Macintyre Investigates

[Skyler]

Anyone else see this ??

I thought it was pretty fucked tbh, and I cant believe how stupid the government/police are over this whole issue....

For those who didnt see it.. Macintyre went undercover to get himself mugged.

He had a laptop in a bag and a state of the art nokia phone, both equipped with tracking devices...


On the third night of trying to get mugged his phone got nicked by about 10 black guys, and they legged it. Seconds later one of them approached him in the street asking if he wanted his phone back, and said he could get it back for 10quid. The guy said that it was his cousin that nicked the phone, and he could get it back. So they journeyed off into an estate (Macintyre was also equipped with stab proof vests and communications system and a secret camera). They went up on a small balcony thing, and the black guy started chatting about what phone it was. Macintyre said it was rather expensive, so the black guy then demanded 20 quid. Macintyre handed it over and the guy went off to his "cousins" house to get it back, about 10mins later, he returns and asks for 40quid instead, because his cousin is selling it onto someone allready. They stood chatting for another 10mins or so before Macintyre decided to give him more money, and off he went again. Most of what the guy said about mugging was that it was "bad" and he tells his cousin not to do it etc, and that he'd never do it himself.
Anyway the guy returns without the phone again, and says they have to go and meet his cousin a little way away, so they go. They end up waiting near a wall around another part of an estate. They chat for about 15minutes about things and get quite friendly. Then all of a sudden the black guy pulls a 7" knife and threatens to stab Macintyre unless he hands over his bag...

Pretty fucked eh ?

Near the end of the programme while filming openly, the same guy approached the crew asking why they were filming and stuff. Macintyre ID's him and starts asking why he mugged him etc. and the guy starts saying "nononono mate that was my cousin, he looks just like me" etc. Unbelievable that he tries the same thing over :/

Then after that a gang of black youths try and steal the entire crews cameras. They chased the crew back to their van, and then when they tried to drive off, they pushed over big arsed bins infront of the van to stop them getting away etc. Eventually they legged it...


That is about it, but you really have to see it to get the full feeling of it...

I cant believe how fucked up some people are, and I cant believe how the police arent stopping this... Its totally shagged tbh...

Around 400 muggings a day in London.

An awful lot of the facts and suspect lists point towards the great majority of people mugging like this are black.

Takes the total biscuit


Anyway theres my post...

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I can't express my anger to your ignorant opinions. It's people like you that I genuinely *hate*. The colour of someone's skin is totally irrellevant: it's like saying "85% of all muggings are done by people with brown eyes!!1111" It's a physical characteristic, it does not define behaviours. Fuck off and die. In fact, I'm going to report this to a moderator right now because of your stupidity.

 

[Moving Target]

lol...shame I missed it

 

[Skyler]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk
I can't express my anger to your ignorant opinions. It's people like you that I genuinely *hate*. The colour of someone's skin is totally irrellevant: it's like saying "85% of all muggings are done by people with brown eyes!!1111" It's a physical characteristic, it does not define behaviours. Fuck off and die. In fact, I'm going to report this to a moderator right now because of your stupidity.

You live here and then try saying that..

I am not racist, just because I comment openly I deserve to "fuck off and die" ?

I cant believe you can say that, you have no idea how bad the problem is in London. Try reading our local newspaper, every day there are 5-10 more mugging reports, every one is commited by a black person. That isnt being racist, that is just factual information.

I didnt say "all black people do muggings and no one else"
I said the majority of suspects in mugging cases are usually black.

That isnt racist its the truth.

Its a shame the government and police forces cant admit it openly, due to pressure from black community leaders.

Why is it when a black person is stabbed by white kids its all over the news constantly as a racist attack? and when a white person is killed by black youths no one really even bats an eyelid ?

You cant say thats how it should be ?


I am in great respect of the black people that came to this country originally, and had to deal with shedloads of racism, I respect those people totally, because I couldnt of handled it.
But now I am a victim of racism, and I'm not allowed to speak out about it ?

Surely thats a bit fucked too ?

The whole street crime thing should be publicised and shown to everyone in the country, and people should realise what its like.

The fact Macintyre himself, despite wearing stab proof vests, having security, while expecting to get mugged, and while it wasnt even his stuff... Can still get as scared as he was after that bloke pulled a knife on him, might go to show you some part of how horrible it is what these fucks do...

Think of how youd feel if someone stole your personal belongs, while threatening to stab you, and then them not even caring?

As I said above, live here, suffer and then see how you think.

 

[Ono]

Brixton sux ass.

 

[Wilier]

I watched it, and TBH, Im glad Im a bumpkin where the worst that could happen is a pig may run off with your hay bale!!

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by Skyler


You live here and then try saying that..

I am not racist, just because I comment openly I deserve to "fuck off and die" ?

I cant believe you can say that, you have no idea how bad the problem is in London. Try reading our local newspaper, every day there are 5-10 more mugging reports, every one is commited by a black person. That isnt being racist, that is just factual information.

No, I obviously have no idea of the problem in London. I mean, I've only been living here ALL MY FUCKING LIFE. Shut up, stop making assumptions. Factual information it may be (doubtful, you know what media are like, particularly newspapers who will ALWAYS jump on the scaremongering band wagon when someone with different colour skin is involved - do you read the Mail by any chance?), but it is irrelevant. I have 8 fingers. Factual, but bears no relevance to this argument, does it?

I didnt say "all black people do muggings and no one else"
I said the majority of suspects in mugging cases are usually black.

That isnt racist its the truth.

Ahh yes, you know the details of the mugger in every mugging case ever, even the unsolved ones. I forget these things!

The fact Macintyre himself, despite wearing stab proof vests, having security, while expecting to get mugged, and while it wasnt even his stuff... Can still get as scared as he was after that bloke pulled a knife on him, might go to show you some part of how horrible it is what these fucks do...

You claim not to be racist, then build up your argument around the majority of muggings as being commited by "black" people... and then you call them "these fucks"!?! Christ almighty. I was nearly mugged once too you know, I do know how scary it is. I know how horrible it is.

As I said above, live here, suffer and then see how you think.

I live in and around London, and I have done all my life, like I said. In fact, I live in one of the most culturally diverse areas of the country. Shut up. You're wrong. Again.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk
I have 8 fingers. Factual, but bears no relevance to this argument, does it?

Does that mean you're missing 2? Or are you just one of those people that don't class thumbs as fingers? :uhoh:

 

[Skyler]

I dont read the mail or any other tabloid. I get the information from the daily local newspapers we have here, who post much less biased information about the local community. I've spoken to police officers about it, and I have been told that there is a majority of blacks doing the mugging.

You say youve almost been mugged, try actually being mugged instead, several times, by the same sect of people. Then try having most of your friends mugged by the same people, and then tell me that I'm racist..

There must clearly be reasons why people mug people.

Now lets see, in Newcastle the main poverty areas are all white areas, nearly all muggings in newcastle are commited by white people.

In London there are a lot of blacks and whites and asians, in poorer areas. There is also a majority of muggings by blacks to go with that ?

Mugging is mainly caused by lack of money, and being poor. Wether you are black/white/asian/purple/pink/green etc. you may still be a mugger, its mainly based on how poor you are. My saying that the majority of muggings are commited by blacks kinda suggests that there is a problem in society in London regarding black people and discrimination... This is true.

They dont wake up and look in the mirror and decide to mug because they are black ? Not likely..

More likely to wake up and due to having no food to eat maybe, or perhaps not having a mobile phone, enough money for drugs, or whatever other reason they then decide to mug people..

But there is still a majority of blacks commiting the crimes and people need to recognise it so we can stop them.

If I'm wrong I'd apologise of course, but as it goes in London, the facts are there somewhere.

I now CBA to argue who mugs the most in London, all I want is the facts to be admitted without racial bias, either way. I then want the problem to be sorted..

Also this thread was mainly so I could see other peoples views on what happened in the program...

 

[Wazzerphuk]

A few points:

- Indeed, there is a very strong link between underprivelaged areas and people with mugging. This is well known. To say such swooping statements as "the great majority of people mugging like this are black" inferrs more than a hint of racism, no? You go on to explain some very basic social causes as to why crimes of this nature occur, but only when your (what can easily deemed to be) offensive statements are challenged do you bring it out. Can anyone spot the mistake?
- Local newspapers are very poor. Do not trust them. Trust them for news of upcoming events, and council reports, as they're actually given proper information regarding these. When it comes to crime, local newspapers get as much information as Public Joe.

I've spoken to police officers about it, and I have been told that there is a majority of blacks doing the mugging.

- Ahh yes, that'll be the same police force that is known for racism, and has been under continious scrutiny due to racist opinions for years and years and years. If you want to get any PROPER information that has a smaller chance of being utterly biased, speak to all the parties involved. It seems you're only hearing one side of the story because it's the side you want to hear.
- To state that mugging is mainly caused by how poor you are, again only shows your ignorance on social matters: I suggest you do some serious reading about delinquency and crime before making even further swooping, broad comments like that.

 

[xane]

There are several issues here that need to be considered.

(1) in London, whilst street crime may be disproportionately high when committed by blacks and asians, it is also disproportionately high when blacks and asians are the victims, the aspect of race/poverty works in both directions, you are more likely to be a mugger and you are more likely to be attacked by one.

Even black newspapers such as "The Voice" have appealed for the police to do something, even to the extent of reintroducing the stop and search criteria that were previously abandoned for being "too racist".

(2) the issue of who is considered "black". This is the age old problem faced by discrimitary organisations such as the aparthied regieme in South Africa and the Nation of Islam. A large amount of "black" people have a white parent or grandparent, etc, so to classify someone as "black" when they have one white and one black parent is incorrect, they are just as white as they are black, yet more often they are considered to be the latter.

The better choice is classification of culture, whether it is the culture people have be born into, the one they live in, or the one they "adopt", and indeed there is a high level of violence amongst, say, Jamacians, a majority will be black, but not all blacks are Jamacians.

Ahh yes, you know the details of the mugger in every mugging case ever, even the unsolved ones. I forget these things

Unlike burglary or car theft, you are much more likely to identify the skin colour of your assailant, therefore this often gets reported to the police, and sadly most are reported as "black", however see my point (2) above.

The overall problem is that less than 10% of this country is "non-white", with such tiny proportions involved many statistics are fudged and distorted and it becomes all too easy to see the wrong side of things.

 

[old.osi-]

The fact Macintyre himself, despite wearing stab proof vests, having security, while expecting to get mugged, and while it wasnt even his stuff... Can still get as scared as he was after that bloke pulled a knife on him, might go to show you some part of how horrible it is what these fucks do...

I thought that really gave you an insight into how frightening it can be. Macintyre put himself in that position and was fully aware something could happen, but once it did happen I think that's when it hit home. The worst part of it for Macintyre was probably that he'd been talking to the guy and had gotten comfortable with him before the guy just, like, flipped. (Not to mention the size of the guy's knife.)

He was pretty fucking brave putting himself in that kind of position. There might have been his team hanging about for safety, but it's not like they could anything had he been attacked. It could have all been over in a second.

 

[Embattle]

Wazzerphuk you live in Teddington

 

[bids]

I don't normally get involved in these types of discussion as Bodhi's old signature applies, but:

Wazz - "To say such swooping statements as "the great majority of people mugging like this are black" inferrs more than a hint of racism, no?"

then: - "Ahh yes, that'll be the same police force that is known for racism, and has been under continious scrutiny due to racist opinions for years and years and years."

seems contradictory to me.

One of my brothers is a copper, and this 'swooping' statement about a racist Police Force certainly doesn't help either.

 

[PR.]

I saw this and it made me go cold when the guy pulled the knife. It was like twist in a murder mystery. I mean sure I thought ah he's just gonna take the £40 and run but nope he spends all that time talking to him only to pull a knife on him at 12:50am in the morning.

I would have been insterested to know whether the information was passed onto the police...

 

[Skyler]

Originally posted by osi-


I thought that really gave you an insight into how frightening it can be. Macintyre put himself in that position and was fully aware something could happen, but once it did happen I think that's when it hit home. The worst part of it for Macintyre was probably that he'd been talking to the guy and had gotten comfortable with him before the guy just, like, flipped. (Not to mention the size of the guy's knife.)

He was pretty fucking brave putting himself in that kind of position. There might have been his team hanging about for safety, but it's not like they could anything had he been attacked. It could have all been over in a second.

Aye, well I've had it in RL, with no cameras, security, or stab proof vest, and I can tell you it is even worse than how he reacted :/

Not a thing you want happening ever imo, youll never forget it

- I kinda wanted to email the producers of that series and say good job etc. but bbc site dont have a "programme" email addy for it :/


The police force may be partly racist, but everyone is racially biased, the police force walk on thin ice as far as racial statistics are concerned.

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by Skyler
but everyone is racially biased

I'm not.

 

[Sawtooth]

These are the hardest debates to have in a free society and its sad to see them degenerate into racist smears so quickly.

Just look at the furore over Blucket saying one word " Swamping" the other day when he was talking about the effect of large numbers of non-english speaking children arriving at a school. I think the media , the various interest groups as well as bandstanding politicians like Dianne Abbot can blow the significance of one word out of proportion with what was intended.

So I guess that in these forums this mutual antagonism can happen frequently?

I say calm down and discuss it seriously.

Saw

 

[(Shovel)]

Indeed.
The idea that ethnic minorities are a "problem" sickens me, but - unfortunately - the inability of anyone to talk about it properly means that in a decades time racial conflict will be.

If the fucking Conservative party could send it's BNP activists home for an afternoon and, put mildly, shut the fuck up, then people should just be able to trash it all out and walk away feeling they know everybodies fears.

Obviously not in parliament, the minority representation there is too small, but there should be an open forum on it.
I don't live in London, and I don't know the accuracy of anyone here's stats, but I do feel that if there isn't something done to get peoples fears in the open, and then something done to calm those fears properly and forever, statistics like that will begin to be blown up and up until we see actions like those in Burnley (and Leeds?) in more cities.

To go out on a limb, which is what people should be doing, I would suggest that the minorities themselves should ask themselves why they are here. I'm all for multiculturalism, it's great, but if you just want to live here to grab British benefits then it's cheating. If you come here to be British (whatever that may be in the 21st centuary) then fantastic. The knock on effect to those with fears would be confidence in the fact that everyone here wants to be here for the "right" reasons.
I'm not the one to define what the "right" reasons are though, I guess that's just something we'll know when we see it.

Here's hoping that made sense.

 

[Wij]

Wow. Tricky subject. The programme was excellent though.

I keep hearing statistics that a disproportionate amount of muggers in London are black and black community leaders don't seem to dispute them so I'd guess it's true. It also seems to be true that a disproportionate amount of the victims are black too although a white bloke wandering around the back streets of Brixton after midnight does seem like a really dumb thing to do. Sadly At the end of the day it's a problem for all races and refusing to acknowledge the facts isn't going to help anyone. If the police feel they can't arrest black youths then the black muggers will feel above the law.

In fact leaving aside the issue of colour there are many reasons why muggers feel above the law now. Many types of criminals. Was speaking to a bloke in a well-known chain of game-retailers yesterday telling me how he spent all his time trying to defeat shop-lifting gangs. Once he'd finally managed to catch them out they never got any punishment. They can always come up with an excuse about being bullied as a child, or being poor, or being abused. Noone can check these 'facts' and so they're back the next week.

Street-crime is out of control in many areas of the country and until we actually start arresting and punishing those who commit it, regardless of race, social-status, age or social-workers reports, it ain't gonna get no better

(oh and Shovel, I aint no Tory but if saying the BNP are Tory lackeys isn't a cheap smear then nothing is )

 

[bigbb]

Originally posted by sawtooth
Just look at the furore over Blucket saying one word " Swamping" the other day when he was talking about the effect of large numbers of non-english speaking children arriving at a school.

Exactly.

As I understand it the issue was concerned with teachers being unable to teach children in particularly ethnically diverse areas and the support and ability to be able to educate such individuals was being swamped. I may be wrong here, but either way this is surely talking in the interest of these people. Why we have to a "furore" is beyond me. The word may not have been best used, but we're not talking about wording here, we're talking about the syntagmtic message, which is just in its cause, surely?

Before any progressive or conclusive debate can even be approached we need to let Blunket and alike strike a voice, as are others, without worrying about political correctness.

 

[(Shovel)]

(oh and Shovel, I aint no Tory but if saying the BNP are Tory lackeys isn't a cheap smear then nothing is )

Yeah I know. I was referring to the somewhat unforgivable issue of the BNPs founder/leader's DAD being one of their senior MPs and heavily involved in the last election campaign. Edgar Griffiths? He's gone now, but it's a pretty bad situation for them to be in.

 

[Wij]

The Tory party does have a problem that some of it's members (the older ones mainly) have racist leanings but they have been trying to root them out. The Labour party often had a similar problem at local/council level. They just haven't let them get as high up in recent years. The Tory party has realised that it needs to do more on this issue. Leave em alone

*fluffle Torys*

 

[Skyler]

Well Blair has promised to curb streetcrime in London by september....

Lets hope something is done, it should of been done years ago but there ya go

I dont really care about immigrants, well I dont want to see people getting here simply because we offer a "better" quality of life. If they are in war/genuine refugees then let them in.

There are too many of them trying to get into the country tho, see on the news about the huge amounts of people using the channel tunnel for it, I cant believe there are so many wanting to come here....

It isnt that nice a place

 

[Recoil101]

I think the main problem here is actually community identity and not racism as such.

Let me quantify that statement, Stephen Lawrence and Damilola Taylor being murdered was a terrible terrible thing we all agree. However how the community around these people act shows us a couple of things.

If a black person is murdered by a white person there is general community outrage. It shows that the murdered persons community are closely knit.

If a white person is murdered by a black man, there is little community comeback, most white peope are going to tut and sigh and move on due to there upbringing.

If a Black person is murdered by a black person there is less of a fuss made generally

If a white person is murdered by a white person, you are likely not to hear about it much

Its all to do with people roots I think, if a black person is born and bred here in the UK, then he is british, no argument, however he is generally (not all the time) going to be brought up in an atmosphere of close community ties. A community that sticks together in that way will unite and bring to the fore something along these lines and no doubt someone will be accused of being racist, whatever the motive for the murder....

Its all about how we grow up, how we are brought up and the communities that we live in. To live in fear is a bad thing and it can make you generalise, unless you are a very very strong person. I went to college with the vast majority of my tutor group being asians, I know what being on the recieveing end of racism is like, it made me generalise for a while. If you will pardon the phrase there is no black and white in the area of racism, unless you are at the extreme edge of it ie a BNP member etc.

Skyler is generalising, but that is due to what he has seen or heard, a natural reaction. Who knows it may be true, it may not. Either way there is an element of fear in UK society today, that isnt helped by communities reactions, in fact it amplifies feelings.

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by Wij
a white bloke wandering around the back streets of Brixton after midnight does seem like a really dumb thing to do.

Whoo, my area!

Hold on, I'm white, I often get home later than midniht, arghhh, I'm being dumb every time I go out!

Seriously though, I've never been mugged by anyone black, I've had to intervene on the behalf of other's who are being mugged, in both cases the mugger was white, first time I actually got in a ton of trouble for breaking the guy's arm (he was trying to get a female friend of mine's ourse). Aparently if you have had martial arts training above a certain level you should know not to do bad things to people. Stupid police, heh

 

[Skyler]

You must have ginger hair scooba

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Currently it's red out of boredom.

Oooh, idea, pick a colour peeps, and I'll dye it

 

[throdgrain]

I really dont think skyler is being rascist if he says that most muggings are commited by black men in a certain area of london for example.
Its not a sin to say the word black you know. It is a colour thats all. If the fact is that most muggings in a given area are done by black people, then why get so excited Wij ?
I dont live in Brixton, (thank god) but most of the people who live there appear to be black, so it would only stand to reason that most of the muggers were also black ??
Wtf? Where is the racism ?

 

[Embattle]

Results of tests can always be skewed.