Advice Linux Sysadmin jobs

[Cadelin]

I am aware there are quite a few people who work in computing on this forum (unsurprsingly).

I work in research and we run many different systems/service in order to carry out our work. The problem we are finding is that we simply cannot recuit standard Linux Sysadmins anymore. When we put out an advert we get responses, and the CVs look reasonable, but when they come for interview they are shockingly bad.

Example, one candidate claimed to have 8 years experience of being a linux sysadmin. We had a really simple bash script as part of the interview with an if statement and for loop in it. He needed heavy prompting to explain what an if statement was and didn't understand what a for loop was at all. He then said he didn't really understand perl and was much better at bash which he wrote all his scripts in.... He wasn't even the worst candidate we interviewed....

Job requirements we advertise are:
degree or equivalent experience
2 years Linux sysadmin experience
There are some standard requirements on communication skills and being able to work in a team etc.
There are a bunch of desirables, but we purposeful make them broad so that it shouldn't be hard to meet a few of them (e.g. experience with monitoring tools, experience working in a 24/7 production environment, experience with large scale storage services, experience with configuration management systems etc).

Salary is from £32k and because its public sector it has a good pension and benefits with it. These are open ended jobs so about the best job security you can get. The money is certainly not fantastic epecially given Oxfordshire is quite expensive, but it doesn't seem that out of line with junior sysadmin roles in the commerical sector. We have plenty of scientists to develop crazy new stuff, we just need some reliable people that don't need months of training to be useful and can keep systems running.

Any idea what we are doing so wrong?

Note: I am not just relying on FH advice here, we are paying various recuitment consultants to understand why it isn't working but I figured someone might have a random piece of insight that is overlooked.

Note 2: We have a really popular graduate training scheme for those fresh out of university, but within a few years most of them will be doing the complex stuff.

 

[SilverHood]

You have a couple of options really:
1. Raid the Indian consultancies for their junior to mid level employees, TCS, HCL, Laser, Infosys, etc. Either the ones placed in London, or visa sponsor the ones from India.
2. Advertise for the job in Eastern Europe. Think Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Ukraine, etc, or the Baltics.
3. Use a consultancy service like FDM Group, Hatstand, M Three, etc.

Hiring natives for Unix SysAdmin roles seemed to be impossible when I worked at major European banks. It was such a headache that they ended up paying a boatload of money for HP to provide SysAdmin coverage. Where they got the people... Well, see points 1 and 2

 

[Cadelin]

1. For these relative straight forward jobs its hard to get visas for work (the pay level doesn't qualify it and there isn't a research element). If I need someone with a PhD, its no problem to recuit from anywhere in the world, but for this they basically have to be an EU national. The commerical sector steals our good people all the time (normally by tripling their salary), I am not sure how effective it would be to try stealing them back.

2. Good point, I think it gets advertised through sites/agencies with a UK focus.

3. Don't have money for things like that. Consultancy doesn't really work in research as the types of setup we have are frequently unique (and normally overly complex).

I work in research, the work place is multi-national... I really don't care about them being native. I just don't want to continue wasting time interviewing utter rubbish. All our recent new employees have been Greek (as they have no money to support research).

Thanks.

 

[Scouse]

Did you put "must have strong scripting skills" in the ad?

Most sysadmins go to Google and figure out what they need from there. HP staff will be minimum wage monkeys who'll most likely be worse than whoever you hire and the Indians are great at pasding exams but can't apply their good skills sensibly.

If you require really good scripting skills (or even basic ones) it must be explicit in the ad.

 

[Gwadien]

If you require really good scripting skills (or even basic ones) it must be explicit in the ad.

I'd imagine someone who has really good scripting skills would expect more than £32k, and probably gets loads more in the private sector?

 

[Moriath]

32k is cheap. No wonder you are getting dross tbh

 

[Cadelin]

I'd imagine someone who has really good scripting skills would expect more than £32k, and probably gets loads more in the private sector?

We are not expecting really good scripting skills. This is pretty much the most junior full time position. The script in question had comments in it to explain what it did and we never expected people to struggle to understand it. The aim was to ask more nuanced questions about it. We tried it on various non-computing people and they could explain what it did.

32k is cheap. No wonder you are getting dross tbh

What would you expect for this role?

Also, 32k is still comfortably above average salary, I can expect something for that. What requirement is too high? Being able to use a keyboard and not being a complete liability doesn't qualify you for £30k+ salary.

 

[Moriath]

What part of the country? I am assuming 40k ish to be competing with the private sector pretty easy. Maybe more in London.

Though you say its junior so i would expect to get training into the job and not come as a finished article if its a junior role. If its that junior then probably to high and as i say train in to the standard you need.

 

[Cadelin]

Oxfordshire.

There is a graduate scheme which takes people fresh out of university and this has fantastic quality applicants.

We are basically looking for somebody that has had some experience of this type of work place environment. Who can function independently and therefore doesn't act as a major management time sync. They won't be given anything critical to do for 3 - 6 months because we understand they need to be trained up.

 

[Moriath]

Ok seems reasonable with the salary described like that then.

I guess all the kidz like doze. Lol

 

[Ormorof]

Is Perl even taught anymore?

All our linux scripts are done with Python, windows with PowerShell and web stuff with Groovy

 

[MYstIC G]

I am aware there are quite a few people who work in computing on this forum (unsurprsingly).

I work in research and we run many different systems/service in order to carry out our work. The problem we are finding is that we simply cannot recuit standard Linux Sysadmins anymore. When we put out an advert we get responses, and the CVs look reasonable, but when they come for interview they are shockingly bad.

Example, one candidate claimed to have 8 years experience of being a linux sysadmin. We had a really simple bash script as part of the interview with an if statement and for loop in it. He needed heavy prompting to explain what an if statement was and didn't understand what a for loop was at all. He then said he didn't really understand perl and was much better at bash which he wrote all his scripts in.... He wasn't even the worst candidate we interviewed....

Job requirements we advertise are:
degree or equivalent experience
2 years Linux sysadmin experience
There are some standard requirements on communication skills and being able to work in a team etc.
There are a bunch of desirables, but we purposeful make them broad so that it shouldn't be hard to meet a few of them (e.g. experience with monitoring tools, experience working in a 24/7 production environment, experience with large scale storage services, experience with configuration management systems etc).

Salary is from £32k and because its public sector it has a good pension and benefits with it. These are open ended jobs so about the best job security you can get. The money is certainly not fantastic epecially given Oxfordshire is quite expensive, but it doesn't seem that out of line with junior sysadmin roles in the commerical sector. We have plenty of scientists to develop crazy new stuff, we just need some reliable people that don't need months of training to be useful and can keep systems running.

Any idea what we are doing so wrong?

Note: I am not just relying on FH advice here, we are paying various recuitment consultants to understand why it isn't working but I figured someone might have a random piece of insight that is overlooked.

Note 2: We have a really popular graduate training scheme for those fresh out of university, but within a few years most of them will be doing the complex stuff.

Seems like you've got a role you expect someone to fill who has no career aspirations, based on on the comments about the training scheme. That's always going to be a tough sell especially with a pants salary.

 

[Cadelin]

Seems like you've got a role you expect someone to fill who has no career aspirations, based on on the comments about the training scheme. That's always going to be a tough sell especially with a pants salary.

I think you are right that this is the impression we are giving. However, if you have caarer aspirations, we are probably one of the best places to work. You will get to work on some state of the art research systems and actually be able to do meaningful things to them. If you are good, you won't held back.

I know people who have left, tripled (or more) their salary but are totally bored, because they are now looking after a service for a bank that expects 99.999% availability and every change needs to be signed of by a manager.

Its clear from interviewing people that not many people look past the salary the job offers. Flexible working conditions, generous parental allowance, pension, foreign travel etc don't matter. I don't know how I can sell this stuff will look awesome on your CV in a few years.

 

[Moriath]

I think you are right that this is the impression we are giving. However, if you have caarer aspirations, we are probably one of the best places to work. You will get to work on some state of the art research systems and actually be able to do meaningful things to them. If you are good, you won't held back.

I know people who have left, tripled (or more) their salary but are totally bored, because they are now looking after a service for a bank that expects 99.999% availability and every change needs to be signed of by a manager.

Its clear from interviewing people that not many people look past the salary the job offers. Flexible working conditions, generous parental allowance, pension, foreign travel etc don't matter. I don't know how I can sell this stuff will look awesome on your CV in a few years.

I think you are in the middle. From initial things you werent selling as a learning post. Which i would probably put at a low salary than you are showing but bigging the opportunities to improve and grow.

But from the description you are wanting someone who can already do the job from day one. Which will be later in their career and after a bit higher salary as they wont be looking for so many training, incentives but more the money.

Decide where you are focusing at the moment you are kinda in the middle.