News Lockerbie

[rynnor]

Time always tells in these things - when a case gets weaker and weaker over the years as his has done you come to the conclusion that the mans not guilty (certainly not in any provable beyond reasonable doubt sense).

He was inside because they had to have someone and possibly because the trail may have lead somewhere the CIA didnt want it to go if it hadnt stopped at him.

He has 100% done a deal to get out so that on his death the whole thing is conveniently wrapped up...

 

[old.user4556]

My own conspiracy theory is that he dropped the appeal and they let him get the fuck out before he embarrassingly exposed what we don't know.

Hilary Clinton also needs to stfu and but out, but then that's hypocritical given the interfering we do on international affairs.

 

[Trem]

Once again the Daily Mash pretty much sums it up for me -

The Daily Mash

 

[ford prefect]

He......killed.....270.....people!

What the fuck does he care about civilization, did he care about fairness or compassion when he slaughtered all those people? Did he think it was the civil thing to do?

Even if that is true, does it then follow that we as a society shouldn't think about fairness or compassion? Thankfully we live in an almost free society where the televisual appeal of capital punishment shouldn't be necessary to give us a sense of justice. Keeping a dying man (or woman) incarcerated amounts to very much the same thing.

 

[DaGaffer]

Even if that is true, does it then follow that we as a society shouldn't think about fairness or compassion? Thankfully we live in an almost free society where the televisual appeal of capital punishment shouldn't be necessary to give us a sense of justice. Keeping a dying man (or woman) incarcerated amounts to very much the same thing.

No it doesn't. It amounts to delivering on a promise to the victims and their families. Life should mean life. As I said before, if it is felt the case is unsafe, have a new trial. If he croaks halfway through, c'est la vie.

 

[nath]

No it doesn't. It amounts to delivering on a promise to the victims and their families. Life should mean life. As I said before, if it is felt the case is unsafe, have a new trial. If he croaks halfway through, c'est la vie.

Well that's easy for you to say. If he is innocent and it's the choice of shutting up and taking the freedom and dying with family rather than fighting it to the very end and knowing he'll most likely die before an outcome, I don't think it's that easy a decision.

 

[Wij]

I don't know the details so I may be talking shit but isn't it a bit weird that he was the only person convicted ? There must have been loads involved. It all stinks of a nice little deal with Libya imo.

 

[Chilly]

he just got a heroes welcome arriving back home. Personally, I agree with his release but it's a bit much that he was given such a welcome. He should have been sent home with a nurse and 50 quid to buy potatoes.

 

[Damini]

I don't really see how the family benefits from at all. It doesn't bring back the people they have lost and the whole eye for an eye mentality doesn't make the world a fairer and more just place to be does it? I can't think of one example where that kind of justice has served to improve civilization.

I'll tell you how it improves civilisation. The law is cruel, to prevent its citizens having to be. If something happened to my family, to someone I loved, and I felt there wasn't going to be justice, I would become the most terrifying person you've ever known. It would consume me, and I would do anything to get revenge. I would dedicate my life to becoming a monster.

I know some people offer compassion, and forgiveness, and tow the Christian line when it comes to people that have wronged them.

I am not one of those people.

The law exists to stop people like me having to become the very criminals we loathe.

 

[Calaen]

It's a difficult situation, I have serious doubts about his actual conviction. And the governemnt taking the backlash by letting him free now is nothing compared to his appeal being granted and the whole case being ripped apart.

Every man and there dog who's case was badly handled would be granted appeals based on this case being faked to get a bad guy to blame.

It's probably better that we never know the truth that the appeal would have found.

 

[Ctuchik]

He......killed.....270.....people!

did he? from what i understand the evidence against him were dodgy at best.

 

[tierk]

He is about as guilty as these guys where....

Guildford Four and Maguire Seven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MYstIC G]

Until they overturn the verdict, anyone saying he's not guilty has no point to make. Basically, prove it or stfu.

 

[tierk]

Until they overturn the verdict, anyone saying he's not guilty has no point to make. Basically, prove it or stfu.

Funny how he is forced to stop his appeal process which would have done just that or he could spend the rest of his life - what is left of it - in jail for a crime he didnt commit.

Read the following Tam Dalyell: Lockerbie papers may hide Faustian pact of US and Iran - Scotsman.com News

and then try and understand that everything is not what it seems in this case.

 

[MYstIC G]

Well, I read that, it's shit and a very good example of "paper doesn't refuse ink" imho. Opinionated tripe. The only part of any merit is the sentence "There is a danger now that we will never know the truth about what happened." but then you can apply that to everything done by Government, everywhere.

Everyone can talk a good show and speculate as they wish. Bottom line however is that the conviction stands (rightly or wrongly) and since it has never been overturned his arse should be in jail, end of.

 

[tierk]

Opinionated tripe.......

I assume that you have no idea who Tam Dalyell is, read and learn, (Tam Dalyell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) your dismissal of this article as "opinionated tripe" is just way off the mark.

If you had any inkling about the full background behind this case (Lockerbie) and all the the things that lead up to it being blown out of the sky, you would maybe be better placed to express an opinion that would have any sort of validity.

Hugh Miles: Lockerbie: was it Iran? Syria? All I know is, it wasn't the man in prison - Commentators, Opinion - The Independent

He will never have a chance of a retrial or have his conviction overturned any time soon, i quote from the article linked above .......

"The Crown and the prosecution are using every delaying tactic in the book to close off every route available to Megrahi except prisoner transfer, as this means he has to abandon his appeal," commented Professor Robert Black QC, the Scottish lawyer who was the architect of the original trial who feels partly responsible for the miscarriage that occurred. "It is an absolute disgrace. It was 27 June 2007 when the SCCRC released its report and sent its case back to the criminal appeal court, and here we are 18 months later and the Crown has still not handed over all of the material that the law requires it to hand over and it is still making every objection conceivable."

Please note the bits that are in BOLD, Underlined and Italics - i have also increased the size of the print as well incase you want to dismiss this article as trip as well.

Get the picture?

 

[MYstIC G]

First article says things that begin with "In my experience", "In my view", ergo opinionated. Oh and for what it's worth, that wikipedia article just made me think "hmm... £8k for book shelves, I wonder what piece of medical equipment that could of paid for".

Secondly yes, I do "get the picture". You are now acting like a twat. More specifically one of those "shouty" twats, who when anyone doesn't agree with what they are saying, things it's big, clever and correct to repeat the point more loudly, in a sort of "the louder I am the more correct I am" manner. Either be sensible, you know... "make a point"... "make a counterpoint" or frankly just fuck off.

 

[Raven]

Isn't that just like half the people in general though?

 

[MYstIC G]

Possibly, you'd have to conduct a study

 

[tierk]

First article says things that begin with "In my experience", "In my view", ergo opinionated.

He is certainly far better informed and educated, on a whole host of subjects, to offer an educated opinion far superior to anything than you would be capable of ever offering up.

Secondly yes, I do "get the picture". You are now acting like a twat. More specifically one of those "shouty" twats, who when anyone doesn't agree with what they are saying, things it's big, clever and correct to repeat the point more loudly, in a sort of "the louder I am the more correct I am" manner. Either be sensible, you know... "make a point"... "make a counterpoint" or frankly just fuck off.

The only person on this thread that is being a shouty twat, as far as i can see is you and quite frankly telling someone that they should either make a counter point or fuck off while offering up nothing in the first place is a bit rich dont you think? Yoru first post seemed to be a bit OTT as well, telling me? to stfu until the guys proven innocent or his sentence is overturned?

Why dont you turn down the volume in your own posts before accusing others of being a twat and if dont like reading posts rubbishing what you are saying then try to find out some basic information first before firing off like Rambo on crack.

 

[old.user4556]

This is insane.

G - how can you say that it only someone's opinion when the judges made decisions based on their opinions and views on the evidence presented, evidence that was circumstantial and unreliable at the time. Over time, that evidence grew to be glaringly pathetic and it was clear to everyone that the conviction was unsafe. The independent UN observer of the trial, who was present throughout the proceedings commented that the conviction was a "spectacular miscarriage of justice". The key witness and pivotal evidence from the Maltese shop owner was paid $2mil to testify against Megrahi - but that never came out at the time.

So they put him in jail based on evidence given by a bribed old man. Well rape me in the face.

This isn't about Megrahi anymore, this is about the fucking hopelessness of the trial; it could be the guy from the butcher shop for all I care that was convicted.

 

[MYstIC G]

Tierk are you Tam Dalyell's son or something? Please can you teach me how to use bold, italic, underline, etc. so that I can write in such an intelligent manner as you. Pretty please.

From one G to another, if its so "fucking hopeless" so to speak, it should be undone, which was the point I was making. He's either guilty (which he is at present) or he's not (which you say he shouldn't be). Without that being button holed, the rest is bullshit.

 

[old.user4556]

Well I guess we won't get that now.

 

[tierk]

Tierk are you Tam Dalyell's son or something? Please can you teach me how to use bold, italic, underline, etc. so that I can write in such an intelligent manner as you. Pretty please.

Ooo what a snappy come back seriously that hurt!!!

Anyway i wouldnt worry too much about figuring out how to underline text, italics or making it bold but i would work on trying to up the level on your posting style beyond stfu you mouthy twat. Maybe you wont sound like such a donut.

 

[Embattle]

I don't like the capital punishment but I totally agree with life should mean life, now some may try to claim it would of been capital punishment leaving him in prison with his illness but sorry I don't buy that weak arguement either.

He currently is and will probably remain guilty, his latest court action may of gone his way but previous ones hadn't and the reality is what is done can only be undone in those courts and not newspapers or in the wishy-washy world of personal opinions formed from them and other tripe.

PS tierk you aren't doing yourself any favours.

 

[tierk]

I don't like the capital punishment but I totally agree with life should mean life, now some may try to claim it would of been capital punishment leaving him in prison with his illness but sorry I don't buy that weak arguement either.

He currently is and will probably remain guilty, his latest court action may of gone his way but previous ones hadn't and the reality is what is done can only be undone in those courts and not newspapers or in the wishy-washy world of personal opinions formed from them and other tripe.

PS tierk you aren't doing yourself any favours.

Quite frankly i find the entire episode hypocritcal. It is pretty clear the guy has been fitted up, he has been waiting for 18 months to get his 2nd appeal, which was /is not forthcoming because it is abundantly clear that the orignal sentence wouldnt stand up to any sort of closer scrutiny.

It is not wishy washy public opinion that is problem but rather peoples refusal to see what this whole thing is about, covering ass. They dont want him to have his day in court because his innocense opens up the entire issue of who did blow the plane up and why.

As for not doing myself any favours, i am not the one telling people to stfu or calling them twats because i dont agree with them.

 

[Damini]

It's two different arguments.

Should someone serving a long sentence be released early if they are terminally ill, on compassionate grounds?

Should this man have been in prison in the first place?

This is why this thread is rubbish. It's all at cross purposes.

 

[Milkshake]

As a counter-argument, why didn't we torture al-Megrahi? I mean, if he was such a bad man then was losing time off his life enough? Perhaps he should have lived the rest of his days in pain and fear?

Or is that just TOO against the tenants of compassion and mercy that differs social democracies like the UK with authoritarian regimes like Libya?

 

[old.user4556]

.

this is why this thread is rubbish. It's all at cross purposes.

i'm not sure what this post was meant to achieve, maybe some good old fashioned fh arguing .

 

[Damini]

Although, I must say, on a tangent, I've found the media coverage of this a bit disturbing. Even on the allegedly nuetral BBC, he was described coming home like a "decorated soldier". The crowds are skewed to be celebrating the hero, but nobody in the crowd is interviewed, no banners are shown, and Scottish flags are flying? What if they are celebrating because they think he is innocent? If they were celebrating the loss of Scottish life, why show the scottish flags?

[conspiracy theory] This whole event feels like someone is tugging some very odd strings behind the scenes, skewing the tv in a specific way towards some objective I haven't worked out yet. [/conspiracy theory]