LPBs an idea! Please read server admin people :)

[Embattle]

but I'm sure you remember playing on modem, if you got in the same room as a Janet player pinging <20 your ping shot thru the roof, usually causing major lag or brief lock ups

No not really since I always managed a ping of 170 which came from a well setup modem and system config as well as the fact that the internet as a whole was under considerably less strain than what it currently is, I also used to pay per minute and often ran up quarterly bills of £500+ with one quarter hitting the magic £1000 mark.

I don't reckon modemers will truely see any advantage having there own server in regards to ping, the whole system, LINX, is under too much load on most evenings. Also remember that even with a server for HPW you'll still be channeled through the same network so will be unlikely to see any real improvement.

BTW those are download figures not in game figures since if you run netgraph you'll notice that on ISDN you get about 3K/sec through put, remember ping is latency not bandwidth.

One final point, if you want your own server because you want to cut down the challengers then fine but please don't use LPBs as an excuse......it really isn't as bad a problem as what some make out and is unlikely to resolve any real issues with your pings in this day and age.

[Edited by Embattle on 16-03-01 at 00:16]

 

[old.halo_jones]

This topic is brillant. I haven't read every word of every post, but when one guy(a HBP) complain's that LPBs see the opponents three seconds before him, I have to wonder what planet he's on.

The original post stated
''But you (LPBs) do spoil the game. I get an average ping of around 200, and against any pingers under 100 I aint got a chance. Im not writing this cos im crap''

I wonder! Within my clan we ahve several players who play over 200 in ping. They are not 'crap' either, and against LPBs they do stand I chance. I think you may need to reconsider just how NOT crap you actually are!

One person did mention the netcode. generally LPBs switch off client side prediction, this means their bullets go where they shoot them. HPBs leave it on, to this effect the bullet goes where their computer believes they would have been, and where the opponent may have been.

I am rather sick of this netcode. It is easily exploited. On many occasions I have ducked around a corner, or behind a box, only to find that 0.5 secs later, my health is getting reduced, becasue a client's computer THOUGHT I would still be standing there.

It also means that modemers can fire before they go round a corner, and the opponet will get hit, before they emerge. This can be funny, but does get boring after a while.

As for a diffrence of 100 in the ping, the fastest humna reaction are well beyond this , when one considers comp-to-eye-to-brian-to-spine-to-hand etc. The real problem does not exist with the ping difference, just how unstable and jumpy modem connexions actually are. The user does not see a true reflection of what is occurring. THIS IS WHERE CABLE, ISDN, ADSL COME INTO THERE OWN.

BTW Quit whinging you moaning git.

 

[Deady]

LPBs do have a slight advantage, not as great as most HPWs imagine it to be though. I remember being a HPW and thinking "grr LPBS, i bet they see me half an hour before i see them" etc

An analogue only CS server sounds fair to me, but you wont die less

Oh and what Halo Jones was going on about, human reactions - if someone shines a light in your eye it takes you ~250ms to respond with a blink.

Hmm im sure that info is useful for something.


[Edited by Misterdead on 16-03-01 at 00:33]

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by silk|away

And yes, ping is a big advantage. If I say you on the street and you pulled a gun out 2 sec before I saw it I would me dead. Same in CS!

Let's get this into some perspective shall we sonny? The figures you are bandying around like free candy are 1000 to 2000 ms advantage.

With the average LPB ping being 60 (avg between broadband and iSDN), and the average ping for a modemer being 160 (hey, I used to get 120ms on my 56k...get a decent NON 0800 ISP, pikes), that makes an advantage to the LPB of 100ms.

Hardly 1000 to 2000ms.

Also, conversly, if an HPW server is set up...it would be nice to have a few LPB servers, because believe me...we get fed up of your habitual whinging.

As it happens, I played better on 56k than I do on cable, but on cable I'm still getting 40+ kills per round.

</rant>

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by Misterdead
Oh and what Halo Jones was going on about, human reactions - if someone shines a light in your eye it takes you ~250ms to respond with a blink.

However the sooner that light starts to shine in your eyes the quicker the whole reaction time from the light turning on until the blink

Any how I have a test, as well as giving the HPWs a 120+ ping server the LPBs should also get one with the prediction turned off SERVER SIDE

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by halo_jones
I wonder! Within my clan we ahve several players who play over 200 in ping. They are not 'crap' either, and against LPBs they do stand I chance. I think you may need to reconsider just how NOT crap you actually are!
BTW Quit whinging you moaning git.

Very well said

 

[old.silk|away]

The idea for a modem only server is not to give us HPBs a better ping, its to have a good CS time by playing against people with the same ping.

Barry does it with Q2 so why not CS???

 

[Ch3tan]

well thread has taken off with very little flaming

okay I have not said what I think of a HPB server, now bear in mind I was a HPB until a moth ago so I know what I am talking about. I could get pings of 120 on 12 man servers during the wee hours of the morning, bring that up to 150-180 most of the time and 200 on a bad day.

Now in a server with no LPB's I have been accused of being an LPB by other modem users, simply because i used a good 24/7 isp (telewest, supports STAC compression ) and the BW dial up (also STAC) alot of HPB's use shit isp's that are overlogged and dont support STAC (very good for gaming). Now what will happen in a HPB only server is that thoose with good configs and ISP's will get the same shit most LPB's do. Ping times will be massively different and that will cause conflict. I think though why not try it, I definatley would like the moaning HPB's (not all of them) to have a choice. However an LPB server, an LPB server would work because our average pings would be similar no moaning about anything and only skill would count.

Within my clan we ahve several players who play over 200 in ping. They are not 'crap' either, and against LPBs they do stand I chance. I think you may need to reconsider just how NOT crap you actually are!

I agree our clan is half LPb and half HPB, we pick players on skill and our HPBs give the same as they get they never complain as they know it makes little difference at the end of the day its down to skill.

I would miss a mixture of HPB's and LPB's in servers, you miss out on some of the better players (a lot of the best players I know are HPB's) and it would make servers boring. As i said trial it, i dont think it will take off.

8Ball as a quake 3 player of the past myself and Elite Force (which I aint tried on my cable modem yet) I know its impossible for HPBs against LPBs. HL client and server side predictions do really make being a HPb advantageous in some situations, okay being an LPB has the advantage of a stable connection but in HL it all evens out, so yeah come back to CS bar the growing amount of assholes as the mod expands its fun.

Going back to what started this post, and a reply which has
already been said

Originally posted by silk|away
But you do spoil the game. I get an average ping of around 200, and against any pingers under 100 I aint got a chance. Im not writing this cos im crap

I'm afraid silk if you really dont stand a chance in thoose situations you need to practicse, it does sound like your not that good -this will change with practise and when you realise it aint your ping holding you down you may start improving. No offence intended.

Originally posted by silk|away
The idea for a modem only server is not to give us HPBs a better ping, its to have a good CS time by playing against people with the same ping.

Barry does it with Q2 so why not CS???

Well try it you wont have a better time playing agaisnt the HPB's i know, they will kill you harder and faster than you have ever been, maybe your mentality is that as long as they are killing you cause they have a modem thats ok? I doubt it will be for much longer, quake 2 has an HPB server cause quake 2's netcode is a load of poo, HL's once again aint that bad. So BW admins can we have a view on this, Deathace?

 

[*Kornholio*]

For the time being, CS seems to be cheat free due to the fact that the two patches have only been released in the last couple of days... I'm also sure that the first couple of cheats for the new versions will start to show there ugly faces pretty soon too 'coz there's always some prat with no skill (gaming wise) figuring out how to cheat.

Oh, and back to the topic, I'm a 56K'er, not by choice, but because I rent my place on a 6 month lease, and can't (won't) sign a 12 month contract for adsl / isdn, and there's no cable in my area

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by Embattle

One final point, if you want your own server because you want to cut down the challengers then fine but please don't use LPBs as an excuse......it really isn't as bad a problem as what some make out and is unlikely to resolve any real issues with your pings in this day and age.

Oh well guess I was right......your still gonna get beaten though and I no doubt they'll be some other excuse.

 

[old.Kurt_Angle]

Play some TFC m8, after there done with the ping and cheating claims, it moves on to you MUST play as that class otherwise im going to bitch at you for the entire game.

I did just that, i now only play as a soldier. it seems just about the only, im gona get loads of frags anyway class, you can play as without being bitched at

 

[*Kornholio*]

um, could we have ^ that in English plz m8

 

[Ch3tan]

what Kurt means I think, is that soldier is the only calss he can play as and still get loads of frags -without people bithcing at him.

 

[old.Anatoly]

Sort of like everyone moaning about AWP whores in CS



But different

 

[old.[MrW]TeDLooN]

Im not disagreeing with the fact that 56k llamas shouldnt get their own server.

Im disagreeing with the fact that the minority is always the group that complains!!!

I really cant see how ping affects skill, in CS the only difference between an LPB and a HPW is the timing. Its not ultra jerky or unplayable, just delayed. If you get used to this timing then you game will improve.

Blaming you ping on your crap skill is like playing a game of golf and blaming you clubs for your shit shot!!!

At the end of the day it is all down to the player not the equipment!!

p.s. Sorry for the crap Golf Example

 

[Meatballs]

1)If you aren't scoring top or high scores dont blame it on your ping. There are plenty of good quality HPBs, which can score well on servers. Before I got ISDN, I use to score highly as well and this was only after about 3 weeks of starting cs.

2)I think that computer spec matters more than being a LPB personally.

3)I really doubt there will ever be a HPB server, because:
A) There isn't the software to support it.
B) I doubt anyone would bother to write any.
C) AFAIK most people on CS servers atm are LPB so
it'd be a silly waste on resources.
D) If you are gonna make a HPB server then why isn't
there any all LPB servers so we dont have to put up
with HPBs whining

 

[Ch3tan]

Why I KNOW their wont be an LPB server.....

E) Last night on irc Deathace was quoted as saying "I aint doing a fucking HPB server", he also refused to preach to you HPB's about why it isnt unfair for you against an LPb and to explain HL net code and how to improve your ping, look guys its fair being an HPB you probably aint getting a HPB CS server at BW so get over it.

Oh yeah and HL does not allow any way of ensuring only HPB's could get into a server, so it would end up with some LPb#s joining just to piss ya off.

Someone said being a HPB gives you a slight delay? Yes very slight, and its compensated server side by the HL net
code

BTW interestingly enough I went on a BW server last night (3am) and got berated for my 50 ping by someone wiht a 170 ping (nice for a modem), every time I killed him he said damn LPB how did I stand a chance etc etc. Now we were playing the new office he was a CT i was a T he had no idea he was wondering round ignoring covering himself, so killing him was no challenge. People I hope you all read this, if your shit at CS dont blame the LPB, I'm not perfect far from it, but I hold my own and can spot bad play when i see it.

/me off to start a thread "Why HPB's should be banned, because I am sick of getting shot round corners and having magic bullets follow me"

 

[Embattle]

Told ya that it wouldn't happen

 

[old.Carl1ng]

Lo all

I am, and the way BT are going will allways be a HPW
On a good day I can give most LPB a good game.

HPW only server nooooooo, what if the LPB want a server just for them. I will be forced to play on A HPW server only all the time (lol no thank you). Long live servers that dont discriminate.

 

[old.silk|away]

Then tell me WHY LPBs will never put fake lag on em??????

And dont say faklag is shit cos its not its realistic!

 

[Embattle]

Its shit....correct me if I'm wrong but you're and HPW any way so how would you truely know?

Not that I would see the point in doing it since I've paid for the better connection.

 

[old.silk|away]

Ive played CS on a fast connection over the net before.

How satisfying can it be to get 30 kills but know its only ya ping??!?!!?!???!?!

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by silk|away
Ive played CS on a fast connection over the net before.

How satisfying can it be to get 30 kills but know its only ya ping??!?!!?!???!?!

And I play with a fast connection every night.

Nice to see that your past arguments crumble because you make stupid comments, like this one, that you can't and won't be able to prove and have no basis for apart from what I can only assume is the fact you just play crap and are looking to blame LPBs

 

[granny]

Originally posted by silk|away
How satisfying can it be to get 30 kills but know its only ya ping??!?!!?!???!?!

What a lot of nonsense you're coming out with silk. Play on the BW servers for a while - there's plenty of LPB's who are, frankly, crap. And there's also enough HPB's who excel to make a mockery of your argument that "ping is everything".

Yes, it's harder on a modem and yes, there's less modemmers who can consistently be the top scorer than LPB's but I think the main reason for that is that the best players have been playing games of some kind for a long time and most people (who can) who are online-gaming addicts eventually shell out for ISDN/DSL/CM/etc.

I'm afraid that if you are playing CS (or anything else) and blaming your poor performance solely on your connection then you are deluding yourself. Half-Life has probably the most HPB-friendly netcode of any online game nowadays. Try using the BW dialup on BW servers - it's possible to get at least a sub-150 ping with little or no packet-loss and with that kind of quality connection you have absolutely no reason to blame your modem for you being, well, shite.

 

[old.El Gato]

Time gentlemen, please.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't ping times measured in milliseconds?

ie a ping of 200 is equal to a delay of 0.2s

And a ping is the time it takes to send info to the server and back again.

Therefore if an LBP has a ping of 30 then the delay the HPW is experiencing minus the delay of the HPB is 0.17s

Surely if that affects your game so much then you can't that good to begin with.

(FYI I'm on Cable and I still regularly get killed by HPW)

So why do people in this thread keep talking about a 2sec delay? That's a whole order of magnitude out!

If I'm wrong then I'm sure someone with a better understanding of TCP/IP and netcode will correct (ie flame) me.

 

[*Kornholio*]

Originally posted by silk|away
Ive played CS on a fast connection over the net before.

How satisfying can it be to get 30 kills but know its only ya ping??!?!!?!???!?!

 

[old.Kurt_Angle]

For me quake 2 had the best netcode for 56k players, if you have a good external and know how to set it up, along with a decent isp, pings of 100-150 be yours, in fact you can do better, and the game is easy to play on a modem too. HL may have prediction code, but imho it's utter crap, it seems to do what the hell it wants, sometimes you kill, sometimes you get killed, it's complete random luck. Btw my ping is averaging 40-70 atm

 

[Meatballs]

El Gato yes the ping is in milliseconds. A 2 second delay would mean a 2000 ping.

and silk, stop whinging about people being better than you, go play the game get good, and you will realise what crap you're talking.



[Edited by Meatballs on 17-03-01 at 13:33]

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by silk|away
Ive played CS on a fast connection over the net before.

How satisfying can it be to get 30 kills but know its only ya ping??!?!!?!???!?!

I think this answers everyones questions...you're just fucking shit, try playing Q3 instead

 

[Ch3tan]

Originally posted by silk|away
Then tell me WHY LPBs will never put fake lag on em??????

And dont say faklag is shit cos its not its realistic!

Fakelag is shit, main problem modem users have is packet loss or shit isp's, if us LPB's put on fakelag we would still have a more stable connection but with HL netcode letting us shoot YOU round corners.

Oh yeah and the main reason that we would not use fakelag, VALVE REMOVED FAKELAG IN HL 1.1.0.6. You want to know why? Fakelag is used by a lot of Cs cheats out there, so you would probably accuse us of cheating when us LPB's with fakelag still killed you. Anyway it dont matter cause its not in the game anymore.

WE would still also be more skilled than you, silk I have never seen you in a server I have seen every other poster in this thread in servers before and they are very good CS players. You are obviously not, simply by the comments you make, like the one that started this thread:

Originally posted by silk|away
Ok first things first, dont flame me. All you LPBs, you pay to be an LPB so fair enough. But you do spoil the game. I get an average ping of around 200, and against any pingers under 100 I aint got a chance. Im not writing this cos im crap, Im just losing heart in a game I so dearly love.
Also a lot of LPBs are shit, and it is there ping, notice how very few LPBs will put fakelag on?
Anyway an ideea. Barrysworld, can we try something, can we have at least ONE sevrer running which doesnt let 100- players play on, as there are loads of us out there who are tearing our hair out because our skills can not match players who see you a second or 2 before anyone else!

Ideas comments?

Cheers guys

Silk

You asked state some wild things,
1)LPB's see you 2 seconds before anyone else? What a load of shit, if anything we would see you maybe 50-100 milliseconds before you saw us, also the HL netcode would count your shots and health loss from the moment you saw us, not us you.
2)You say your not shit at Cs yet you rekon that modem users have no chance when the difference in ping is more than 100 milliseconds? Think again sonny practise more and stop deluding yourself.
3)A lot of LPB's are shit? Yes they are and this shows by their scores, how the fuck do you justify a 0.1 second advantage (which HL negates anyway) giving a shit player the ability to finish top? Think again boy, i mean really, really think about what you wrote its a wild unfounded statement.

At the end of your post you ask for comments or suggestions. We gave you some, now its obvious you really dont know what you are talking about whe it comes to ping times or HL net code -so why do you persist to say things like

Originally posted by silk|away
Ive played CS on a fast connection over the net before.

How satisfying can it be to get 30 kills but know its only ya ping??!?!!?!???!?!

I have tried to explain without flaming you, and so have others but you dont seem to read them, or try to understand that are view are based on facts and are true. If you ask for views and suggestions then dont only expect people to support your (in this case incorrect and unkowledgeable) view.

Go away do some research and if you manage to prove, with facts that what you say is correct I will except it, but if you are going to continue to make unfounded pointless attacks on LPB's and frankly talk shit dont bother posting in the forum.

Oh and BTW please feel free to take on any of us, find me in BW irc channel (#barrysworld) and challenge me. Oh if you feel that its simply my cable modem that makes me whoop you, challenge Kornholio, or Carl1ng surely against a fellow HPB and you not being shit you would have a fair chance to beat him?

Above is an example of a good argument, you may want to learn how to do this before coming back here silk.

[Edited by Ch3tan on 17-03-01 at 19:27]