Film Looper.

[old.Tohtori]

Just like green lantern is a superhero movie. It doesn't have to be good to fit the mold.

Disclaimer; i didn't find green lantern to be -that- sh*t.

 

[Scouse]

I thought Green Lantern was OK too. Better than the crits it received.

Science fiction is particular though - it has to be scientifically plausible. Without that then it's not science fiction. It's just fiction.

 

[dysfunction]

http://screenrant.com/looper-ending-explanation-time-travel-spoilers/

 

[DaGaffer]

http://screenrant.com/looper-ending-explanation-time-travel-spoilers/

Exactly what I was getting at. There are really two main time travel options that have internal consistency, but Looper, like a lot of others, mixes them together, which destroys the logic of the story. And its not like it can't be done properly and still be entertaining; 12 Monkeys proves that, as does Primer, and surprisingly, Source Code.

NB. I give a free pass to time travel comedy because the comedy has to trump the logic, but even there, Futurama shows you can do it right with a bit of effort.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Science fiction is particular though - it has to be scientifically plausible. Without that then it's not science fiction. It's just fiction.

Yeap, which is funny since ironman, batman and even thor(to name afew) are sci-fi

 

[Ch3tan]

No they are comic book / super hero... your are already ignoring anything remotely based on science by accepting the superpowers

 

[old.Tohtori]

No they are comic book / super hero... your are already ignoring anything remotely based on science by accepting the superpowers

So ironmans superpower is...?

 

[Raven]

Ironman doesn't have super powers, neither does batman.

However, their suits/equipment are sort of plausible.

Not that it really matters, it's entertainment.

 

[DaGaffer]

So ironmans superpower is...?

It doesn't matter because the films exist in a universe that contains super-powers.

You can make a case for the Nolan Batman films being.SF because he went to great lengths to divorce the films from the DC Universe. Can't do that with Iron Man and most comic book films are no more science fiction than Clash of The Titans is. They're fantasies.

 

[Cerb]

No. Won't. Can't. It always amazes me how people will forgive bad writing in film that they'd never forgive in a book, because "ooh pretty". And explosions.

I've been trying to stay out of this but I have to respond to that statement...at least in relation to this film. A plot hole in a move does not always equal bad writing. The very fact that when they sit down in the diner they blow it off as unimportant tells you that the filmmaker wasn't going for accuracy, he was going for tonal consistency (which is far more important) which he nails.

The best example of this I've heard of is the T-Rex scene in Jurassic Park....go back and watch that scene and actually pay attention to the geography of the scene...it's bonkers...but it doesn't matter because Spielberg owns the tone and makes it so visceral that you aren't even paying attention to where this huge drop suddenly came from. In my opinion Rian Johnson nails the parts of the film he's trying to nail and that's what's important.

If you can't get into the spirit of the thing because you can't look past that then I don't know what to tell you. I mean why do they send the men back to loopers and not just to the middle of the Atlantic?

Because then there wouldn't be a movie. And that is the answer to most plot hole arguments.

 

[Raven]

I always ask the wife that in Dr Who, why doesn't he just go back an hour or so before whatever event happens. Or when stuff starts to go wrong why doesn't he just jump into his tardis and go back a bit and sort it out.

Would make an (even more) crap program.

 

[DaGaffer]

I've been trying to stay out of this but I have to respond to that statement...at least in relation to this film. A plot hole in a move does not always equal bad writing. The very fact that when they sit down in the diner they blow it off as unimportant tells you that the filmmaker wasn't going for accuracy, he was going for tonal consistency (which is far more important) which he nails.

The best example of this I've heard of is the T-Rex scene in Jurassic Park....go back and watch that scene and actually pay attention to the geography of the scene...it's bonkers...but it doesn't matter because Spielberg owns the tone and makes it so visceral that you aren't even paying attention to where this huge drop suddenly came from. In my opinion Rian Johnson nails the parts of the film he's trying to nail and that's what's important.

If you can't get into the spirit of the thing because you can't look past that then I don't know what to tell you. I mean why do they send the men back to loopers and not just to the middle of the Atlantic?

Because then there wouldn't be a movie. And that is the answer to most plot hole arguments.

And my counter to that is, no there shouldn't have been a movie because its core concept is rubbish; actually most of its concepts are rubbish; the mechanics of time travel, the whole looper idea in the first place (which the assassins in the future conveniently ignore when it suits them, even though its the whole point of the movie) is rubbish, and the telekinesis bit is rubbish as well. What exactly was the director trying to "nail"?

 

[dysfunction]

Why did you even watch it then if you thought the core concept was rubbish?

I think you are now just talking bollocks DaGaffer.

 

[DaGaffer]

Why did you even watch it then if you thought the core concept was rubbish?

I think you are now just talking bollocks DaGaffer.

Strangely I hadn't read the script before I sat down to watch it. I wasn't aware that was a requirement.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It doesn't matter because the films exist in a universe that contains super-powers.

You can make a case for the Nolan Batman films being.SF because he went to great lengths to divorce the films from the DC Universe. Can't do that with Iron Man and most comic book films are no more science fiction than Clash of The Titans is. They're fantasies.

Then we should take out pretty much everything considered sci-fi, such as star trek. And nolans batverse still has superman running around as well, otherwise the avengers universe is equally plausible.

 

[DaGaffer]

Then we should take out pretty much everything considered sci-fi, such as star trek. And nolans batverse still has superman running around as well, otherwise the avengers universe is equally plausible.

I do take out Star Trek and especially Star Wars. "Space Opera" is the term used in literature. But its all a kind of continuum from hard sci-fi at one end (which is extremely rare in film; the last really good Hard Sci-Fi movie I've seen is probably Moon), to sparkly vampires and Hobbits at the other. If Trek and Wars are in the middle, Trek is slightly towards Hard sci-fi, Wars is slightly towards Fantasy; it was actually more towards fantasy until The Beard decided to rationalise the Force with Midiclorians. Which went well.

And who says Nolan's Batverse has Superman in it? Has that been stated anywhere?

 

[dysfunction]

Strangely I hadn't read the script before I sat down to watch it. I wasn't aware that was a requirement.

The film concept could easily be found out by reading the synopsis of the film or an initial review....

No need for the script.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And who says Nolan's Batverse has Superman in it? Has that been stated anywhere?

Just what i was saying, has it been stated that the avengers universe has magic in it? If the sci-fi rule is "it has to be sci possible" then avengers fit.

If you want to however talk hard sci-fi and limp sci-fi etc hipster terms then different bag of tea.

 

[DaGaffer]

Just what i was saying, has it been stated that the avengers universe has magic in it? If the sci-fi rule is "it has to be sci possible" then avengers fit.

If you want to however talk hard sci-fi and limp sci-fi etc hipster terms then different bag of tea.

Hmm, I think saying "ooh it was gamma rays" doesn't really cut it when describing a giant green rage monster that defies the laws of thermodynamics. Marvel try and wrap all their heroes in "science" (metagenes, radioactive spiders, cosmic rays, super-soldier serums, "sufficiently advanced technology" etc.) but that doesn't really mean it is.

Hard Sci-Fi really isn't a hipster term; its been around since long before you (or I) was born.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yea that's where the problem starts really. Gene manipulation -could- produce a green rage monster, or zombies, or telekinesis, and wolverine style adamantium skeleton lizard gene healing(so fitting in the sci-fi ruleset), but the plausability of such tech, or the years(or decades) of science to get there might take suspension of disbelief too far.

 

[Edmond]

here you go


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwDbqhl_p3g

 

[old.user4556]

Here's what I think: it was a shit film.

The rest of you are a bunch of over analysing, must-have-the-last-word Rainman fucktards.

 

[Olgaline]

There is nothing wrong with noticing anormalities/faults! - as long as you
A: keep to your self during the movie
B: don't let it influence the movies entertainment value

 

[Lamp]

Has anything on a par with Event Horizon come out in the last 6 years?

That was science fiction.

(Not the Green Gay Lantern, which fits into the [ superhero / comic / go-and-see-once-and-forget-about-it ] category)

 

[dysfunction]

Has anything on a par with Event Horizon come out in the last 6 years?

That was science fiction.

What?? Event Horizen was crap so anything is better than that.
Secondly it can't be pure Sci Fi according to "the rules" as it's has some sort of devil thing on board which is not scientifically plausable...

 

[Ch3tan]

It's not a devil, it's the captain of the first ship. He's gone insane.

 

[Raven]

No it isn't. It's an evil presence that wants the ship to return to the chaos dimension (hell) The original crew went through the black hole and went mad and then killed each other, the same presence is what causes the hallucinations and then takes over Sam Neil (whatever his character name is!). While it is never stated that it is a devil or hell, it is implied.

 

[dysfunction]

http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/r_event.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Horizon_(film)

 

[Scouse]

Yeap, which is funny since ironman, batman and even thor(to name afew) are sci-fi

Trololololol

 

[Ch3tan]

Doh! I stand corrected.