve our service to you.

This policy can be found in the 2nd article of our General terms of Subscription which has been included since the release of WAR which states:

Section 2
“For payment through the banking system, your subscription will be renewed automatically starting on the anniversary date of your subscription period for durations identical to the subscription duration that you chose.”

Additional information can be also read here:

Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning
Also we are unfortunately unable to process your refund request as your subscription period has already started.

Section 6
“Each subscription period that has begun will be billed and non-refundable, whether in full or in part. Similarly, failure to use your subscription during a subscription period does not give you the right to any refund.”

In order to cancel your next automatic renewal please log into your account at Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning
-Click on My profile
-Click on the “Terminate your subscription” Tab at the bottom of the page.
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
-----------------------------------------------
Warhammer Online European Billing Support

In addition to this, the email sent to you informing you of the automatic renewal update was sent in order to give you adequate time in order to cancel your subscription if necessary.

---------------------------------

When i mailed back, that i already did all the mentionedand before the right dates, i never got any answer back... GOA is a bunch of thieving c**** that tries to silence every issue to death....

It wont happen this time, this will turn to the worst shit storm very soon if nothing is changed...

 

[ford prefect]

this is the response i got, after trying to get hold of the so called customer support...

...

Yes I have four copies of that email, helpful isn't it?

 

[Aiteal]

Just got mine

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting us in relation to your query.

We would like to assure you that your case is currently under our investigation, and you should receive an update soon.

Regards,
-----------------------------------------------
Warhammer Online European Billing Support

So 44 hours for an automated response that would take 1 minute to sort with Funcom's system.

 

[Calaen]

Just got mine



So 44 hours for an automated response that would take 1 minute to sort with Funcom's system.

Go play aoc then

 

[Aiteal]

Go play aoc then

I do

 

[Runoff]

Send a well written letter to a editor of Theregister.co.uk or Inquirer.net they pick up on these Tech storys quite well and im sure it deserves a article.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Mr. Jacobs has logged onto the games networking website at least twice and posted on one forum within it since i sent him the polite, enquiring and fact-based e-mail asking about this situation with subscriptions.

I've not had a reply, but my mail has been flagged as "read". I'm very dissapointed since it was about as polite and non-heavy-handed as can be. Just a brief outline of the situation, and a simple request either to look into it, or have someone else do so.

Apparently their European partner for their brand-spanking new flagship product using debit and credit cards without the owners consent is not worthy of a reply. Either that or it's such a PR nightmare he took one look at it and went "No way am i getting involved". One of the Two, take your pick.

Oh and before any smart-arse says "you'd have just posted his reply here which is why he didnt reply", one of the rules of said networking site is that posting an e-mail on any public forum from any member without their permission gets you banned

 

[Aiteal]

6 days and counting
No reponse

I'd like to thank you Nic for pointing me in the general direction of such an efficient and dedicated team.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

6 days and counting
No reponse

I'd like to thank you Nic for pointing me in the general direction of such an efficient and dedicated team.

The CM's have been gagged on this. I think we all understand by now that whatever the real cause, Magnus and Nic have been told to remain silent about it, which speaks volumes for GoA's attitude to their customers.

The more i re-read Nic & Magnus's statements on this the more it looks like a deliberate revenue generation exercise. Who was it that said "Silence is an answer."?

Nice to see GoA has changed it's ways /Cough.

 

[Aiteal]

In fairness to Nic he did PM me and say that he was looking into it
Can't be easy trying to be a community manager with a ball gag and one hand tied behind his back.


But yeah
Credit crunch, less disposible income, and the during the most critical period of an MMO's life and GoA seem to think it's a good time to display subpar service.

 

[Aiteal]

8 days
No response other than an automated reply
Which took 2 days

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

GoA Customer Support:

http://www.doorfingerprotector.com/images/FireDoorLeaflet_Web_v22.gif